Mythbusters 9mm vs 45

[Guest rockbottom12]

Watched a mythbusters today where they tested homemade bullet stopper.

Since i got into guns 3 yrs ago, i have had 9mm pistols, and i have heard over and over by the mega machos among us, anything less than a 45 is insufficient or anything less than a 45 is not big enough...... the round of the military......

so all this to say when they shot jamie's homemade bullet stopper, the 9mm busted the mix more than than the 45.

explain, I bet it has to do with size vs speed or something of that nature, but...... does this have any effect on how it works as a defensive round?

[Guest bkelm18]

Too many factors come into play. Different bullet weights from different manufacturers. Different barrel lengths, etc. I believe I've seen the episode. Like most, the test wasn't purely scientific.

[Guest CK1]

Your Grandpa's .45acp WAS a better man-stopper than Grandpa's 9mm... BACK THEN...

Now, in 2010, the 9mm is a different round, while I wouldn't want to take a hit from a .45, a modern day made-to-energy-dump and expand JHP +P Gold Dot 124gr 9mm will hurt more than Grandpa's... science can be scary.

When shooting to penetrate a vehicle I wouldn't choose a handgun in any caliber, I'd be looking for a rifle or a shotty charged with slugs...

Edited May 2, 2010 by CK1

[jtluttrell]

I just watched this. Amazing that tile stopped either one.

[mikegideon]

A 9mm is a lot faster, and the bullet is half the weight. A 9mm Gold dot is a badass round, but a .45 caliber PDX1 is also a badass.

Old 9mm ball vs Old .45 ball... .45 is superior. So why is new technology 9mm superior to new technology .45?

I have PDX1's (current FBI pick) in both calibers. I'll read of the boxes...

9mm energy: Muzzle: 326 25yds: 311 50yds: 297

.45 energy: Muzzle: 432 25yds: 414 50yds: 397

9mm velocity: Muzzle: 1000 25yds: 976 50yds: 954

.45 velocity: Muzzle: 920 25yds: 900 50yds: 882

Edited May 2, 2010 by mikegideon

[Guest CK1]

Old 9mm ball vs Old .45 ball... .45 is superior. So why is new technology 9mm superior to new technology .45?

I didn't mean that, sorry if I worded it confusingly... I meant New 9mm is as good or better than an old "ball" fmj .45...

I'm sure the new-style JHP .45 is catastrophic, that said, the old ball did the job pretty good as it was so that's not saying much.

I don't believe in caliber or the mythical one-shot stop, I believe in accuracy and follow-up shots as needed, and IMO 18 9mm +P JHP's is more firepower than 8 or 9 .45's (whether FMJ or JHP) in the hands of someone who knows how to use 'em. In fact, if you miss, they're exactly the same.

Again, JMHO! Not interested in starting a caliber war thread, just putting my personal opinion out there... to each his own.

Edited May 3, 2010 by CK1

[mikegideon]

Won't get a war from me anyway. I own 3 9's, and one .45 at this point. If I only had one shot, I would pick a .45. Doesn't mean I don't think the 9 is effective.

[Guest CK1]

Won't get a war from me anyway. I own 3 9's, and one .45 at this point. If I only had one shot, I would pick a .45. Doesn't mean I don't think the 9 is effective.

That's cool, well said. If I had one-shot it'd be a 12GA.

[mikegideon]

That's cool, well said. If I had one-shot it'd be a 12GA.

Got a couple of them too

[Guest tnfireman]

The .45 is just cooler than the 9mm..lol

Seriously though, I just like shooting a .45 but with modern day ammo I do not feel under armed when I carry a 9mm. As it was stated before shot placement is key no matter what you are carrying.

[Guest Chandler]

Force = mass x acceleration.

[knoxrocks222]

10mm...........nuff said

[Guest redbarron06]

9mm might expand, 45 is not going to get any smaller.

[Steelharp]

I'd love to see the look on the face of one of those "9mm is wimpy" guys if they had one pointed at 'em... just sayin'...

[Guest pusherman]

9mm might expand, 45 is not going to get any smaller.

