1911's work when drenched in Mud

[willis68]

This video doesn't surprise me at all.

I carried a 1911 for eight years in the Navy using ball ammo and never felt like I was at a disadvantage should I ever have to use it.

I generally (although not 100% of the time) carry a 1911 now.

I own several 1911s; most now are "high-end" guns but not all and one is over 40 years old...I have no qualms about carrying and depending on any of them.

I also own a Glock (31) and a Ruger LCR and a Sig P220...all good firearms.

That said, I don't think anything on the market today can truly beat the design of the 1911.

Besides, Dirk Pitt carries a basic 1911 and if it's good enough for Dirk it's certainly good enough for me!

Another Clive Cussler and 1911 fan, I love it

[deerslayer]

Hardball dropped a lot of Nazi's and Japs... just sayin'.

Fill up your carry gun with them, then.

My Colt 1991A1 was a stock 5" gun. Like CK1, I've seen too many 1911s, whether a plain jane government or a $2500 Wilson, take a dump when somebody shoots the hell out of it. Glocks are simply more reliable--ball, hollow point, or whatever. None of my Glocks have ever blown up. However, FWIW, I'm in the process of breaking in a Springfield EMP, and have been pleasantly surprised--600 flawless rounds so far. If I decide that it's carry-worthy, I'll pick up a Trojan and move to ESP.

[Steelharp]

My EDC is an HK P2000.

[strickj]

Not sure of the surprise here.

1911's have been carried for 100 years in less then clean conditions by our troops and officers.

[Steelharp]

Not sure of the surprise here.

1911's have been carried for 100 years in less then clean conditions by our troops and officers.

See, most of the guys (WWI & II) that knew how they worked have, sadly, passed on. Most younger guys are only familiar with a more modern, tightened up target version that is not the best defensive option. The "surprise" is in that the younger set doesn't see how ANYthing designed more than 10-20 years ago would EVER have been capable of doing anything. (Like thinking a 20 year old woman would always be better at "things" than a 50 year old. )

[Guest cheez]

Not sure of the surprise here.

1911's have been carried for 100 years in less then clean conditions by our troops and officers.

Hmm I thought our troops had been carrying the Beretta M9 for over 20 years.

[USMCJG]

Hmm I thought our troops had been carrying the Beretta M9 for over 20 years.

Some of our elite forces continue to carry 1911s to this day.

[timcalhoun]

Fill up your carry gun with them, then.

My Colt 1991A1 was a stock 5" gun. Like CK1, I've seen too many 1911s, whether a plain jane government or a $2500 Wilson, take a dump when somebody shoots the hell out of it. Glocks are simply more reliable--ball, hollow point, or whatever. None of my Glocks have ever blown up. However, FWIW, I'm in the process of breaking in a Springfield EMP, and have been pleasantly surprised--600 flawless rounds so far. If I decide that it's carry-worthy, I'll pick up a Trojan and move to ESP.

I guess my question to you about the tight guns not running is this. Why is it that the guns with the best reputation for 100% reliability like Baer, Brown, Night Hawk are by far the tightest in slide to frame and barrel to slide fit and the factory rattle traps have most all the problems? Notice I did not put Wilson in there with the dependable ones. That company lost my respect 10 years ago but I still like their mags.

Edited April 24, 2010 by timcalhoun

[timcalhoun]

I don't know guys.. have to say I'm still 1911-weary.

I know Tim shoots 'em a boatload, but on the other hand doesn't seem to be what you'd exactly call a fan of "off the rack" 1911's either (don't think barrel-timing is even a thought when the production guns are being pumped out)... it's also real important to note that guys like him are a rarity as most 1911-worshipers spend far more time shining them then shooting them.

I'm not down on factory guns really, but what I expect from a factory 1911 and what most people expect are different. Most people buy a thousand dollar 1911 and if it has problems they say "for a thousand bucks this thing should be flawless". I say "It's amazing they are as good as they are knowing how much hands on it takes to build one correctly". I would not hesitate to buy a springer or colt or sti. I just would not be surprised if I have to adjust some things to get it to 100%.

