Just what can one buy with a C&R?

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Ive ordered my forms last night from ATF online.

Would somebody tell me what all can I buy with a C&R license?

And, where can I find a list of qualified guns? Also, when I buy a C&R eligible gun, will I still have to pay $10 for the background check?

Would really appreciate knowing all the advantages to having one...thanks guys!!!

[Guest bkelm18]

You can buy C&R firearms and have them shipped directly to your home. No background checks. The main reason I got my C&R FFL was the dealer discounts you get at places like MidwayUSA. Go here, it will answer some of your questions:

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Curios & Relics

[Chucktshoes]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf

Here is the list published by the ATF of what is C&R eligible. The list is current through 2007, they annually(?) publish updates listing new items that are C&R eligible.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Ah, gentlemen.

Thank you very much for this info.

Anything else anyone can add appreciated.

[Guest pwhphd]

Other firearms [not on the list] may be eligible if manufactured over fifty (50) years ago. These firearms are only for your personal collection. The C&R is not for any dealer or distribution. It was created for collectors and is accorded vendor discounts by many distributors, just like a dealer.

[Guest DeadEye]

Here are some weird ones, while the SKS rifle is C&R, no Chin made SKS is, due to fact no date stamped on gun and is almost impossible to determine when made! If you add a Bay to a Chin SKS which did not have one when bought, then big trouble!

Also if you remove any part from a Yugo SKS, big trouble, like removing the bay or grenade launcher!

Same with Tokarev pistols, they are C&R except for the Yugo M-57, no date stamp!

The Czech made CZ-82 pistol is also C&R despite being made after 1982, somebody high up in Govt liked these and thus they are C&R!

[Guest gcrookston]

Here are some weird ones, while the SKS rifle is C&R, no Chin made SKS is, due to fact no date stamped on gun and is almost impossible to determine when made! If you add a Bay to a Chin SKS which did not have one when bought, then big trouble!

Also if you remove any part from a Yugo SKS, big trouble, like removing the bay or grenade launcher!

Same with Tokarev pistols, they are C&R except for the Yugo M-57, no date stamp!

The Czech made CZ-82 pistol is also C&R despite being made after 1982, somebody high up in Govt liked these and thus they are C&R!

Unless something has changed recently, Chinese Sks rifles in any configuration are not C&R

[1gewehr]

There is a LOT of misinformation here.

I suggest you go HERE for the real facts:

ATF Online - Publications - Firearms - Curios or Relics List

Three points of interest:

1) ALL firearms over 50 years old are C&R according to the law. That Remington 700 made in 1959? C&R.

2) At the bottom of the above link are TWO FAQs. Read them both, they will answer most of your questions. Some questions are on both FAQs, but some are not.

3) Most vendors are very cautious about C&R status. If THEY say it's C&R, it's safe to buy. The onus is on seller to know.

As mentioned above, many on-line sellers such as Midway, AIM, Century, Brownells, etc give dealer prices to C&R licensees.

Another good reference site is:

Welcome to Cruffler.com!

[kb4ns]

Like 1gewehr said, check the ATF site for more info. And to expand on what he said, guns over 50 years old are automatically C&R, but only if they have not been modified. Simple maintenance stuff (rebluing, refinishing stocks, etc.) will not end an item's C&R status, but massive changes to the gun would. I noticed a distributor selling sporterized 91/30's (they had replaced the original stock with a synthetic one) and they were advertising them as "C&R Eligible". I actually requested clarification from the ATF (and have the letter if anyone wants to see it I can scan it) and the ATF confirmed that changes other than maintenance-style changes will cause a gun to lose its C&R status. I asked and was told by the ATF in the letter that if I bought a C&R gun and modified it, I would have to log it out of my bound book. I'm still not sure how that entry is supposed to look in my log book since I wouldn't be transferring it out to anyone...

[kb4ns]

Also, like was previously stated, it's on the seller as well to confirm an item is C&R before transferring it to a C&R. Whether it is a private seller or a dealer / distributor, always check with them before trying to buy (or bidding on an auction) unless they clearly state it is a C&R. There have been several C&R guns on gunbroker that I would have bought, but the seller wasn't comfortable shipping to a C&R. And in a way, if it's not extremely obvious the gun is very very old, I can't blame them. You're dealing with an enforcement agency that has ruled a piece of string to be a machine gun.

