A Disaster Of Mega Proportions Brewing In Gulf

[Guest SUNTZU]

It was in BP's own best interest to claim that they would pay for everything. Straight out of the PR playbook. The insurance companies said the same things to those folks, and it never happened. The deal ain't done until the check clears. Fact is, people were NOT getting paid promptly by BP. Doesn't even matter if it was intentional, but my money says it was.

The administration doesn't need to be tooting their horn too loud. They haven't exactly done a stellar job. With that said, the 20 bil is a good thing.

Gotta love Haley. He's Boss Hogg

I don't know why anyone would think that there wouldn't be a rapid response from the government. They generally operate with the sleek moves of a jungle cat.

[mikegideon]

I don't know why anyone would think that there wouldn't be a rapid response from the government. They generally operate with the sleek moves of a jungle cat.

An overweight, special needs jungle cat . Unfortunately, they are responsible for a response. There are a lot of resources down there. Let's hope they get focused.

[Guest SUNTZU]

An overweight, special needs jungle cat . Unfortunately, they are responsible for a response. There are a lot of resources down there. Let's hope they get focused.

Oh I agree, more like a retarded water buffalo stuck in the mire. I do think they are very focused, though...on themselves. I'm actually quite tired of the baby boomer generation. They've screwed this nation, not to mention many of the next generation, up quite well and long enough. It makes me rather nervous of the next round of leaders that are heading for the leadership roles.

[MacGyver]

This little piece of extralegal looting may in fact be where this disaster becomes Obama's Katrina (if you think that analogy has any merit). It's a really dangerous play, and I think shows more about how disconnected he truly is, and what a political operator he truly is.

The Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (passed in 1989 by a Democratic Congress with huge bipartisan support) requires that BP pay for every cent of containment and cleanup. Every cent. Even if it weren't the right thing to do, and the smart thing to do from a PR perspective, it's required by law. Today.

Now here comes Obama demanding the money go into escrow that the administration or one of its "non-partisan appointees" heads up. If I was BP, I would absolutely have jumped on that. It is truly Obama's mess, now.

Had any applicant to BP been denied reimbursement, they would have full recourse to sue under the law. Now, the government has a $20B piggy bank. That's a lot of cash to dole out to your friends to help "clean up". I'd love to see an audited statement at the end of this. Suddenly this is going to become one of those charities who spends $5 in administrative costs for every $1 they give away. It's going to be a disaster.

It really suprises me that Obama did it. Is he really that naive? Does he really think the government can do better? Faster? I don't believe it. You don't get to where he is being that stupid.

He's grasping at air. This is going to be suicidal for him politically.

Anybody want a FEMA trailer?

Edited June 16, 2010 by MacGyver

[mikegideon]

This little piece of extralegal looting may in fact be where this disaster becomes Obama's Katrina (if you think that analogy has any merit). It's a really dangerous play, and I think shows more about how disconnected he truly is, and what a political operator he truly is.

The Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (passed in 1989 by a Democratic Congress with huge bipartisan support) requires that BP pay for every cent of containment and cleanup. Every cent. Even if it weren't the right thing to do, and the smart thing to do from a PR perspective, it's required by law. Today.

Now here come's Obama demanding the money go into escrow that the administration or one of its "non-partisan appointees" heads up. If I was BP, I would absolutely have jumped on that. It is truly Obama's mess, now.

Had any applicant to BP been denied reimbursement, they would have full recourse to sue under the law. Now, the government has a $20B piggy bank. That's a lot of cash to dole out to your friends to help "clean up". I'd love to see an audited statement at the end of this. Suddenly this is going to become one of those charities who spends $5 in administrative costs for every $1 they give away. It's going to be a disaster.

It really suprises me that Obama did it. Is he really that naive? Does he really think the government can do better? Faster? I don't believe it. You don't get to where he is being that stupid.

He's grasping at air. This is going to be suicidal for him politically.

Disagree. First of all, it will be administered independently, not by the government. It's HUGE exposure for Obama if it goes wrong.

Sue BP? Are you kidding? You have people that are weeks or months from bankrupcy, and they're gonna attack BP on BP's turf? It's like suing a tobacco company after you have been diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. File those papers, we'll be with you right away.

[mikegideon]

-- Chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg the board of BP has decided not to pay any further dividends this year.

Maybe they shouldn't... Good call Mr. Svanberg

[Guest HvyMtl]

Um. BP admitted to 16+ Billion in PROFITS last year alone...

