Class action suit filed against Knoxville for redlight cameras

[tennessee01tacoma]

Yes but we only have the red light cameras (they are easy enough to avoid)

The speed cameras are where I draw the line.

All the cameras in oak ridge are speed cameras 3 are at red lights which also record you running them and 1 on the turnpike is speed only, its complete bs. They even mail tickets to our ambulance service and they have to get out of them by sending in the corresponding run sheet.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

All the cameras in oak ridge are speed cameras 3 are at red lights which also record you running them and 1 on the turnpike is speed only, its complete bs. They even mail tickets to our ambulance service and they have to get out of them by sending in the corresponding run sheet.

Money $cam... Hope it gets overturned

[Guest 1817ak47]

They even mail tickets to our ambulance service and they have to get out of them by sending in the corresponding run sheet.

that's getting pretty bad.

I will just avoid going thru or even visiting oak ridge if at all possible after hearing this stuff, I have enough problems to get straightened out cause people can't get stuff right:rolleyes:

sounds like there are better places to spend my money and pay sales tax to.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

All the cameras in oak ridge are speed cameras 3 are at red lights which also record you running them and 1 on the turnpike is speed only, its complete bs. They even mail tickets to our ambulance service and they have to get out of them by sending in the corresponding run sheet.

Actually there are four.. the other one is on Robersonville at the elementary school..

[JAB]

I have never gotten a ticket from any of these cameras. That said, I despise the very idea of them.

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong - I am certainly no legal expert. That said:

If an officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket then you show up for the court date and he (or she) doesn't then the ticket is generally dismissed, correct? The officer can't simply send footage from his (or her) dash mounted camera with a third party but has to actually show up in court, right? So how in the hell does an automated camera show up in court - and how do images captured by that camera stand instead of an officer showing up? The two are nowhere near the same. Further, how do you give policing powers to a machine? Are the cameras owned by the city, etc. or are they owned by the company contracted to monitor them - in other words, does this mean not only giving policing powers to a machine but to a privately owned one, at that? Sending a photograph does not equate to showing up in court any more than an officer sending dash cam footage via someone who was not at the scene so how does that work? In other words, how are redlight or speed cameras even legal?

Edited April 28, 2010 by JAB

[mcurrier]

If this really was about safety I would get points on my license. If you want and you have the money you can run every red light in Clarksville every day. Just pay the fine and no problem. And this is about safety? NOT!

Agreed. Back in the 80's I was a lead-foot. I averaged 90 mph on highways. I rarely ever got nailed (twice in 10 years). I made a weekly trip from VA to PA. When crossing into PA they had the various fines posted on a sign. Just check your wallet to make sure you've got enough and you're good to go. Point is, like many of you are saying, it's about $, not about safety.

p.s. - Haven't had a ticket in over 20 years.

[Oh Shoot]

...Sending a photograph does not equate to showing up in court any more than an officer sending dash cam footage via someone who was not at the scene so how does that work? In other words, how are redlight or speed cameras even legal?

I dunno, but you pay it or else, that's for sure.

I got popped for one.

Didn't make a full stop before turning right on red. Pretty hard to refute the tape.

Far as cop using dash cam footage, I dunno, that may be legal evidence too for all I know.

- OS

[strickj]

I really don't see how anyone could have a problem with the cameras

I mean, don't run red lights or speed. Seems pretty simple.

I lived less then a mile or so away from one for a few years in Brainerd.

Never got pop'd.

They will not get you for running a yellow light. They will not get you if it turns red while you are under it. They will not get you for stopping in the middle of the intersection waiting for traffic to move\turn\etc.

They will only get you if your tires are behind the line when the light is red.

They promote safety at lights where cameras are installed.

I know I'll get flamed for that, but fact is, a rear end bump from slamming on the brakes is much better then a T-bone from someone running a light.

The cameras do not create rear end collisions, either.

The only way you can rear end someone is by following too closely.

Doesn't matter if the person infront of you slams on the brakes for a yellow light or a kid chasing ball into the street. If you're following too closely, you will hit the car in front of you, and it will be your fault.

I could also care less if the original intentions of the city to install cameras is solely fueled by cash, either.

When it comes down to it, I would much rather funds for city projects come from a "stupid tax" from law breakers versus my tax for doing nothing wrong.

[Guest Caveman]

I really don't see how anyone could have a problem with the cameras

I mean, don't run red lights or speed. Seems pretty simple.

I lived less then a mile or so away from one for a few years in Brainerd.

Never got pop'd.

They will not get you for running a yellow light. They will not get you if it turns red while you are under it. They will not get you for stopping in the middle of the intersection waiting for traffic to move\turn\etc.

They will only get you if your tires are behind the line when the light is red.

They promote safety at lights where cameras are installed.

I know I'll get flamed for that, but fact is, a rear end bump from slamming on the brakes is much better then a T-bone from someone running a light.

The cameras do not create rear end collisions, either.

The only way you can rear end someone is by following too closely.

Doesn't matter if the person infront of you slams on the brakes for a yellow light or a kid chasing ball into the street. If you're following too closely, you will hit the car in front of you, and it will be your fault.

I could also care less if the original intentions of the city to install cameras is solely fueled by cash, either.

When it comes down to it, I would much rather funds for city projects come from a "stupid tax" from law breakers versus my tax for doing nothing wrong.

Although I do not agree with you I do see your point. I have to ask though, do you not think this further opens up the door for more invasive forms of government monitoring and control? I'm sure England started out slow implementing the "camera enforcement" as well, now look at them. I am no trying to argue, only curious what your thoughts are.

[strickj]

Although I do not agree with you I do see your point. I have to ask though, do you not think this further opens up the door for more invasive forms of government monitoring and control? I'm sure England started out slow implementing the "camera enforcement" as well, now look at them. I am no trying to argue, only curious what your thoughts are.

