Legal distance to shoot attacker with a knife?

[Guest ImthePrez]

Whats the legal distacne for a HCP holder to shoot an attacker with a knife?

17ft?

Sorry if this has been posted

[Oh Shoot]

Whats the legal distacne for a HCP holder to shoot an attacker with a knife?

17ft?

Sorry if this has been posted

There is of course no definition of that in the TN statutes.

- OS

[Guest JonB]

I don't have a HCP so my opinion doesn't mean much but if they are close enough for me to see they are holding a knife then I'm not goin to stop and measure. As long as their intentions are to do harm with that knife then I say shoot when ready.

[Guest ImthePrez]

Really?? my instructor told me law was 17ft and I just wanted to double check.

[Oh Shoot]

Really?? my instructor told me law was 17ft and I just wanted to double check.

You maybe misunderstood. There's an oft quoted training example that a man can cover 21 feet in about the same time most people can draw a gun to defend, and various variations on that theme. Often called the "7 yard" principle.

If he really said that some distance is specified in the law, though, he's an idiot and you should inform him of that.

Even better, bet him a grand to show you "the law".

- OS

Edited April 24, 2010 by OhShoot

[Reservoir Dog]

As previously posted, there is no legal definition regarding the distance.

Based on numerous tests conducted by LE agencies, I would consider any knife-wielding individual within 21ft. of me to be an imminent threat. These tests have shown that a bad guy (with a knife) within that distance can charge and attack someone before they can draw and fire.

When it comes to knives, distance is your friend.

[Reservoir Dog]

OS beat me to the 21ft rule.

If he really said that some distance is specified in the law, though, he's an idiot and you should inform him of that.

Even better, bet him a grand to show you "the law".

Definitely make a bet with him. Free money!!!

[Guest ImthePrez]

he said 17ft...i wrote it down, but ive been looking and couldnt find a distance. I took the class last year but going over all the laws to refresh my memory.

Thanks for all the great info!

[Oh Shoot]

he said 17ft...i wrote it down, but ive been looking and couldnt find a distance. I took the class last year but going over all the laws to refresh my memory.

Thanks for all the great info!

Pertinent TN laws are at:

Legal Resources

39-17-13. Weapons

39-11-611. Self-defense.

(note: the carry in establishments that sell booze for onsite consumption statute is wrong, for now -- no carry there).

- OS

[Guest redbarron06]

As soon as I fear for my life of the life of a 3rd person I am clearing leather I dont care it is 7 inches, 7 feet, or 7 yards.

[eapking]

Reasonable distance will likely be "created" by the attorney of the plaintiff.

[Garufa]

Really?? my instructor told me law was 17ft and I just wanted to double check.

I suggest you call up whoever taught your class and ask for clarification. Because either you heard wrong, remembered wrong or the intructor was full of .

[Guest Daelith]

I'm not one who's any good at measuring distances so all I can say is...if someone is coming at me wielding a knife and I feel my life is in danger, then I'm going to neutralize his/her butt.

[Harold]

Don't know about legal but there is the Tueller Drill and practical side

Tueller Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tueller Drill is a self-defense training exercise to prepare against a short-range knife attack when armed only with a holstered handgun.

One would think that a gun beats a knife every time. With superior weaponry, the fight should be easily won. But Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department, showed that it was not that simple.

A common test of handgun skill was to start with one’s hands at shoulder level with a holstered gun and place two shots on a target 7 yards (6.4 m) away within 1.5 seconds. Typically, those trained with handguns can complete the drill in 1.3–1.4 seconds, although some have managed the task in less than one second.

