next gun, pt709 or 380?

[Fire/hunting guy]

I'm trying to decide on my next gun purchase. I'm wanting something smaller to carry when I don't want to carry my 40sc. I'm looking at either the pt709 or a 380, either the ruger or Taurus. I have handled all of them. I'm not trying to start another "380 is too small" debate. I'm just looking for advise on something I could put in a cargo pocket. Is the pt709 slim small enough for this? I've already got a 9mm, so with that option, I wouldn't have to buy another ammo size. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Guest rystine]

Doesn't the 709 have a thumb safety? I personally don't like thumb safeties on defensive pistols, but thats just me. Take a look at a KelTec pf9 too. Not a huge fan of KelTec, but it's a very inexpensive gun, probably cheaper than either a 709 or a LCP. It's probably worth looking at Kahr CW9 also, or if you're willing to spend a little more, a Kahr PM9.

All of those should fit inside a cargo pocket.

[daddyo]

Before you decide, I strongly encourage you to do some research on the effectiveness of the 9mm vs the .380. Let the facts dictate your decision, not the opinions of others.

[VolunteerGuns]

With modern defensive ammunitions and propellants being used, the .380ACP IS an effective self defense round. That being said proper shot placement makes all the difference in ANY handgun use.

If I were to place 2 rounds of Critical Defense from my Kahr P380 (BUG) to the chest of an attacker and that doesn't end the threat, the next few will be headshots if at all possible.

[Guest m&pc9]

A good pocket gun is a snub nose 38.

[nolo]

Kahr pm40.

[daddyo]

With modern defensive ammunitions and propellants being used, the .380ACP IS an effective self defense round.

I would be happy to accept that if someone could show me FBI ballistic data showing that .380 meets the minimum 12" penetration requirement. So far, all anyone has been able to do is give their opinion.

When it comes to self defense, only facts should matter, not opinions.

[mousegunner]

For a .380, the original light-weight, and still the best, IMO, is the Kel-Tec P3AT. The price is low, and the customer service is great. They have turned out to be reliable little pistols. And very simple to operate.

[Guest peacexxl]

I just saw this thread listed in the dictionary under "thread jacking".

Anyway, I actually OWN a pt709 slim. It is very small for a 9mm. Shoots great, not nearly the felt recoil you might expect from a 9mm so small and light. Yes it could be used as a pocket pistol in loose fitting pants no problem, but I tend to use a light weight IWB holster and it disappears there as well. Reliable for me with everything except WWB ammo. Fed it several different hollow points as well as target rounds and eats them all but the WWB in my case. Others have said they have no problem with WWB but I can only tell you my experience. Fully adjustable rear sight is nice even though it is plastic, I am hoping for after market sights soon but these work fine so far.

Over all I love it. I trust it enough to give it to my wife as a carry gun which people who know me, know that is saying alot.

Goodluck making the right choice for you.

[Fire/hunting guy]

I just saw this thread listed in the dictionary under "thread jacking".

Anyway, I actually OWN a pt709 slim. It is very small for a 9mm. Shoots great, not nearly the felt recoil you might expect from a 9mm so small and light. Yes it could be used as a pocket pistol in loose fitting pants no problem, but I tend to use a light weight IWB holster and it disappears there as well. Reliable for me with everything except WWB ammo. Fed it several different hollow points as well as target rounds and eats them all but the WWB in my case. Others have said they have no problem with WWB but I can only tell you my experience. Fully adjustable rear sight is nice even though it is plastic, I am hoping for after market sights soon but these work fine so far.

Over all I love it. I trust it enough to give it to my wife as a carry gun which people who know me, know that is saying alot.

Goodluck making the right choice for you.

Thanks, that was the info I was looking for.

[Guest dboonekilledabearhere]

Have you looked at the Ruger LCR .38 revolver? Hammerless design, smooth lines and would fit inside the pocket. The new Walther PK380 is nice but may be too large for your needs. Good luck

[safeandsecure]

FWIW, bought the wife a 709. It's not my favorite carry by any means (grips are too small for me), but she likes it.

So far, it's gone "bang" each and every time the trigger's been pulled. No failures. Period. She's been used to a .22 Beretta Bobcat, so this was a big step up for her, and more importantly, she's CARRYING it. Times when she can't use an IWB or belt holster, she's used a belly band.

Like I said: not my favorite, but it's easy to conceal. It fits in the cargo pocket of my uniform, and so far, totally reliable.

[eapking]

Just talking ammo availability...I'd steer clear of 380. I can find 9mm pretty easily here, while I hardly ever see 380.

[Erik88]

I really liked my Taurus 24/7 so I'm not a Taurus hater, but I shot the 709 recently and it just wasn't for me. I really like my p238 for pocket carry but ammo is impossible to find or just way overpriced. There are a lot of trade offs involved

[Smith]

I've had several PF9's and played with both the taurus 380 and 9mm. The 709 is smaller feeling than the PF9. As hard as it seems to be to find 380 ammo and the fact it can be finicky, I would stick to the more reliable, verisatle, and available 9mm.

My pick would be the 709. However you might want to also consider CS, which is a huge nod to KT.

[lowbud]

I had the 709 and liked it better then the PF9. You shouldn't have any problem dropping it into the cargo pocket. Size wise they are about the same but the 709 is a little heavier which helps on the recoil. I could easlly drop a couple hunderd rounds through the 709 without thinking about it but I would never do that with the PF9 becasue of the recoil.

The 380 is by far the smallest, lightest for those times when you can't carry anything bigger, but if you can get away with carrying a little larger gun in the pocket by all means go with the 709.

I personally carry a PM series Kahr but there are times when I can't even carry that and opt for my P3AT.

[aquaman67]

I would be happy to accept that if someone could show me FBI ballistic data showing that .380 meets the minimum 12" penetration requirement. So far, all anyone has been able to do is give their opinion.

When it comes to self defense, only facts should matter, not opinions.

Here ya go slim, some updated .380 balllistic data...

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

[Fire/hunting guy]

Have you looked at the Ruger LCR .38 revolver? Hammerless design, smooth lines and would fit inside the pocket. The new Walther PK380 is nice but may be too large for your needs. Good luck

I like the looks of that gun. I'll have to get my hands on one to feel it out. How wide is that thing?

[The Scullinator]

I was going to tell a long story about my experience with the 709 but you probably don't really care so here's the short and sweet.

Right off the bat the firing pin wasn't hitting hard enough for the gun to fire 3-5% of the rounds (I put the unfired rounds in my sig and they all fired so I knew it wasn't just duds). This didn't bother me too much cause I figured it was an easy fix and if that was the only problem I still had everything I was looking for (small 9mm). Do a search and You'll find several rants about how much I've enjoyed the slim.

After about 500 or so rounds, cleaning it religiously, I started to get the occasional Failure to feed and failure to eject. cleaned it... same thing... cleaned it again... same thing progressively more often. I sent it back to Taurus in March and got it back in about 5 weeks. I took it out yesterday and before I got to 100 rounds the firing pin stopped striking all together.

We have 200 rounds through the LCP with out so much as a hic-up.

I hope I just got a lemon with the 709 but have read other threads with the same outcome. I plan on getting it fixed again and putting about 500 more flawless rounds through it before writing it off all together.

Wish me luck...

[daddyo]

Here ya go slim, some updated .380 balllistic data...

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

Thanks, slick. I'll read it tonight.