BTW, the problems are almost always the extractor. The extractor can cause FTF, FTE, stove pipes, 3 point jams. And often the FP stops are too loose and will let the extractor clock. For the life of me I don't know why every company doesn't buy the rights to produce an AFTEC extractor and most all of this crap would go away. But, they would probably fit the FP stop wrong and the AFTEC cannot work unless that is right.

Sorry about the rambling.

[timcalhoun]

Here is a shirt you 1911 guys can buy for all you glock loving friends.

It's just a joke!!!!

[Guest CK1]

Most people buy a thousand dollar 1911 and if it has problems they say "for a thousand bucks this thing should be flawless".

See, think there's the problem that Deerslayer and I have... 1000 bucks would buy each of us both a brand new flawless running Glock.

[timcalhoun]

See, think there's the problem that Deerslayer and I have... 1000 bucks would buy each of us both a brand new flawless running Glock.

Hey, I won my first plaque shooting a glock at KY state. I know the platform well.

[RobertNashville]

Hmm I thought our troops had been carrying the Beretta M9 for over 20 years.

Yes; the change happened in 1986 if memory serves (thankfully, after I was out)...one of the very dumb mistakes our "modern" military has made in the past 25 years.

The Beretta 9MM is a good gun to have...when you don't have a 45ACP handy.

[deerslayer]

I guess my question to you about the tight guns not running is this. Why is it that the guns with the best reputation for 100% reliability like Baer, Brown, Night Hawk are by far the tightest in slide to frame and barrel to slide fit and the factory rattle traps have most all the problems? Notice I did not put Wilson in there with the dependable ones. That company lost my respect 10 years ago but I still like their mags.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Baer, but I've never seen a Brown, or Nighthawk that was 100% reliable. I don't recall ever shooting with anyone who had a Baer. All this talk of getting everything situated just so does not speak well of a 1911's ability to be 100% reliable. So far, my 3" EMP is the best-running 1911 I've owned, and that is sad.

[willis68]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Baer, but I've never seen a Brown, or Nighthawk that was 100% reliable. I don't recall ever shooting with anyone who had a Baer. All this talk of getting everything situated just so does not speak well of a 1911's ability to be 100% reliable. So far, my 3" EMP is the best-running 1911 I've owned, and that is sad.

If you lived closer (or are willing to come here) I would let you shoot my Brown, Nighthawk and Baer Believe it or not they all work 100% Crazy I know but after all that is what they are supposed to do. Every manufacturer has a problem child go out the door, it is not a perfect world.

I guess I have been extremely lucky as I listen to you and CK1 I have owned 12 1911's and every one of them has ran perfectly and given me no problems. As Tim Calhoun said 99% of 1911 problems are with the extractor My guns are tools I like Nice 1911's I spend a lot of money on them and I shoot the piss out of them. I have 3 Glocks and I like them very much but to me the 1911 is the perfect fighting tool and the best Handgun ever conceived

Edited April 24, 2010 by willis68

[Guest rystine]

Some of our elite forces continue to carry 1911s to this day.

I think this is just something that 1911 guys say, unfortunatly I don't think it's actually true. Every time I see a picture or news report about any SOF they are carrying HK's, Sigs, Glocks, or even Berettas. And every SOF type I ever met in Iraq carried HKs or Berettas.

Maybe there's some SUPER secret squirrel, ultra high speed, organization out there that may still carry 1911's (and if they are that "dark" than how do us mere mortals know what they carry anyway?).

But I'm sorry, I just don't think it's factual to say the regular secret squirrel, normal high speed guys carry 1911s anymore.

[Guest rystine]

Hardball dropped a lot of Nazi's and Japs... just sayin'.

9mm ball dropped alot of Nazis and Japanese too, and alot of Americans, British, and Russians. . . just sayin

So would you be happy with your HK if it only ran 9mm ball?

[Guest rystine]

I'm asking for trouble aren't I?

[strickj]

I think this is just something that 1911 guys say, unfortunatly I don't think it's actually true. Every time I see a picture or news report about any SOF they are carrying HK's, Sigs, Glocks, or even Berettas. And every SOF type I ever met in Iraq carried HKs or Berettas.

