Where does RRA rank?

[Guest OttoMaddox]

On the quality and quality versus price scale, where would you guys say Rock river arms falls compared to some other recognized names? What differences make the difference? so to speak.

I bought mine blind and am real happy so far.

I'm interested in some feedback from some better informed folks.

[SL1M]

If this rifle is for when spit hits the fan, I'd get a Colt or an LMT/BCM/Noveske before getting a RRA. If I couldn't get Colt/LMT, I'd look at Bushmaster/Stag/M&P before a RRA. I only state this because FWIW RRA likes to "dremel" their feedramps instead of machining them, non-staked gas key, non-shot-peened bolts, straight FSB pins (you want tapered). A bunch of stuff that isn't "mil-spec."

I recommend you to build your own AR. You can get a LMT upper from Wes of MSTN or he can build you a custom one from the ground up. He's located in Collierville, so pretty close by.

btw S&W M&Ps are rebranded Stags, so you are basically getting a Stag.

Well, let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is the list that everyone has started to go by when buying complete firearms. I am not sure where RRA would be on the list or even if they would make the list. With that being said there are a lot of people out there who own and enjoy RRA rifles. Would I trust it with my life? I am not sure but it is better than nothing.

Makers to avoid: VULCAN, HESSE, BLACKTHORNE (they are all the same maker and make cheap junk that is out of spec or breaks easily).

I never really got into drinking the Colt koolaid. Although they make a good rifle but for the money a better rifle can be built for the same amount or a comparable rifle for less. Also, the reason they have large pin and small pin receivers is they sometimes drill the holes out of spec. Rather trash them like most others they just open the holes up to a larger diameter and presto you have a large pin receiver. So the large pin receivers are nothing more than a fix for a screw up while making them then sell them to the public because they are technically out of spec for the military. I know it is a money saving measure but I don't think there is anything else that has caused more confusion in the AR market than the large/small pin issue.

My personal AR is one I built about four years ago. Since then it has probably got 2000+ rounds through it and I have never had a single issue ever, not even when new. It shoots very well with my handloads, as in under and inch good at 100 yards. When I built it it cost me less than $800 and I have added about $200 worth of stuff to it not including the optics to improve it/customize it for me.

If you do get one I would get a 22 conversion kit so you can practice shooting for cheap. The kits can be had for less than $200 and will pay for themselves very quickly. I have literally fired well over 10K rounds through mine during practice/training. They make full size magazines that are reliable.

I would recommend a few things before buying a bunch of goodies for your rifle, if you do decide to get one. Find other people with an AR and try out their setups to see if you like and accessory before buying it. I have literally spent the cost of the rifle on accessories that now sit in a box in the garage because I thought I would like them but actually hated them. Also, there is a lot of junk out there since the explosion of the popularity of the AR in the last few years so definitely ask before buying.

I would have absolutely no problem trusting my rifle with my life. I used to work in high threat enviroments (until my helo accident) and take that statement very seriously. It has proven to be 100% reliable with every ammo tested and reasonably accurate with most.

Just some thoughts of mine

Dolomite

And as SL1M offered, if there is any other questions feel free to ask. There are plenty of knowledgeable people on here that will steer you in the right direction.

[GaryXD]

In addition to what the others have pointed out, RRA uses 4140 barrel steel instead of 4150CMV, no chrome lining in barrel and chamber (optional on some models), 6061 alloy for receiver extension instead of 7075, etc. I just don't see the attraction to RRA.

Edited April 26, 2010 by GaryXD
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[mikegideon]

Dolomite,

Thanks for the great post. I have been sneaking up on an AR purchase, and the first question was whether to buy or build. You just (mostly) convinced me to build.

[willis68]

Rock River Arms won the DEA contract with their Government Series Pro rifle. It Beat out Colt and several others. In the Real world the DEA uses their rifle I Loved the one I had and would trust my life to it any day. Their Barrels are Chrome Lined at least mine was. They went through a pretty sever proving ground to win this contract. They also have a Lifetime warranty on their rifles while Colt gives a year

Press Release on DEA Contract for RRA DEA/FBI Tactical Carbine

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/gm_oct04.pdf

Edited April 26, 2010 by willis68

[R1100R]

When I left FT Benning in 2005, most of the AMU guys I shot withowned them as their personal weapon and on the builds for their competition Rifle. At the Gun club ther they only carried RRA in stock. You could order what you wanted and had to pay up front for it. Those crusty old AMU Warrant Officers would go on and on about a RRA. That chart is somewhat outdated. S&W AR's are done in house. Only the first year Stag had something to do with it. I got that from their VP of customer service.

Edited April 26, 2010 by R1100R

[Guest OttoMaddox]

I should probably clarify this a touch. I'm most interested in the lower reciever from RRA compared to other lowers. I bought my complete RRA lower during the first days of the Obamanation and recently topped it off with an upper from Bushmaster. What I'm concerned with is things such as thread depth where the buffer tube mounts (wit the stock collapsed the threads show quite a bit) and a review on the trigger group etc. Thanks much for all the info so far.

Edited April 26, 2010 by OttoMaddox

[willis68]

I should probably clarify this a touch. I'm most interested in the lower reciever from RRA compared to other lowers.

