Guns and (non-violent) felons... How do you feel about it?

[JAB]

I think that the 'some felons should be able to get their rights back and some shouldn't' approach is naive, no offense intended. After all, the intention may be good but the reality would be that the 'some' who could get their rights back would end up being those with connections and/or money to pay lawyers to keep appealing, etc. while the 'some' who wouldn't be able to get their rights back would be those who don't 'know somebody' or can't afford to pay that string of lawyers - regardless of the offense, rehabilitation and so on. To me, if 'some' felons are going to lose their rights for life then all felons should continue to lose their rights for life, period. No, they haven't paid their debt to society because, as someone said earlier, part of paying that debt is losing certain rights for life.

To me, it would make much more sense to argue for downgrading certain offenses so that those offenses are no longer felonies, period, rather than saying, "Well, this felon is a nice guy and should get his rights back while that felon is a jerk." Trying to decide which ex-con is lying and which is telling the truth when he or she claims to be rehabilitated is a slippery slope, at best.

As for the OP's friend, well, he stopped being 'just a user' when he chose to play chauffeur for a drug dealer. By driving the dealer around, he facilitated drug deals and, in that way, was as much a part of those deals as the dealer, himself. This wasn't a simple 'mistake' nor did he act in ignorance of the law. Instead, he knowingly and willingly aided a drug dealer in the act of dealing drugs. He might as well have been slinging the stuff, himself, as far as I am concerned. To say otherwise is like saying, "I didn't rob that bank, I just knowingly and willingly drove the getaway car."

Edited May 4, 2010 by JAB

[Guest DeadEye]

Look's like very soon a Felon in Tn will not be allowed to even own a aggresive type of dog for 10 yrs after release!

This will be interesting, since there is no specific breed named, just dogs that could be mean and evil!

[wjh2657]

Just my 2 cents...I am a 2A purist. I believe that once you have done the time regardless of your crime ALL your rights should be restored, period. Voting, gun ownership, ALL of them.

Having said that, I also believe that if the authorities are worried about a person reoffending then they should not be let out. I believe that the death penalty should be automatic for 1st degree murder, rape, and child molestation. I believe that we should have across the board mandatory minimums for a lot of crimes - drug use not being one of them. IMO the drug war is a collosal waste of time and money and can never be won. Do I have the answers for this problem? Nope. Thats why politics never interested me as a career...

Felons, other than Murderers awaiting execution or "Life Without Chance of Parole" do not do their time. They are out doing less than 20% of their time. Every BG out their knows that a 20 year sentence means doing 3 years. So, fulfilling their debt to society just doesn't wash.

On the other hand, I do believe that many felonies should be Class A Misdemeanors. Thi

[wjh2657]

Just my 2 cents...I am a 2A purist. I believe that once you have done the time regardless of your crime ALL your rights should be restored, period. Voting, gun ownership, ALL of them.

Having said that, I also believe that if the authorities are worried about a person reoffending then they should not be let out. I believe that the death penalty should be automatic for 1st degree murder, rape, and child molestation. I believe that we should have across the board mandatory minimums for a lot of crimes - drug use not being one of them. IMO the drug war is a collosal waste of time and money and can never be won. Do I have the answers for this problem? Nope. Thats why politics never interested me as a career...

Felons, other than Murderers awaiting execution or "Life Without Chance of Parole" do not do their time. They are out doing less than 20% of their time. Every BG out their knows that a 20 year sentence means doing 3 years. So, fulfilling their debt to society just doesn't wash.

On the other hand, I do believe that many felonies should be Class A Misdemeanors. This would allow some jail time to reflect on their errors but not so long as let them lose their place in society. The offense would not carry over for the rest of their life either.

[Mad_Squirrell]

The OP stated the scenario in which he lost his rights . Is the reason this debate has gone on so long .

Prohibition does not work so therefore people made criminals because of the law distribute them because of the demand .criminals fighting over territory (mostly gangs) is why people get killed over it . Prohibition limits the distribution through illegal channels thereby hyper inflating the cost and profit margins . Not that I advocate drug use . but they should be made legal at least for possession .Or reduce the penalties to fines with no jail time .

But pertaining to the situation of the original poster because of the way the laws of the land work as of right now because of the high amount of violence in the drug world and the atmosphere of selling and pushing to kids you cant tell me that dealing drugs is a victimless crime had your friend been nailed for possession alone I would have a different opinion . I think after time and proven not to be a user anymore he should have his rights re instated but since he chose to pedal them with of all people a known gang member why on earth knowing all the facts would anyone think he should have his rights back . he chose to take it to the next level he went from user to distributor . So now he is forced to make a decision does he continue to comply with the current law no matter how unfair it seems to be or does he become a habitual criminal offender .The line in the sand has to be drawn somewhere .He has already crossed it once .Now he has an obligation to uphold the law and accept the consequences for his actions .

[Guest Drewsett]

so someone can drive drunk , but if caught with some pot they are in a different boat? I am not buying into that.

I'm with you...

I'm a finance major at MTSU. I did a project on legalization of cannabis and then subsequent taxation. When factoring in the savings of not having to prosecute, jail, or search for pot-growers, distributors, and users along with a reasonble tax rate (I used the prevailing rate for taxation on cigarettes and alcohol) the state of TN would clear nearly 4 and a half billion dollars. You may not know it, but TN is the number 2 pot-growing state in the country behind California.