So this $20 billion is just a year's profits. Woo. Makes one wonder if corporations such as BP and the others in the oil industry are a bit too big... Perhaps even too big to fail...

[MacGyver]

Sue BP? Are you kidding? You have people that are weeks or months from bankrupcy, and they're gonna attack BP on BP's turf? It's like suing a tobacco company after you have been diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. File those papers, we'll be with you right away.

Not saying it's easy, but that there is recourse under the law as it exists today. BP couldn't afford to get this wrong. Not that their handling thus far deserves any slack. This is a huge disaster, and the clean up may indeed last generations in some ares.

Managed independently?

From CBS's report of the meeting this morning:

The fund would be administered by TARP special master and "pay czar" Ken Feinberg, who also coordinated the distribution of funds for people impacted by the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings.

Call it what you want. This play was stupid on the part of the administration.

Again, I hope you are right.

[mikegideon]

Administered by the TARP guy? That was a major change in the plan. WTF?

[MacGyver]

Somebody's already looking for the hammer to crack that piggy bank.

This ought to make people really angry.

[mikegideon]

Somebody's already looking for the hammer to crack that piggy bank.

This ought to make people really angry.

I'm a little crabby myself. I definately wanna know more. If it's just a matter of administering the fund to one or more independent firms, it doesn't bug me so much. If the gov is going to manage individual claims, that's a whole other animal.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Administered by the TARP guy? That was a major change in the plan. WTF?

Yeah, I mean really, who would think that Obama and his administration would EVER do something like that?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

All I can see is a bunch of demands placed on BP by Eric Holder and Obama that

will cause BP to cut and run.

This isn't about blame, anymore. It's about raw power, once again, being

usurped by Obama just in time to appear he is 'saving the day' for for all us subjects.

There's not a damned thing he can do about this mess in the gulf

except punish and seize.

That's a golden opportunity for him. Why else did he spend so much time, last night, talking politics?

The disaster of mega proportions may turn out to be something other than the spill.

With the political connections in the thread I posted this morning, it just tells me

this is 'Takeover v.2' and another disaster for the taxpayer, not to mention the folks

on the gulf losing everything.

Even the democrats are pissed about his speech. He should have stuck to talking

about how this spill will be fixed and how the cleanup will succeed.

The people in Louisiana got hit doubly hard in this. He placed a moratorium on their

jobs and says BP has to pay for that, too. Ridiculous.

He knows he can't do anything about it, so he politicizes it. How can anyone have

faith in this president, with the experiences he brought to office, and the people he

surrounds himself with?

[mikegideon]

Yeah, I mean really, who would think that Obama and his administration would EVER do something like that?

Not the point. He SAID it would be handled by independent firms

[MacGyver]

The two year's I spent in Houston investigating this little oil and gas company that declared bankruptcy may have jaded me a bit.

The one thing I learned from that experience is that there are only two groups that come out ahead in a calamity like this - the lawyers and the restructuring specialists. I can't even count the number of meetings I walked into that had $60,000/hour worth of professional fees sitting around a conference table.

It's ironic, but it's kind of like going to the gas station. From the time you get there, until the time you leave, you can just watch the price go up. And the sad thing is that they don't leave until the tanks are dry.

Maybe we should send restructuring specialists to siphon the oil from the wellhead. They can certainly suck faster than any pumps that BP has out there.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Not the point. He SAID it would be handled by independent firms

That IS the point. He's SAID quite a bit throughout his term to date and DONE WHATEVER the **** he's wanted. It is EXACTLY the point.

[mikegideon]

All I can see is a bunch of demands placed on BP by Eric Holder and Obama that

will cause BP to cut and run.

This isn't about blame, anymore. It's about raw power, once again, being

usurped by Obama just in time to appear he is 'saving the day' for for all us subjects.

There's not a damned thing he can do about this mess in the gulf

except punish and seize.

That's a golden opportunity for him. Why else did he spend so much time, last night, talking politics?

The disaster of mega proportions may turn out to be something other than the spill.

With the political connections in the thread I posted this morning, it just tells me

this is 'Takeover v.2' and another disaster for the taxpayer, not to mention the folks

on the gulf losing everything.

Even the democrats are pissed about his speech. He should have stuck to talking

about how this spill will be fixed and how the cleanup will succeed.

The people in Louisiana got hit doubly hard in this. He placed a moratorium on their

jobs and says BP has to pay for that, too. Ridiculous.