JTBH, no I don't believe it will lead to further 'control' .

This is not England.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

This is not England.

Not yet, anyway.

[Guest Caveman]

JTBH, no I don't believe it will lead to further 'control' .

This is not England.

Fair enough. I know this is not England, I was alluding to the path our country is on and where it could be heading.

[Mike.357]

They will not get you for running a yellow light. They will not get you if it turns red while you are under it. They will not get you for stopping in the middle of the intersection waiting for traffic to move\turn\etc.

They will only get you if your tires are behind the line when the light is red.

that is not exactly true.

In Knoxville one of our drivers was in the intersection, entered it under green, traffic stopped. The truck was in the intersection at a dead stop when the light went yellow then red. We got a ticket in the mail. I was a passenger when it happened so I know this story is true.

Since they simply mail the ticket, I suppose in Eddie's scenario of non payment one could claim the ticket never arrived. We have all not received mail before. From time to time I get other people's mail in my box.

[molonlabetn]

that is not exactly true.

In Knoxville one of our drivers was in the intersection, entered it under green, traffic stopped. The truck was in the intersection at a dead stop when the light went yellow then red. We got a ticket in the mail. I was a passenger when it happened so I know this story is true.

Since they simply mail the ticket, I suppose in Eddie's scenario of non payment one could claim the ticket never arrived. We have all not received mail before. From time to time I get other people's mail in my box.

In the picture they sent me, the front tires were on the line, entering the intersection... I didn't pay it on principle, if they want to make an issue of it they should do more than just send a request for money with a picture, as if it was blackmail. If they contact me about it I have no issue telling them that I received it, and that I'll pay it only if a judge makes me.

[Guest 1817ak47]

that is not exactly true.

In Knoxville one of our drivers was in the intersection, entered it under green, traffic stopped. The truck was in the intersection at a dead stop when the light went yellow then red. We got a ticket in the mail. I was a passenger when it happened so I know this story is true.

Since they simply mail the ticket, I suppose in Eddie's scenario of non payment one could claim the ticket never arrived. We have all not received mail before. From time to time I get other people's mail in my box.

interesting to hear, this answers what I was always curious about. as I didn't know if they would do that or not, there have been a couple of times where I got held up by some slow a$$ going like 10 below the HWY speed limit w/o heavy traffic and surprised I didn't get a bill in the mail from KPD requesting a $50 donation.

wounder how many more people might try to join the class action bandwagon

[Guest bubruins]

I've been involved in many arguments about this subject, so I finally spent the time and went to a credible source. The North Carolina Department of Transportation did a study that concludes: " This analysis, which was based on an aggregation of rear end and right-angle crash costs for various severity levels, showed that RLC systems do indeed provide a modest aggregate crash-cost benefit."

Found at: Safety Evaluation of Red-Light Cameras—Executive Summary, FHWA-HRT-05-049

While I'll never be a big fan of red-light-cameras, this study did help me to understand how they are "justified." As a Utilitarian (so says my ethics class), the fundamental question for me here is this: Do red-light-cameras help more people in a greater way than they hurt the people paying the tickets?

Regardless of what any safety study says, I think that Knoxville should only have to pay back their citizens if state law prohibited the use of red light cameras before 2008. If they violated the state constitution, I'd be all for a huge class action lawsuit.

Edited April 29, 2010 by bubruins
added relevancy

[gnmwilliams]

Same here...I refuse to go to or through Oak Ridge because of the speed cameras.

Me too! I commute by hot air baloon. Gettin up early to inflate it stinks though. :-\

[strickj]

that is not exactly true.

In Knoxville one of our drivers was in the intersection, entered it under green, traffic stopped. The truck was in the intersection at a dead stop when the light went yellow then red. We got a ticket in the mail. I was a passenger when it happened so I know this story is true.

Since they simply mail the ticket, I suppose in Eddie's scenario of non payment one could claim the ticket never arrived. We have all not received mail before. From time to time I get other people's mail in my box.

Strange.

I've been stopped under the one I used to live by countless times when the crossing guard would stop traffic (school zone) or when someone infront of the row would turn into the Kangaroo excessively slowly.

Maybe the person that sent yours just wasn't having a good day

[greenego]

I have no problem with someone getting a ticket for running a red light. My problem with the red light cameras is that everyone I know that has gotten a ticket is because they didn't stop long enough before turning right, including my wife.

[Superposed]

I think the one place that the cameras have been a good idea are in the "S" curves on Hixson Pike in Chattanooga. It has really cut down on the bad wrecks on that part of the road. Other places I am not so sure about.

Superposed

[Oh Shoot]

In the picture they sent me, the front tires were on the line, entering the intersection......

I could watch whole video of mine online...bout 12 second clip.

Pretty clear I blew it.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

the first person who sticks duct tape over the cams in farragut gets my hero worship allotment for the year.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, to me it just takes a human being out of the equation, and eventually leads to

the elimination of a cop's job. I don't think any good cops should lose their job to a

camera.

As far as "Stupid Taxes" go, quit eating salt, they're going to make you eventually. Don't smoke, unless you want to get taxed. And don't drive. Those gas taxes are stupid, too. The ethanol in gas taxes that steak you might be eating. Stupid taxes are a rationalization for just another tax, which is "stupid".

[strickj]

Well, to me it just takes a human being out of the equation, and eventually leads to

the elimination of a cop's job. I don't think any good cops should lose their job to a

camera.

But you think a good cop would be better suited writing a ticket versus going after a domestic or gang banger

[Guest SUNTZU]

But you think a good cop would be better suited writing a ticket versus going after a domestic or gang banger

No, of course not, strickj, he should be protecting a mayor in Bermuda.