Posting requirement question.

[Worriedman]

Having spent to date over $1,000.00 for "Proper Posting" signs for my property to keep trespassers off my farm, I am wondering if this new Restaurant Carry Bill does not give me some relief?

If a circle with a slash through a handgun is considered sufficient for a business to be legal in posting against HCP carry, why would it not be OK to draw a circle with a slash through a stick man tacked up at proper intervals? Would that be good enough for prosecution of a trespasser on my farm?

Edited May 4, 2010 by Worriedman

[Guest Bronker]

Having spent to date over $1,000.00 for "Proper Posting" signs for my property to keep trespassers off my farm, I am wondering if this new Restaurant Carry Bill does not give me some relief?

If a circle with a slash through a handgun is considered sufficient for a business to be legal in posting against HCP carry, why would it not be OK to draw a circle with a slash through a stick man and that be good enough for prosecution of a trespasser on my farm?

Seems like it. I hate a trespasser, as much as I hate the lawdogs that won't help me enforce the laws already on the books.

[Pain103]

Seems like it. I hate a trespasser, as much as I hate the lawdogs that won't help me enforce the laws already on the books.

What exactly do you expect? Trespassing is a misdemeanor in TN. Due to that fact you either have to sign a citation as prosecutor if the department allows it or go take the warrants out yourself. Then Law Enforcement is allowed to make the arrest with the warrant.

But I believe you should be good with that posting but you may want to double check TCA before you do.

[Guest 270win]

There is not a high priority for police to mess with trespassing anywhere. It is a lot of hassle over a minor crime. It is easier for the trespasser to agree to leave, even with no trespassing signs, than to be charged, go to court, etc. How much is the fine??? I highly doubt you could actually get someone jailed over trespassing alone.

[DaveTN]

Having spent to date over $1,000.00 for "Proper Posting" signs for my property to keep trespassers off my farm

Fill us in. What is “proper posting†and why did it cost you a grand?

I am wondering if this new Restaurant Carry Bill does not give me some relief?

If a circle with a slash through a handgun is considered sufficient for a business to be legal in posting against HCP carry, why would it not be OK to draw a circle with a slash through a stick man tacked up at proper intervals?

I don’t know. All we know is that a gun with a slash through it is not enough according to an AG opinion. So can someone be charged (or cited) if the sign is a gun with a circle through it? Certainly… because the AG’s opinion is just that; an opinion. A Judge may have a different opinion.

But the bottom line is that we have kicked this around many times on the forum and so far no one has been arrested or cited for carrying past a sign of any kind. So…. It seems that folks are worrying about something that has not happened. If you are worried about being arrested or cited; don’t carry past a sign of any kind. If you want to test the system there is a guy over in Franklin…

Would that be good enough for prosecution of a trespasser on my farm?

As a cop the problem we generally had with trespassing was that like most laws it required intent. If the said they didn’t see the signs, we have them verbal warning and they went on their way. If they were caught again they were arrested for criminal trespass. However…. If we were called because someone was trespassing on private property there was a pretty good chance Drugs, Liquor, Guns, theft or drivers license violations were involved; very few trespassers walked away when we had a complainant.

[56FordGuy]

Fill us in. What is “proper posting†and why did it cost you a grand?

I don't have the specifics right in front of me, but the TN code spells out what the sign has to say, and they have to be placed every 100 feet. Figure 1.00 per sign, every hundred feet. It adds up quickly.

[Guest nashvegas]

I don't have the specifics right in front of me, but the TN code spells out what the sign has to say, and they have to be placed every 100 feet. Figure 1.00 per sign, every hundred feet. It adds up quickly.

That's a big farm... 19 miles of signage.

[Worriedman]

TCA 70-4-106

( (1) (A) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), it is unlawful for any person to hunt, take, chase, trap or kill any game as defined in § 70-1-101 upon lands posted with signs approved by the wildlife resources agency bearing the language “Hunting By Written Permission Only” and bearing the name of the landowner or the person in possession or control of such lands, without having first obtained the written permission of or being accompanied by the landowner or the person in possession or control of such lands and having authority from the owner to give such permission. Every person who hunts, takes, chases, traps or kills any game on such lands shall have such written permission in immediate possession at all times and shall display the same upon demand of an officer of the wildlife resources agency, sheriff or other peace officer charged with the enforcement of the laws of this state. Written permission shall not be required of the landowner, the landowner's dependents, the person in possession or control of such lands, or the dependents of the person in possession or control of such lands.

( The signs posted pursuant to this subsection ( must be posted by either of the following methods:

(i) The signs must be visible at all major points of ingress and at one hundred yard (100 yd.) intervals on the perimeter of the lands being posted; or

(ii) The signs must be visible at all major points of ingress and must be accompanied by fluorescent visual markings, which markings must also be placed at fifty-yard (50 yd) intervals around the perimeter of the lands being posted. Such fluorescent visual markings must be at least inch (1²) wide and four inches (4²) long. The division of forestry, in cooperation with the department of agriculture and the wildlife resources agency, shall determine a unique universal paint color or colors, including the color blue, to be used for these property boundary markings.

© Any person who posts signs pursuant to this subsection ( without authorization from the landowner is subject to the penalties imposed by subdivision ((2).

(2) (A) A violation of this subsection ( is a Class C misdemeanor. Upon conviction for any violation of this subsection (, the court may revoke the license of the person convicted. Any license so revoked shall be surrendered to the court.