He knows he can't do anything about it, so he politicizes it. How can anyone have

faith in this president, with the experiences he brought to office, and the people he

surrounds himself with?

BP won't cut and run yet. I agree with the esgrow, because they would have weaseled out. But it better be done right.

I also agree with the temporary suspension of drilling.

The speech last night was pitiful. It cost him lots of ground.

[MacGyver]

All I can see is a bunch of demands placed on BP by Eric Holder and Obama that

will cause BP to cut and run.

This isn't about blame, anymore. It's about raw power, once again, being

usurped by Obama just in time to appear he is 'saving the day' for for all us subjects.

There's not a damned thing he can do about this mess in the gulf

except punish and seize.

That's a golden opportunity for him. Why else did he spend so much time, last night, talking politics?

The disaster of mega proportions may turn out to be something other than the spill.

With the political connections in the thread I posted this morning, it just tells me

this is 'Takeover v.2' and another disaster for the taxpayer, not to mention the folks

on the gulf losing everything.

Even the democrats are pissed about his speech. He should have stuck to talking

about how this spill will be fixed and how the cleanup will succeed.

The people in Louisiana got hit doubly hard in this. He placed a moratorium on their

jobs and says BP has to pay for that, too. Ridiculous.

He knows he can't do anything about it, so he politicizes it. How can anyone have

faith in this president, with the experiences he brought to office, and the people he

surrounds himself with?

Far be it from me to support the guy; I think his handling of this has been miserable so far. But then again, I don't believe that our government is capable of creating value. So, big suprise. I don't think it would have matter who was in office. They would have done an abysmal job as well. The lesson that things like Katrina and this should teach us is that we depend far too much on our federal government. There are some jobs that they're just not cut out to do.

I don't think he's smart enough to capitalize on this. Not really, anyway. I think that's why we've seen him so disconnected. He's trying to find a way to capitalize on it, and there's not one. It's all downside. The only scenario where he wins is by plugging the hole, and he can't do it. All the might of our federal government isn't big enough to plug an 18" hole in the ground.

I think he certainly has an agenda, but the problem with this disaster, from his perspective is that this is really screwing it up. Spending political capital on this costs him in areas where he really wants to bring that "hope and change".

Edited June 16, 2010 by MacGyver

[Guest SUNTZU]

Far be it from me to support the guy; I think his handling of this has been miserable so far. But then again, I don't believe that our government is capable of delivering value. So, big suprise. I don't think it would have matter who was in office. They would have done an abysmal job as well. The lesson that things like Katrina and this should teach us is that we depend far too much on our federal government. There are some jobs that they're just not cut out to do.

I don't think he's smart enough to capitalize on this. Not really, anyway. I think that's why we've seen him so disconnected. He's trying to find a way to capitalize on it, and there's not one. It's all downside. The only scenario where he wins is by plugging the hole, and he can't do it. All the might of our federal government isn't big enough to plug an 18" hole in the ground.

I think he certainly has an agenda, but the problem from his perspective is that this is really screwing it up. Spending political capital on this costs him in areas where he really wants to bring that "hope and change".

This.

[mikegideon]

That IS the point. He's SAID quite a bit throughout his term to date and DONE WHATEVER the **** he's wanted. It is EXACTLY the point.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- BP has agreed to put $20 billion into an independently managed account to cover economic damages related to the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, President Obama said Wednesday.

Obama announced the agreement after meeting with BP executives at the White House. Chief executive Tony Hayward and chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg, were among the execs there to discuss the spill, which has become the worst environmental disaster in US history.

Kenneth Feinberg, an attorney who served as Special Master of the 9/11 victims compensation fund, will oversee the fund.

I'm sure this will be spun all kinds of ways, but this doesn't bug me. Let's see how it goes.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Far be it from me to support the guy; I think his handling of this has been miserable so far. But then again, I don't believe that our government is capable of creating value. So, big suprise. I don't think it would have matter who was in office. They would have done an abysmal job as well. The lesson that things like Katrina and this should teach us is that we depend far too much on our federal government. There are some jobs that they're just not cut out to do.

I don't think he's smart enough to capitalize on this. Not really, anyway. I think that's why we've seen him so disconnected. He's trying to find a way to capitalize on it, and there's not one. It's all downside. The only scenario where he wins is by plugging the hole, and he can't do it. All the might of our federal government isn't big enough to plug an 18" hole in the ground.

I think he certainly has an agenda, but the problem with this disaster, from his perspective is that this is really screwing it up. Spending political capital on this costs him in areas where he really wants to bring that "hope and change".