I might steal that one

[Dolomite_supafly]

I prefer velocity to mass. When doubling the velocity the energy goes up by a factor of four. By doubling the weight it only doubles the energy.

Something else that comes into play with higher velocity rounds is hydrstatic shock. Some people believe in it some don't. Hydrastatic shock is the damage caused by the pressure wave of the impact and can travel a lot farther than the permanent wound cavity and even the temporary one as well. Think of it like being punched in soft tissue, although there isn't any visible damage it still causes pain and damage. This hydrastatic shock occurs more readily when velocity is higher. This is what makes lightweight 223 rounds so violent compared to the heavier versions.

The 9mm is more capable of generating the hydrastatic shock because of the higher velocity. I carried a 45 for years and still miss my last 1911 but prefer fast rounds to the slow heavy 45.

Because I believe so strongly in the hydrastatic effects of fast lightweight rounds I am going to be building a 1911 in 7.62x25 Tokarev. Having a bullet travelling at 1400-1500 FPS is going to have a masive hydrastatic shockwave even with a FMJ.

I did some testing of some 90 grain FMJ 9mm rounds. Most people would agree that they are the worst because they generally pass right through with little to no damage. What I did was push those little bullets to 2000+ FPS to see how they performed. The didn't exit a 1 gallon jug and absolutely destroyed the jug. When the same rounds were fired at a more sedate 1100-1200 FPS they went tright through a jug but when the velocity was increased the hydrastatic shock caused so much more damage.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I might steal that one

It IS a keeper

[molonlabetn]

I prefer velocity to mass. When doubling the velocity the energy goes up by a factor of four. By doubling the weight it only doubles the energy.

Something else that comes into play with higher velocity rounds is hydrstatic shock. Some people believe in it some don't. Hydrastatic shock is the damage caused by the pressure wave of the impact and can travel a lot farther than the permanent wound cavity and even the temporary one as well. Think of it like being punched in soft tissue, although there isn't any visible damage it still causes pain and damage. This hydrastatic shock occurs more readily when velocity is higher. This is what makes lightweight 223 rounds so violent compared to the heavier versions.

The 9mm is more capable of generating the hydrastatic shock because of the higher velocity. I carried a 45 for years and still miss my last 1911 but prefer fast rounds to the slow heavy 45.

Because I believe so strongly in the hydrastatic effects of fast lightweight rounds I am going to be building a 1911 in 7.62x25 Tokarev. Having a bullet travelling at 1400-1500 FPS is going to have a masive hydrastatic shockwave even with a FMJ.

I did some testing of some 90 grain FMJ 9mm rounds. Most people would agree that they are the worst because they generally pass right through with little to no damage. What I did was push those little bullets to 2000+ FPS to see how they performed. The didn't exit a 1 gallon jug and absolutely destroyed the jug. When the same rounds were fired at a more sedate 1100-1200 FPS they went tright through a jug but when the velocity was increased the hydrastatic shock caused so much more damage.

Dolomite

You should look into 9x25 Dillon

9mm bullet at 1500-1800fps...

[Seaslug]

You should look into 9x25 Dillon

9mm bullet at 1500-1800fps...

You read my mind. I've been thinking of picking up a Glock 20--or maybe even another 29--with a conversion barrel and making it a dedicated 9x25 Dillon gun. Decisions, decisions...

[1gewehr]

Penetration is a different animal. It is actually pretty simple. It is simply mass x velocity / area. That's why a small diameter projectile will typically penetrate better. A baseball has much less penetration than an icepick, even if the velocity is the same. So, 9mm will typically have better penetration than a .45acp as it is faster with a smaller diameter.

[Garufa]

Of course your results may vary...

[Steelharp]

Those all look pretty dang effective to me!

[Seaslug]

Don't forget the 10mm!

[Steelharp]

WOW! Doesn't 10mm slap you in the forehead, though?

[DaveTN]

It’s all simply applied physics. Unfortunately physics doesn’t take into consideration the price of the round; which is the determining factor many end up using.

The “Mega Macho†guys aren’t the .45 guys. They are the “shot placement†guys. It doesn’t matter what caliber those guys use.