Wanting a M1 Garand SA, Use some help

[chunkee]

I have my C&R and have an Enfield and Mosin and SKS and have been wanting a Garand for a while. I have linked a couple below, but am not certain if they are good deals or not. I am no expert and have read a great deal, but still am green about them. I do not necessarily need it as a collectors gun, as they are hard to come by. But the two linked below seem to be CMP type deals for the SA.

US Springfield Armory M1 Garand 30.06 Rifle w/ Kreiger Criterion Barrel

Springfield Armory M1 Garand : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com

Not certain about the one on Gunbroker, as he states put a CMP stock on it, then states it is a CMP gun.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

JC

[JR2ATN]

Why not just buy from the CMP? It's not difficult to become a member and you can be sure, depending on grade, that your Garand will have met certain condition requirements. And if you receive a rifle from the CMP and there is a part damaged or too worn they are good about making it right.

As for the Garand from AIM, if I was going to spend $1K on one I would go with a Correct Grade from CMP. All the parts would be USGI (no Boyd's aftermarket stock) and it would be in excellent, if not like new condition. The barrel on my HRA Correct Grade from CMP gauged a zero at both ends, indicating it was nearly unused. Not all of 'em will be that good (I handpicked mine at the South Store in Anniston, AL) but they'll be close.

[Guest gunsmoke308]

we have 1 at classic arms in cordova springfield $899.00 and good stock and bore is purty sharp call us 901-757-4655, will ship if we need to

[chunkee]

I looked at the places there, I am not a member of any of the membership places. I have been trying to find someone to sponsor me at the Oak Ridge facility as I live in Clinton..? I do not mind jumping through hoops, but I guess step one (membership) will be the toughest.

JC

Why not just buy from the CMP? It's not difficult to become a member and you can be sure, depending on grade, that your Garand will have met certain condition requirements. And if you receive a rifle from the CMP and there is a part damaged or too worn they are good about making it right.

As for the Garand from AIM, if I was going to spend $1K on one I would go with a Correct Grade from CMP. All the parts would be USGI (no Boyd's aftermarket stock) and it would be in excellent, if not like new condition. The barrel on my HRA Correct Grade from CMP gauged a zero at both ends, indicating it was nearly unused. Not all of 'em will be that good (I handpicked mine at the South Store in Anniston, AL) but they'll be close.

[JeffL]

The Garand Collectors' Assn. will satisfy your membership requirements. Your HCP satisfies your shooting portion of the requirements. You'll just have to show a birth certificate in addition to that and you're good to go.

[Tempest455]

I have the AIM and it's redone by James River. It's a top notch as you can get!

[Capbyrd]

If you wanted something similar to the one from aim, you could get the Special Grade from the CMP. It has the new barrel, new stock and everything has been reparked so you have basically, a re-arsenaled rifle. If I had a bit more money when I bought mine, i would have gone that route. For a little less, you can order a Springfield Special Grade and have "Collector grade metal" in new wood. You don't get a new barrel but the barrel should be in great shape. I paid 620 shipped for a Service Grade springer and I couldn't be happier. I don't have guages so I can't tell you the muzzle wear and throat erosion but the park seems to be very good and I got a stock that is going to clean up beautifully. I tore her apart last night and everything on the rifle matches date wise and manufacturer except I have an HRA trigger group. I highly recommend going the CMP route and if you need the membership part, just join the GCA. Its 25 bucks and takes care of that part. You can't go wrong with the CMP.

[chunkee]

Much appreciated. I do have my carry permit and NRA membership. CMP seems to be the way to go. I will get to geting the special grade.

The Garand Collectors' Assn. will satisfy your membership requirements. Your HCP satisfies your shooting portion of the requirements. You'll just have to show a birth certificate in addition to that and you're good to go.

[MikeW]

You made the right choice

[JeffL]

Much appreciated. I do have my carry permit and NRA membership. CMP seems to be the way to go. I will get to geting the special grade.

No problem. I don't think NRA membership counts. You can sign up for GCA at the link I posted or in store. Drive to the South store in Anniston, AL like I did. It's worth the trip to be able to pick out that special one that pops out at you. Muzzle erosion on the one I picked out was 0.5, almost a brand new barrel.

Gratuitous Garand porn:

[MikeW]

NICE! Jeff ....now you need one more Garand so you can make use of the stacking swivels

[Oh Shoot]

Where y'all getting safe ammo for these babies?

Have read that CMP is about only place for the military ball, and it's getting scarce there too?

- OS

[JeffL]

Where y'all getting safe ammo for these babies?

Have read that CMP is about only place for the military ball, and it's getting scarce there too?

- OS

CMP just got several million rounds in from Greece. I don't think I've ever heard an exact number, but they expect it to meet their demands for several years. Federal and Hornady both sell Garand safe ammo but it's about $1 a round. I've been saving my spent casings to reload when I get set up for that.