I agree with most of this, MacGyver, except the part about him being smart enough to capitalize on this. That's why he is usually so orchestrated (teleprompter) and has surrounded himself with the people he has. The only intelligence in him, that I see, is his ideological doctrine, which has allowed him to fool so many people into believing he is our one and only saviour.

His unwinding, unfortunately, may be this country's unwinding and I'll bet

this spill proves me right. Go back and review what he's said since during

the campaign, up to this point and see if you can find a common theme.

He wants ,at least, electricity to 'necessarily skyrocket' and I'll bet you he

wants the same for every other form of energy. He wants all the control

he can get over our lives so he can be the 'fascist' most communists

turn out to be. All he has done, since becoming our president, is cause

pain and cost money and we have let him get away with it.

If it's George Soros, Rahm Immanuel, David Axelrod or someone else, it really doesn't matter because he chose the company he keeps. That's

the only thing he is smart at; surrounding himself with handlers, and that is smart, just not for us.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Not to worry, Gov Crist is on the job!

PNSFW

[MacGyver]

I agree with most of this, MacGyver, except the part about him being smart enough to capitalize on this. That's why he is usually so orchestrated (teleprompter) and has surrounded himself with the people he has. The only intelligence in him, that I see, is his ideological doctrine, which has allowed him to fool so many people into believing he is our one and only saviour.

His unwinding, unfortunately, may be this country's unwinding and I'll bet

this spill proves me right. Go back and review what he's said since during

the campaign, up to this point and see if you can find a common theme.

He wants ,at least, electricity to 'necessarily skyrocket' and I'll bet you he

wants the same for every other form of energy. He wants all the control

he can get over our lives so he can be the 'fascist' most communists

turn out to be. All he has done, since becoming our president, is cause

pain and cost money and we have let him get away with it.

If it's George Soros, Rahm Immanuel, David Axelrod or someone else, it really doesn't matter because he chose the company he keeps. That's

the only thing he is smart at; surrounding himself with handlers, and that is smart, just not for us.

He's smart, I just don't think he's smart enough. I hope that this is what will save us from this mess. Not that he doesn't have an agenda. Not that he wouldn't love to capitalize on it. It's just that this wasn't in his gameplan, and politicians suck at improvising when things don't go according to plan.

I think that he's going to have so little political capital coming out of this, that it really won't matter what he thinks. Everyone that matters is going to see him as a one term president, and who wants to side with that?

Long term, our country is still on a collision course with calamity unless major changes are made. But, short term I think the best I can hope for is that he comes out of this with so little brand integrity that the DNC does what they're best at, which is screw around and accomplish nothing. If that gets us to November, then hopefully we can have a Republican majority in the house, a smaller democratic majority in the Senate, a lame duck president and complete and utter gridlock.

That sounds terrible, but I increasingly beleive that the less they do, for whatever reason, the better for us. Like I said earlier, our two party system is a true zero sum game. What's good for one party is necessarily bad for the other. The problem is that both parties have gotten so focused on looking out for and protecting the party that they've lost sight of the people.

That's the biggest problem in my book. We don't have a government "of, by and for the people", we've got two relatively small groups playing a high stakes game with our lives.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Amazing how short term memories are...

Yeah, these guys arent great, but neither was Cheney's Oil Summit, or the fact most of the rules and regulations the oil companies abide by were legislated in 1979...

The course has been set long before the 18 months these guys have been in.

The two parties are the cheeks around the same hole.

As for Fascism or other terms thrown loosely, those actions have been in the process since WW II.

Remember, the sole Super Power must be taken down by the rest of the world. This is the process, and has been since before Rome.

What we have now is the ever increasing powers of the Corporation over the People. This should be obvious now, with the "too big to fail" bailouts of banks and auto industry, and the huge profits and severe lack of safety by BP and the other oil companies. Note: The oil companies had to admit their safety plans were the same, and were useless, even having the same contact number for an oil spill specialist, a fellow who DIED 5 years ago... AND yet, they still got their $35 BILLION TAX BREAK. The Governments are no longer in power, the Mega Corporations are.

This will only get worse, now the SCOTUS has removed all limits on Corporate Funding of the politicians... Soon it will be Presidential Candidate Palin, brought to you by Exxon, President Obama, brought to you by Hemlock Superconductor, etc...

Edited June 16, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Guest 6.8 AR]

nevermind, bad connection

Edited June 16, 2010 by 6.8 AR