[roverboy]

What I think is wierd is AK47's have been made for a long time and I've never seen one for sale that was C&R.

[Capbyrd]

What I think is wierd is AK47's have been made for a long time and I've never seen one for sale that was C&R.

Because some weapons will never be classified C&R. Most of those are evil and black.

[DaveTN]

What I think is wierd is AK47's have been made for a long time and I've never seen one for sale that was C&R.

I think it is because AK’s were select fire weapons. So any sold to the public are modified or reproductions on new receivers.

[roverboy]

Yeah your both right.

[Motasyco]

My first C&R purchase was a CZ82 from Classic Arms. What I saved on transfer fees and the background check paid for the C&R license. If I never use it again, it's paid for itself. It's hard to find a downside.

[willis68]

My first C&R purchase was a CZ82 from Classic Arms. What I saved on transfer fees and the background check paid for the C&R license. If I never use it again, it's paid for itself. It's hard to find a downside.

I think I will buy 2 of those for my first Purchase when mine shows up, they look to be nicely made fun guns to shoot

[Jasongar8]

I think it is because AK’s were select fire weapons. So any sold to the public are modified or reproductions on new receivers.

There are C&R machine guns. I havent seen any AK's, but there are some Thompsons and early beltfeds. C&R machine guns bring a big premium.

[Guest Fenris]

There is a LOT of misinformation here.

I suggest you go HERE for the real facts:

ATF Online - Publications - Firearms - Curios or Relics List

Three points of interest:

1) ALL firearms over 50 years old are C&R according to the law. That Remington 700 made in 1959? C&R.

2) At the bottom of the above link are TWO FAQs. Read them both, they will answer most of your questions. Some questions are on both FAQs, but some are not.

3) Most vendors are very cautious about C&R status. If THEY say it's C&R, it's safe to buy. The onus is on seller to know.

As mentioned above, many on-line sellers such as Midway, AIM, Century, Brownells, etc give dealer prices to C&R licensees.

Another good reference site is:

Welcome to Cruffler.com!

So to make sure I understand and so also ask if anyone else has done this with success:

I could then, in theory, buy a shotgun made before 1960 on gunbroker.com and have it shipped directly to me provided I gave the seller a copy of my license and obtained all the pertinent information from him/her?

[Guest DeadEye]

I know of many firearms that are over 50 yrs old and are not C&R!

[kb4ns]

I know of many firearms that are over 50 yrs old and are not C&R!

Please elaborate.

[kb4ns]

ATF Online - Publications - Firearms - Curios or Relics List

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
   
2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
   
3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
   

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories ( or © above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) for a formal classification.

[Bigiron]

I buy mostly from SouthernOhioGun, AIM surplus, J&G, FamilyFirearms&finishing. CenterFireSystems, Century, sell C&R as well. All of them require a copy of your CURRENT license to be on file before they will sell/ship. Really burns my butt that I cannot get an AK47 with a C&R license, but you CAN get an SKS. ???

[Volzfan]

I have had my C&R for about a year and have not bought any guns. I did fax a copy of my C&R to a few places like Midway and they have it on file. They also have me listed as a dealer and there is an automatic discount on most all regular priced items that they sell. If it is a sale item then there is no additional discount. Of course if you are looking for some high dollar optics, for example, the discount is larger than if you only want a $10 item.

[Guest Letereat!]

Would the CLEO in k-town(for purposes of obtaining ones C&R) the Sherrif For the County and the Chief of Police in the City??

[kb4ns]

Would the CLEO in k-town(for purposes of obtaining ones C&R) the Sherrif For the County and the Chief of Police in the City??

For ATF purposes, a CLEO can be the Sheriff or Chief of Police. I don't really think it matters. I live in Memphis, but sent mine to the Shelby County Sheriff. The Sheriff is the CLEO in any county, so it can't be "wrong" to send it to him.

Edited May 14, 2010 by kb4ns