[Capbyrd]

No problem. I don't think NRA membership counts. You can sign up for GCA at the link I posted or in store. Drive to the South store in Anniston, AL like I did. It's worth the trip to be able to pick out that special one that pops out at you. Muzzle erosion on the one I picked out was 0.5, almost a brand new barrel.

The only problem with going down there is that there havent been many service grades on the racks for months. At least that is what I'm getting out of the reports on the CMP forums.

[Garufa]

Where y'all getting safe ammo for these babies?

Have read that CMP is about only place for the military ball, and it's getting scarce there too?

- OS

CMP has Greek M2 ball, although the price has gone up. Significantly. It was about $.27-.30/round a year or two ago. Now its around $.50+/round.

Those that cannot buy that surplus or reload generally buy an adjustable gas-plug to allow using commercial ammo.

To make a long story short, M2 ball is of a lesser pressure than commerical 30-06 and prolonged use of the '06 may damage the operating rod, a very expsensive part to replace.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Garufa

[JeffL]

The only problem with going down there is that there havent been many service grades on the racks for months. At least that is what I'm getting out of the reports on the CMP forums.

You're right about that. The Service Grade Special I picked up in November sure is nice though.

[Guest bkelm18]

I had a SA M1 Garand from CMP. Had to sell it due to unforeseen circumstances. Miss that gun. Nothing makes your spine tingle more than when you fire that last round and you hear that very distinctive sound of a Garand ejecting a spent clip.

[Tempest455]

My James River Garand manual said any factory ammo labeled ".30-06" Springfield" less than 180 grains was OK.

[Capbyrd]

Id still be careful. Get a schuster adjustable plug just to be safe. The bullet isn't really the issue as much as the burn rate of the powder.

[MikeW]

Id still be careful. Get a schuster adjustable plug just to be safe. The bullet isn't really the issue as much as the burn rate of the powder.

Correct,

The adjustable plug will safe the life of your op rod

[Tempest455]

OK, I want to play devil’s advocate here and ask a question: I don’t mean to ruffle any feathers, just asking. How many people here have actually had or seen a problem of a bent operating rod from high gas pressure on an M1 Garand, or is it something you have heard/read about?

I have spent hours upon hours reading about this subject and the most interesting comment I found was from a source that said, (and I paraphrase): While using commercial ammo in place of the military M2 ammo, can potentially cause a bent operating rod problem, it’s very unlikely and only seldom happens in match grade rifles w/ very high pressure ammo and heavy rounds. Something to that effect.

I sent James River an E-mail today and asked them about this. They confirmed what the manual said again, the rifle was designed for military ball; however, using 150g .30-06 “Springfield” would be fine.

I have done this a lot w/ hot rod and race car stuff over the years. If I’m told, “this part only fits this” etc. and I find that if look at all the parameters carefully, measure 3X and try it, sometimes it works.

Just curious if anyone has seen actual failures?

[JR2ATN]

I have only used milsurp .30-06 in my Garands so I have no first hand experience, take the following FWIW. A few years back I copied a response from the CMP forum from Gus Fisher pertaining to the Garand and commercial ammo. Gus was a Marine Corps armorer and is well respected when it comes to the Garand.

I ask Gus Fisher the following question and here is his response.

What I have not found or read is a first hand account of the M1 Garand failing from the use of commercial ammunition. Is this because the person did not live to tell the story? Or will the op-rod bend and not break or shatter and the rifle then will fail to function or to what extent will the damage be? I have read about the op-rods being cut so as to reduce stress on the op-rod when shooting grenades.

Curious minds want to know…

Gus Fisher's response...

The op rods got the modification cut because of the use of the early type grenade launchers where there was no poppet valve to release gas pressure. Hence, the metal parts and the stock took all the brunt of the force. That caused some op rods to crack even WITH the correct type of ammo.

Hunting ammo not only can cause damage to the oprod, but more importantly it will cause damage to the heel of the receiver where the bolt is going to smack it too hard and that will deform, then crack, then bust chunks off the receiver. Sometimes it goes straight to busting off chunks of the receiver before it does anything else. This all because powders are being used that are not in the correct pressure range for the rifle.

OK, so what do you do if you want to HUNT with a Garand? You HAVE to handload. You use bullets in the 110 to 175 grain area (no matter the style of bullet) and use the powder and amount of powder that is equivalent for the military loadings with those bullets in each weight. For deer, many guys use the 150 to 165 grain soft point or hollow point bullets, BUT of course, load it with the powder and in the amount of the pressure curve for the Garand.

If you do it this way, you don't need adjustable gas plugs. Or, if you do use hunting ammo in the Garand with the adjustable gas plug, you start with the largest hole insert and if that still allows the rifle to function, you STOP with that one. If it doesn't allow the rifle to function, go to the second largest size. However, be aware that if you get the really hot zinger ammo, even with the largest hole, you are probably still battering the heel of the receiver too hard and are setting the receiver up for failure.

Edited April 23, 2010 by JMR1138