Maybe there's some SUPER secret squirrel, ultra high speed, organization out there that may still carry 1911's (and if they are that "dark" than how do us mere mortals know what they carry anyway?).

But I'm sorry, I just don't think it's factual to say the regular secret squirrel, normal high speed guys carry 1911s anymore.

Don't know if they still do or not.

Maybe I should have said 1911's have been carried by officers and troops for up to 100 years

Point is, they've been used in dirty conditions longer then any other handgun.

Both Military, Law Enforcement, and civilian.

[RobertNashville]

Don't know if they still do or not.

Maybe I should have said 1911's have been carried by officers and troops for up to 100 years

Point is, they've been used in dirty conditions longer then any other handgun.

Both Military, Law Enforcement, and civilian.

I don't think it's just "something that 1911 guys say" as was theorized above - I believe it's still true that current military users include, at minimum, Marine Force Recon and Delta Force. Beyond that, a lot of law enforcement agencies, including the F.B.I. HRT carry the 1911.

The 1911 is a legend and for good reason...whether any one person likes it or doesn't like is really pretty immaterial; it earned its reputation from decades of successful carry and use and even many of the "new" and "modern" handguns incorporate may features from the 1911 because even with all the CAD and modern expertise, J.M. Browning created something both special and not easily improved upon.

[USMCJG]

I think this is just something that 1911 guys say, unfortunatly I don't think it's actually true. Every time I see a picture or news report about any SOF they are carrying HK's, Sigs, Glocks, or even Berettas. And every SOF type I ever met in Iraq carried HKs or Berettas.

Maybe there's some SUPER secret squirrel, ultra high speed, organization out there that may still carry 1911's (and if they are that "dark" than how do us mere mortals know what they carry anyway?).

But I'm sorry, I just don't think it's factual to say the regular secret squirrel, normal high speed guys carry 1911s anymore.

Delta Force, Marine Force Recon, and the FBI Hostage Response Team all use 1911's.

[Moped]

I have both a Glock 17 and a 1911A1 Springer and love both. I wouldn't be scared to use either in a SHTF situation. The Glock is a Gen 1 that I bough back in 1990. Been an awesome pistol. The Springer a bought from a friend. Never had a problem with it and neither did he. I've been Shooting 1911s since 1982. Seen some that were not real good, but frankly they were were just worn out. Saw them rebuilt by military armorers during the ramp up for Desert Storm and they worked just fine afterwards.

Don't know if you guys watched them, but these guys also but a S&W 5900, Glock 21, and a Beretta M9 through the same test. the Beretta was the only one that choked. Check them out.

BTW, HUGE Cussler and Dirk Pitt fan too!

Edited April 24, 2010 by Moped

[Guest rystine]

Delta Force, Marine Force Recon, and the FBI Hostage Response Team all use 1911's.

I don't know about the FBI HRT. But I've yet to see anyone provide ANY proof that Delta, SF, SEALS, etc, still use 1911s. And I know that of all the Recon Marines that I interacted with in the Marines, including dozens of guys that I knew in MARSOC, there were ZERO 1911s.

Just cause you saw it on wikipedia or on a forum, doesn't make it true. Like I said, it's just something 1911 guys like to say.

[Guest rystine]

I don't think it's just "something that 1911 guys say" as was theorized above - I believe it's still true that current military users include, at minimum, Marine Force Recon and Delta Force. Beyond that, a lot of law enforcement agencies, including the F.B.I. HRT carry the 1911.

QUOTE]

See above.

[Steelharp]

9mm ball dropped alot of Nazis and Japanese too, and alot of Americans, British, and Russians. . . just sayin

So would you be happy with your HK if it only ran 9mm ball?

If it were originally designed to be a hardball feeder, that's what it would be. The problems ensue when we ask firearms to go beyond their original design specs. Not that it can't be done, as with any hot rodding of anything, but don't bitch when it takes time and money to get it to push what YOU want it to instead of what it's supposed to. Cough up the time and money, and be happy about it. This is like whining about "Why can't I shoot lead in my Glock? I WANT TO, SO I'M GONNA WHINE!"