Tueller wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover those same 21 feet (6.4 m). So he measured as volunteers raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"[1]

A defender with a gun has a dilemma. If he shoots too early, he risks being charged with murder. If he waits until the attacker is definitely within striking range so there is no question about motives, he risks injury and even death. The Tueller experiments quantified a "danger zone" where an attacker presented a clear threat.[2]

The Tueller Drill combines both parts of the original experiments by Tueller. There are several ways it can be conducted:[3]

1. The "attacker and shooter are positioned back-to-back. At the signal, the attacker sprints away from the shooter, and the shooter unholsters his gun and shoots at the target 21 feet (6.4 m) in front of him. The attacker stops as soon as the shot is fired. The shooter is successful only if his shot is good and if the runner did not cover 21 feet (6.4 m).
   
2. A more stressful arrangement is to have the attacker begin 21 feet (6.4 m) behind the shooter and run towards the shooter. The shooter is successful only if he was able take a good shot before he is tapped on the back by the attacker.
   
3. If the shooter is armed with only a training replica gun, a full-contact drill may be done with the attacker running towards the shooter. In this variation, the shooter should practice side-stepping the attacker while he is drawing the gun.
   

[redstategunnut]

The distance at which you can shoot a threat wielding a knife is the distance at which that person poses an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to you or to a third person. That, of course, will depend. I think if you are contemplating that you yourself are the intended or potential victim, the 21' rule would find substantial support in law enforcement, if you had not yet unholstered. I would say if you have drawn and are ready to fire, the distance might be somewhat within 21', but I'm not going to quibble over a yard or two if a man with a knife is advancing on a man with a gun. He's nuts, he means to kill me, he's going down.

Edited April 25, 2010 by redstategunnut

[Guest Broomhead]

Why would you want to shoot someone with a knife? Why not use a gun instead? It's much easier to aim.

[Guest Jamie]

A man with a knife charging me is going to start receiving bullets at about the 10 yard mark....

....unless it's a really big knife, then I'll start at 20.

J.

[BigPoppa]

If your HCP Instructor told you that there is a hard and fast rule or Tennessee law regarding shooting someone with a knife at a specified distance, he is misinformed.

For example, if (as I understand you) he said you can shoot a knife-armed assailant at 17 feet, but not 18 feet, that's not correct.

I'm hoping that you perhaps misunderstood him using a variation of the Tueller Drill that Harold mentioned.

If you didn't misunderstand him, then I would question other aspects of his instruction.

[Guest mosinon]

if you see a knife, just blast away because every knife is a threat. I shot my brother and 9 times when he was trying to fillet a fish three feet away from me. Cause,hey, he had a knife.

This is one of the things that irks me about gun ownership, one of the things a HCP is based on is common freaking sense. A guy with a knife is a threat when a guy with a knife is a threat. You're in the situation and you'll know better than anyone.

[G27]

So many variables involved, no way to answer.

Like, what if there's an automobile between you and the assailant? He could be less than 3 yards away and pose NOSE imminent danger...

[Guest Jamie]

...pose NOSE...

Is it just me or is there something wrong with that???

J.

[G27]

Is it just me or is there something wrong with that???

J.

Hahaha

It's not just NO danger, it's NOSE danger. That's like 11, more than 10.

[Guest Jamie]

NOSE way....

J.

[d7dun]

Judging precise distances under the extreme stress conditions of a critical incident, will be inaccurate at best. In fact, you WILL be wrong!

When anyone gives you an exact distance, that means if you are off by an inch or two, you are criminally responsible? I'm not thinking so.

It is getting to be a long time ago now, but I thought my attacker, armed with a large butcher knife, was about 20 feet away when he attacked. I was so certain that I gave that in my statement. I was way wrong!

Later through the investigation, it was determined he was six feet away. Even today, years later, in my mind's eye I would still think he was, at least, three times that far away.

All that was to say, it is not an exact or even an approximate set distance. A determination of Justified Self Defense will depend on the reasonableness of your actions to be decided by others long after you, hopefully, survive the critical incident.

I hoped that helped and added to the thread.

D

[Guest JustMyLuck]

It's amazing, some of the bad info these "instructors" put out there.

JML