Which Carry Weapon ammo round do you prefer?

[mikegideon]

Sorry, but I take serious issue with your statement. Guns are designed to SAVE LIVES. And your objective in a self-defense shooting should be to STOP THE THREAT, not to kill. Maybe in military combat, but not in a civilian defense shooting. No freakin' way.

A jury finds out that your objective was to kill, and you're going to be getting to know your cell mate Bubba really well.

I got me some of those rounds loaded with grits (invented by Enfield). They're nonlethal, except for carpenter bees.

[Guest bkelm18]

Sorry, but firearms were created for one purpose, to kill. Not to save your life. You kill your enemy to save your life. Combat or self defense. The gun serves no other purpose.

[mikegideon]

Sorry, but firearms were created for one purpose, to kill. Not to save your life. You kill your enemy to save your life. Combat or self defense. The gun serves no other purpose.

Cool. I'm losing the grits.

[smopoim86]

Gold Dot loads from Double-Tap.

147gr for the 9mms

230gr for the .45s

Have you done any testing with the DT loads. I tried a few of my 9mm 115gr DT in water jugs and there was nothing left. The bullet lost about 90% of it's original weight. If the correct bullet is used, pushing the limits may make it perform better, but that's obviously not the case for the DoubleTap loads I have. I'm not impressed.

I'm carrying Federal HST 165gr .40 in my P2000SK. Currently the 115gr DoubleTap in my P7 (gotta find something else, I'm not impressed by the performance)

Daniel

[kb4ns]

I'm very picky. I would only trust the personal defense rounds made by Speer. Or Winchester. Or Remington. Or Hornady. Or Federal.

Pick one of the many good brands of HP ammo. Make sure it works reliably in your gun. Clean your gun. Put it in the magazine. Put it in your holster. Done.

[daddyo]

Sorry, but firearms were created for one purpose, to kill. Not to save your life. You kill your enemy to save your life. Combat or self defense. The gun serves no other purpose.

Absolutely, unequivocally incorrect.

You should not be carrying a weapon.

[kb4ns]

I think there's a reason that using a firearm on someone is called "deadly force". Expecting the firearm to do any less is the wrong mindset.

If I live the rest of my life without having to kill someone, I'll be quite happy. However, if it comes down to a "them or me" situation and I have to use "deadly force", I expect them to be killed. Anything less than death is luck on their part.

[molonlabetn]

Have you done any testing with the DT loads. I tried a few of my 9mm 115gr DT in water jugs and there was nothing left. The bullet lost about 90% of it's original weight. If the correct bullet is used, pushing the limits may make it perform better, but that's obviously not the case for the DoubleTap loads I have. I'm not impressed.

I'm carrying Federal HST 165gr .40 in my P2000SK. Currently the 115gr DoubleTap in my P7 (gotta find something else, I'm not impressed by the performance)

Daniel

Water isn't a reliable test media... nearly any high velocity projectile will disintegrate when it hits water.

I have seen several ballistics gelatin test with DT loads and they performed exceptionally. More penetration and expansion than regular Speer Gold Dot loads. The higher velocity is why I use their 147gr load in the 9mm though, instead of 115gr (which are marginal with any bullet or load).

[molonlabetn]

Sorry, but firearms were created for one purpose, to kill. Not to save your life. You kill your enemy to save your life. Combat or self defense. The gun serves no other purpose.

Guns were created to fire bullets.

The person using the gun makes the decision to kill using those bullets.

[Smith]

Water isn't a reliable test media... nearly any high velocity projectile will disintegrate when it hits water.

I have seen several ballistics gelatin test with DT loads and they performed exceptionally. More penetration and expansion than regular Speer Gold Dot loads. The higher velocity is why I use their 147gr load in the 9mm though, instead of 115gr (which are marginal with any bullet or load).

Interesting because everything I've read says that 9mm defensive loads in particular are based around velocity to achieve penetration and expansion. Every test I've seen shows much less penetration and less reliable expansion with that heavy of a load due to the loss in velocity. Especially in barrels under 5". Completely different theory than .45. My interpretation is that 124g +p is the perfect compromise, irregardless of bullet, for 9mm (sans FMJ). Now in FMJ I could get behind the 147g.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Interesting because everything I've read says that 9mm defensive loads in particular are based around velocity to achieve penetration and expansion. Every test I've seen shows much less penetration and less reliable expansion with that heavy of a load due to the loss in velocity. Especially in barrels under 5". Completely different theory than .45. My interpretation is that 124g +p is the perfect compromise, irregardless of bullet, for 9mm (sans FMJ). Now in FMJ I could get behind the 147g.