Imagine what our state could do with 4 and a half billion extra dollars lying around. Imagine what the country could do with that kind of money if every state went full legalization? Oh and since alot of pot is grown in Mexico and trucked up here (amongst other drugs), it would help to reduce the number of traffickers.

The police could concentrate on more serious crimes than simple possession of marijuana. Going full legalization and then taxing and regulating it would build up entire new industries in the US and in 3rd world countries...Green jobs indeed!

Whether you agree with the politics of legalization or not, the finances of it make alot of sense

(oh and just in case you're curious..I'm a libertarian...you'll find we're not all crochety old men, economists, or crazy hippies)

[Guest crotalus01]

"Felons, other than Murderers awaiting execution or "Life Without Chance of Parole" do not do their time. They are out doing less than 20% of their time. Every BG out their knows that a 20 year sentence means doing 3 years. So, fulfilling their debt to society just doesn't wash.

On the other hand, I do believe that many felonies should be Class A Misdemeanors. This would allow some jail time to reflect on their errors but not so long as let them lose their place in society. The offense would not carry over for the rest of their life either."

Agreed, that is why I believe we should have madatory minimums for almost all felonies. Then they would serve their time. After they have served their time, I believe all rights should be restored.

Deerslayer - ALL of our Founding Fathers were criminals in the eyes of the British gov't. I do not believe that they intended for even "former" criminals should be denied their 2A rights. Let me clarify my position - if the justice system was truely Just, i.e. criminals served the appropriate amount of time for their crime(s) and were deemed fit to re-enter society, then I believe they should have ALL their rights restored regardless of the nature of their crime. Note that in a truely JUST system murders, rapists and child molesters would be doing a rope dance...

[JAB]

On the other hand, I do believe that many felonies should be Class A Misdemeanors. This would allow some jail time to reflect on their errors but not so long as let them lose their place in society. The offense would not carry over for the rest of their life either.

That approach would seem, to me, to be much more equitable and have much less opportunity for exploitation than allowing 'some' felons to regain full rights but not others. Further, limiting the number of true felony crimes would allow the justice system to much more effeciently 'lower the boom' on those who commit such crimes (meaning serving more of their prison time, etc.)

Edited May 5, 2010 by JAB

[Guest excatm76]

I'm a firm beliver in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. As far as I know there has never been an amendment to remove the right to bear arms from anyone. I believe all gun controll that is not enacted via an amendment to the Constitution is illegal. Therefore as much as I value my own right to bear arms I must respect thoose of others.

It's a fact that most fellons are not reformed when they get out and will repeat the same behavior over and over. I think we should look at changing our sentencing guide lines and prisons to make going back the last thing they would ever want. I also think we should enact the death penalty for dealing hard drugs, serial rape, serial violent crime and all forms of murder.

Lets stop preverting the law to stop fellons from owning guns. If the founding fathers wanted any restrictions on gun ownership they would have listed it. Once a person does thier tme, they are again Americans and as such have the same rights as the rest of us. Untill the Constitution is changed that fact will not change. Regardless of what Unconstitutional laws are enforced as a support of the second ammendment I can not agree with anyones RTKABA being infringed.

[deerslayer]

[quote name=crotalus01;515798

Deerslayer - ALL of our Founding Fathers were criminals in the eyes of the British gov't. I do not believe that they intended for even "former" criminals should be denied their 2A rights. Let me clarify my position - if the justice system was truely Just' date=' i.e. criminals served the appropriate amount of time for their crime(s) and were deemed fit to re-enter society, then I believe they should have ALL their rights restored regardless of the nature of their crime. Note that in a truely JUST system murders, rapists and child molesters would be doing a rope dance...[/quote]

Felons lose their rights, not only as punishment, but also as a means to protect society from an obviously flawed person when he gets to leave timeout. I have no problem with this.

What would a "truly just" system do with one who was convicted of second degree attempted murder? What about robbery? Would these crimes qualify one for the "rope dance?" Would the thug who shot my father have all his rights restored after serving his sentence in this utopia you describe?

[Guest excatm76]

Felons lose their rights, not only as punishment, but also as a means to protect society from an obviously flawed person when he gets to leave timeout. I have no problem with this.

What would a "truly just" system do with one who was convicted of second degree attempted murder? What about robbery? Would these crimes qualify one for the "rope dance?" Would the thug who shot my father have all his rights restored after serving his sentence in this utopia you describe?

The problem with your line of logic is that there has never been a constitutional amendment removing the rights of fellons. If you want your constitutional rights protected then you have to be in favor of thiers. As far as someone being convicted of attempted murder, robery etc.. If they have doen thier time, they have done thier time. If they commit the offense agin then you make the law clear they will ether die or never see the light of day again. Do you honestly believe they can't get a gun anyway? If you know they can then you'd have to agree the law is pointless.

[deerslayer]

The problem with your line of logic is that there has never been a constitutional amendment removing the rights of fellons. If you want your constitutional rights protected then you have to be in favor of thiers. As far as someone being convicted of attempted murder, robery etc.. If they have doen thier time, they have done thier time. If they commit the offense agin then you make the law clear they will ether die or never see the light of day again. Do you honestly believe they can't get a gun anyway? If you know they can then you'd have to agree the law is pointless.

I don't think there is an amendment that bars people from drunk driving, either. Of course they can still get guns, but I don't think it's a good idea to put the right to own and use a gun on a silver platter for convicted criminals. Why have laws at all if you feel that way?

Maybe your family will be their next victim. Sorry, I just don't have sympathy for thugs.