They (the raw forged stripped lower) are manufactured by Continental Machine Tool, this same manufactures of Noveske's and Wilson Combat's. I love the RRA 2 stage trigger, The AR I last built uses a DPMS stripped lower with RRA internal parts and the two stage trigger and a Noveske upper half you will not go wrong with it

[Guest OttoMaddox]

They (the raw forged stripped lower) are manufactured by Continental Machine Tool, this same manufactures of Noveske's and Wilson Combat's. I love the RRA 2 stage trigger, The AR I last built uses a DPMS stripped lower with RRA internal parts and the two stage trigger and a Noveske upper half you will not go wrong with it

Thanks much for the on-target response!

[crashgordan]

RRA is good stuff.

have one w/ thousands (6k+) and not a single malf.

yes, i correctly staked the gas key.

my barrel is chrome.

it keeps on rocking..

i'd buy another.

and yes, the government picked it for one of their contracts.

not bad, and fit and finish is great.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

RRA is good stuff.

have one w/ thousands (6k+) and not a single malf.

yes, i correctly staked the gas key.

my barrel is chrome.

it keeps on rocking..

i'd buy another.

and yes, the government picked it for one of their contracts.

not bad, and fit and finish is great.

+1

Yes, there are several things on a RRA that are not "mil-spec."

My barrel is chrome-lined and ,yes, I did have to re-stake the gas key properly.

Over 3K rounds without a single malfunction (1200 in three days without cleaning).

That said, if I were buying an AR today, I'd probably get a S&W or Stag Arms (bang for the buck).

Edited April 27, 2010 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Traumaslave]

I have sold 6 RRA ARs and have been very impressed with fit and finish. These were sold to friends who work in high security areas, ie. Oak Ridge, who are Brand Whores. They buy nothing but brand names and quality. They have nothing but great things to say about their rifles. RRA builds to request with fair prices.

[Rightwinger]

Another very happy RRA owner. I'm brand stuck now.

[kb4ns]

I like my RRA. Well, my "mostly RRA". Everything but the lower receiver.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Never owned a complete RRA rifle, but if their two stage trigger is

any indication, they are just fine. I have only heard good things

about them.

[Spiffy]

If its for SHTF, you probably will only live through 2 firefights....... so after that it really doesn't matter who made your gun.

If your going to war, someone will issue you a weapon and you will have no say in what you get.

[Guest excatm76]

I've owned a few RRAs, LMTs and Bushys as well as a Noveske barrelled upper. I have a lot of professional experiance with Colts and FNs. IMHO RRAs are great rifles that need a little tweaking to make them 100% reliable. Specifically:

1. Order one with a Chrome Lined barrel.

2. Replace the Bolt with a MP'd bolt and extractor with crane o-ring(costs about $55)

3. Stake the gas key.

4. Stake the castle nut if it has a collapsable stock (I've never had one come loose, but it takes 5 seconds and is a little extra insurance.

5. If you're really annal replace the stock reciver extension with a milspec one, they are slightly thicker.

As for some of the things others have said. RRA barrel steel is just fine for anything short of sustained full auto fire. Straight pins are preffered ont he front sight base by many beacuse if you ever take off the front sight base it is a hell of a lot easier to get it back on and true to the reciever with straight pins. Tapper pins offer no real advantage.

The chart is all well and good if you want to compare everything with what Colt does. But when you start looking at things like a midlength gas system a lot of things on the chart becomes irrelavent. Such as the H-buffer this is needed on a Colt, however it is not needed and can be detrimintal to a midlength as well as some carbine length gas systems with a smaller gas port in the barrel than a colt. F marked front sight base agan is not needed on a midlength, not to mention some companies use the same height sight base without marking it with an F.

Now some things the chart dosen't list that you get with an RRA midlength:

1. 2 stage match trigger.

2. Guaranteed 1 MOA accuracy.

3. Enhanced pistol grip.

4. Midlength gas system for improved reliability.

5. Longer sight radius.

6. Lifetime warrenty.

7. Rear sight options.

For $100 you can get an RRA to be every bit as reliable as a Colt. It will cost that mutch to put an RRA trigger in a Colt and you still don't get an accuracy guarantee. Milspec requirenments for colt are I believe 3 MOA.

If you want a less expensive reliable M4gery I would get a S&W M&P. If you want a less expesnsive Midlength I'd get an RRA and do the upgrades I listed. If you want a true milspec AR-15 get a Colt. If you want the best spend a couple hundred more and get a Noveske.

Personnally I prefer to buy the upper and lower seperate. If I wanted to build one on a budget I'd get an RRA midlength upper from legal transfers, sell the bolt and buy a BCM bolt. I'd order a stripped lower and build it with the stock and trigger I want.

[chunkee]

Are Daniel Defense any good? Did not see them on the list? They have caught my attention.

JC

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Even Double Star is good.. there lowers are made in the same plant that Rock River gets theirs.

[Warbird]

Are Daniel Defense any good? Did not see them on the list? They have caught my attention.

JC

I think one of the links listed was old. DD is on the newest version of the list. DD makes an excellent quality rifle. They have great, very light rails and their barrels are CHF chrome lined of excellent quality. DD makes their rifles in house, making all of their own parts minus a couple of springs.

DD quality is right up there in quality in Noveske, BCM and Colt. I own a DDM4 and could not be more pleased with it.

[rjmech]

Are Daniel Defense any good? Did not see them on the list? They have caught my attention.

JC

DD has caught my attention as well. I've been looking at getting their midlength. Seems to be a lot of rifle for the money. I currently have a RRA Entry Tactical that has never failed me yet, the only gripe that I have is that it is a 16" Hbar, so it is quite porky compared to most carbines. I may send the barrel to ADCO to have it reprofiled.