( The provisions of this subsection ( are enforceable and may be prosecuted by all officers of the wildlife resources agency, sheriffs and other peace officers charged with the enforcement of the laws of this state.

© An affidavit from the landowner or the person in possession or control of such lands stating that the property on which the violation occurred was properly posted in accordance with the provisions of this section shall create an inference that such lands were properly posted

Figure the perimeter of a piece of property, every 100 yards, and the proper posting with associated markers gets expensive quick.

There is a lot more revenue generated for the State from farmers than there is from saloon keepers, I just think we ought to be afforded the same consideration when it comes to posting requirements. Hunting generates a huge revenue stream, and all those hunters have to have land to do it on. They do it on farm ground.

Where is the equity?

Edited May 5, 2010 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

That's a big farm... 19 miles of signage.

You think you put them up just once, and they last forever? Then you have the markers that have to go along with it, post for putting them up....

Think about it, and that is just the signage, post and hardware, does not figure in the time and labor. Then you have the vandalism to the signs cause some city boy wants to pull up, cut up your field roads and hunt you place because he wants to.

[Guest Bronker]

What exactly do you expect? Trespassing is a misdemeanor in TN. Due to that fact you either have to sign a citation as prosecutor if the department allows it or go take the warrants out yourself. Then Law Enforcement is allowed to make the arrest with the warrant.

But I believe you should be good with that posting but you may want to double check TCA before you do.

You proved my point exactly. It's not a priority, and trespassers know it. Still doesn't make it right.

Thank goodness for the Castle Doctrine:cool:

[Guest redbarron06]

It is a low priority unless you own the land.

[Guest Bronker]

It is a low priority unless you own the land.

Absolutely!

[Guest redbarron06]

Absolutely!

I am not sure we should be able to shoot tresspassers but I would be all in favor for a law allowing me to beat them.

[Guest 270win]

The violation is a C Misdemeanor...the lowest Misdemeanor in the state. Even the sign misdemeanor for guns is a B Misdemeanor. There's not a lot of priority to enforce minor trespassing only misdemeanors, unless they involve more than the trespassing...such as the person does not want to leave, is hunting on your land KNOWINGLY without permission, illegally hunting out of season, trashing your land, making big mud holes with trucks and four wheelers. People just walking on land who may not "see those signs"...well they're usually asked to leave. I'll be honest....even on land I've hunted on...no way am I going to get into a huge confrontation with someone in the woods with someone who has slipped on my hunting lease and isn't causing trouble and who probably has a gun on him over a misdemeanor....I'll just say "This is a hunting club...you interested in joining...or know of any good spots out here?" Being friendly goes a long ways to an otherwise friendly person in the woods on a hunting lease.

I think this sign crap with guns is the same way....the 'system' truly doesn't want to mess with it. I don't agree with it...but in reality...do you think the police, prosecutors, judges...anybody want to mess with something like a sign that you honestly could have not seen??? Just like a no trespassing sign in the woods??? Folks make honest mistakes...if you aren't causing problems and willing to leave...I don't think you'll have problems if you apoligize...say "Sorry didn't see your sign"..and immediately leave...whether it be to a cop or the owner/manager....crime generally involves intent to break the law...plus these signs have to be visible to the 'avg person'...heck if it wasn't 'visible' to you...well you didn't see it and mean to break any law! My two cents.

[Worriedman]

I just think that the Legislature should make it a level playing field. Circle and slash is good for bars, should be good for farms. Don't know how much money the average bar keep has tied up in their fixtures and trappings, but the cost of a new 24 row planter would probably get you started nicely, and if that will not do it, throw in a combine, and I know that would grub stake a decent beer hall. Try leaving an anhydrous tank out unattended, meth cookers will cut your fences and rob you blind.

Yet everyone considers it a minor offense if someone goes strolling across some one else's property armed, but let a small set of very vocal business owners (Hospitality thugs) have a grievance and God help us, it is a major issue calling for all the troops to line up and go to war on their behalf.

[Guest NotPBFree]

I am not sure we should be able to shoot tresspassers but I would be all in favor for a law allowing me to beat them.

TN law allows use of force to remove a trespasser. Of course, they might then sue you.

[Fallguy]

TN law allows use of force to remove a trespasser. Of course, they might then sue you.

Yes, but not deadly force...and then only the force required to stop the trespass.

[Guest Jamie]

Yes, but not deadly force...and then only the force required to stop the trespass.

You have any idea how hard I'd have to hit a person to knock 'em off my property? Or how may times?

J.

[Fallguy]

You have any idea how hard I'd have to hit a person to knock 'em off my property? Or how may times?

J.

[Guest Jamie]

Well, isn't that how you terminate trespass? Get 'em off your property?

( If the law would allow me to shoot at/near their feet until the left, it'd save us all a whole lot of trouble. )

J.

[Guest TnRebel]

Is there an armed trespassing law in Tn. ? In Florida that is a felony. it was designed to keep hunters out of cattle farms ( Ranches ) in Florida

[Fallguy]

Is there an armed trespassing law in Tn. ? In Florida that is a felony. it was designed to keep hunters out of cattle farms ( Ranches ) in Florida

I don't think so...

Seems what we have is...

39-14-405. Criminal trespass

39-14-406 Aggravated criminal trespass

It seems the aggravated has more to do with causing fear and not necessarly having a firearm or weapon.

http://www.michie.com/tennessee

[Guest TnRebel]

Thanks Fallguy