I bought a bunch of 124 gr Golden Sabers, thinking I ordered 147's. I feel

a little better, now:D

[molonlabetn]

Interesting because everything I've read says that 9mm defensive loads in particular are based around velocity to achieve penetration and expansion. Every test I've seen shows much less penetration and less reliable expansion with that heavy of a load due to the loss in velocity. Especially in barrels under 5". Completely different theory than .45. My interpretation is that 124g +p is the perfect compromise, irregardless of bullet, for 9mm (sans FMJ). Now in FMJ I could get behind the 147g.

With greater velocity there is greater expansion... which is great when the bullet can retain structural integrity. Higher velocity 115gr bullets penetrate less because of this, and because they have less sectional density for a given surface area.

Official 10% ordinance gelatin results! - AR15 Armory.com

The data speaks for itself.

[MacGyver]

147gr HST's in 9mm. 230gr +p HST's in .45acp.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Absolutely, unequivocally incorrect.

You should not be carrying a weapon.

Not to start a flame war, but Daddy0 by your definition of "saving lives" and what not...you should stick to a Taser if your really that worried about someone else dying and getting sued.

Now back to the OP's question...in a .40 that is most likely gonna be used in a crowded restaurant you should probably use a 135gr Hollowpoint. Federal has an LE round. 135gr creates the most "hydrostatic shock" and is a proven solid stopper in 40cal. It also should negate the risk of overpenetration.

Hydrostatic shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mike.357]

I don't have to read the thread to know that what people choose is not from firsthand experience. It is internet hyperbole or something they read about in a gunrag.

That said, nothing is better than JHP flavored in .45 auto. Choose whatever brand you want. I don't think it much matters.

[Mike.357]

Absolutely, unequivocally incorrect.

You should not be carrying a weapon.

what purpose were they created for then?

[mikegideon]

I bought a bunch of 124 gr Golden Sabers, thinking I ordered 147's. I feel

a little better, now:D

Yep. I have some 147's and they barely make it to the end of the barrel

[kb4ns]

Yep. I have some 147's and they barely make it to the end of the barrel

[Smith]

With greater velocity there is greater expansion... which is great when the bullet can retain structural integrity. Higher velocity 115gr bullets penetrate less because of this, and because they have less sectional density for a given surface area.

Official 10% ordinance gelatin results! - AR15 Armory.com

The data speaks for itself.

Interesting. I still think the 124g +p is the best compromise in 9mm. I'm guessing it all equals out in the real world, so i don't worry about it too much.

[mikegideon]

Interesting. I still think the 124g +p is the best compromise in 9mm. I'm guessing it all equals out in the real world, so i don't worry about it too much.

You could be right. I have had a helluva time finding +P's in 9mm. Two of my 9's are rated for it. Right now I have 115gr (I think) critical defense and 147gr PDX1's, both standard pressure.

[Guest canebreaker]

I have some 140 gr. ws with 2.1 grs. of accurate #2 behind them, 38 spl. They ought to burn and stick in place for a while.

[daddyo]

I don't have to read the thread to know that what people choose is not from firsthand experience. It is internet hyperbole or something they read about in a gunrag.

That said, nothing is better than JHP flavored in .45 auto. Choose whatever brand you want. I don't think it much matters.

Best post in the entire thread.

[Guest johnsonc22]

oK...i WILL just cover a few things. Someone asked where sonny's bbq is and that is 350 North Peters Road Knoxville, TN 37922 (865)6929940. I also agree that you primary goal should be to stop the threat. If that means the only possible way is a round that is deadly then that is stopping the threat, but I am in a restaurant with other patrons. Ok your sitting down to eat with ur family and you hear a fight break out and then i come out pop off a round and it goes flying through the walls and right where you sit. Now listen I am not saying i am not wanting guns or dont believe self defense, but I am just trying to take best measures to make sure I can protect myself, workers, and customers. I do carry hollow points, but the first round down is a snake shot. Ok so one round to subdue a criminal seemed ok with me. One round of snake shot still out of a .40 would be a bad freakin day in close quarters like the restaurant is. Now out side I carry a different clip all with the hardest hitting rounds i can get.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Johnsonc22 you better check and see how much spread that snake shot has at indoor range...if it spreads too much you have an increased risk of hitting patrons...something that wouldnt be a problem with a standard hollowpoint....you might also want to consider a frangible round as a better alternative...as they definitely wont overpenetrate but will cause one hell of a nasty wound.

[mikegideon]

Johnsonc22

Lose the snake shot. It has a better chance of getting you killed than anything else