Is it illegal?

[Guest clsutton21]

Well I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he saw my knife in the door and told me it is illegal to carry. Now I've always heard the rule is 4" blade, this one has a 4 1/16" blade. He also said it was illegal to carry because it was a dagger since the edges aren't sharpened. It's really just a boot-knife. Opinions?

[Guest redbarron06]

Blade is measured from the hilt not the begining of the cutting surface.

I am pretty sure that somewhere in TCA it talks about "the intent to go armed" and referes to many items other than guns.

[Oh Shoot]

Blade is measured from the hilt not the begining of the cutting surface...

Correct, as far as I know, so that one would be significantly illegal (looks like way more than 1/16" back toward guard). Certainly, most all knife manufacturers measure their blades from exposed area, not just sharpened part.

Daggers are not illegal, even if they have both edges sharpened, except on school property (assuming 4" or under).

But not sure why they are mentioned specifically in the school weapons statute along with hawkbills and whatever else, since all knives are forbidden period.

- OS

Edited April 21, 2010 by OhShoot

[Guest Jamie]

Well I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he saw my knife in the door and told me it is illegal to carry. Now I've always heard the rule is 4" blade, this one has a 4 1/16" blade. He also said it was illegal to carry because it was a dagger since the edges aren't sharpened. It's really just a boot-knife. Opinions?

I have one here just like it, except I've taken the rubber grip off of it, with the intention of putting on a wooden one some time.

Yes, it's illegal, due to the blade being 4-3/4" long.

And I do seem to remember that "dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives" as being specifically mentioned as forbidden, in the illegal weapons portion of Tn. law, without any particular regard to blade length.

Oh, and "Boot Knife" is pretty much a generic term for any small fixed blade knife, irregardless of style/type.

J.

[Oh Shoot]

...

And I do seem to remember that "dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives" as being specifically mentioned as forbidden, in the illegal weapons portion of Tn. law, without any particular regard to blade length....

Wow. Are you still a LEO?

Switchblade is only forbidden knife in prohibited weapons statute.

Only mention of "dirks, daggers, etc" is per carry on school grounds statute.

- OS

[Guest redbarron06]

Here you go

39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon. —

(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4²), or a club.

39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons. —

(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:

(1) An explosive or an explosive weapon;

(2) A device principally designed, made or adapted for delivering or shooting an explosive weapon;

(3) A machine gun;

(4) A short-barrel rifle or shotgun;

(5) A firearm silencer;

(6) Hoax device;

(7) A switchblade knife or knuckles; or

(8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose.

so you could be charged with violations of at least 2 different laws.

[Guest Jamie]

Wow. Are you still a LEO?

Nope, and it's been a while since I rummaged around the law books for info on knives.

Switchblade is only forbidden knife in prohibited weapons statute.

Only mention of "dirks, daggers, etc" is per carry on school grounds statute.

- OS

Yes, I'm aware of the "school grounds" laws. But I do believe that the above items, along with sword canes and such, are - or were - mentioned elsewhere in the statutes.

Quite a bit of the title 39 stuff has been changed in the last 10 - 12 years, and I fully admit that I haven't kept up with all of 'em.

J.

[Guest clsutton21]

Is protection where I can't carry, "common lawful purpose"?

[Oh Shoot]

Nope, and it's been a while since I rummaged around the law books for info on knives.

Ah, okay.

That's okay that you don't know, then, unless you wanted to try a citizen's arrest.

Yes, I'm aware of the "school grounds" laws. But I do believe that the above items, along with sword canes and such, are - or were - mentioned elsewhere in the statutes. ...

Not any more, if they were.

I'd say the "knife over 4 inches" and "any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose" must cover the sword thing these days.

Clubs are still specifically mentioned.

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

Ah, okay.

That's okay that you don't know, then, unless you wanted to try a citizen's arrest.

Screw that. If they're causing that much of a problem, I'd probably just shoot 'em.

Clubs are still specifically mentioned.

Which I find particularly goofy, since a person can ( could? ) carry an ASP baton, if they'd gotten the certification.

J.

[Guest redbarron06]

Is protection where I can't carry, "common lawful purpose"?

That is an intent to go armed which means you are not lawfully carrying.

[Guest clsutton21]

That is an intent to go armed which means you are not lawfully carrying.

Laws are so backwards, they only protect the criminals.

[Punisher84]

Which I find particularly goofy, since a person can ( could? ) carry an ASP baton, if they'd gotten the certification.

The certification is only a defense to carrying a baton. It's gonna be up to the individual officer if they arrest you for it or not.

[Oh Shoot]

The certification is only a defense to carrying a baton. It's gonna be up to the individual officer if they arrest you for it or not.

Well, hell, HCP is only a defense to illegal possession or carrying, too.

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

The certification is only a defense to carrying a baton. It's gonna be up to the individual officer if they arrest you for it or not.

Most of the LEOs I know won't bother with an arrest for something they know the judge will throw out, and/or chew them out for.

Oh, and the certification process for a baton is a joke, in my opinion. Went through it as part of in-service training, once, and about all I can say for it is that it was good exercise, and fun to whop people with a padded stick.

J.

[Oh Shoot]

Most of the LEOs I know won't bother with an arrest for something they know the judge will throw out, and/or chew them out for.

Oh, and the certification process for a baton is a joke, in my opinion. Went through it as part of in-service training, once, and about all I can say for it is that it was good exercise, and fun to whop people with a padded stick.

J.

I believe it was Suntzu told me that the certification is only good for so long, and you have to re-certify?

I don't know where in the TCA that is, though?

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

I believe it was Suntzu told me that the certification is only good for so long, and you have to re-certify?

I don't know where in the TCA that is, though?

- OS

I'm afraid I don't know either, OS... I only carried one while on duty and have no idea where the certificate may be now, if the SO even ever bothered handing one out. I think they ran us through the course as much to burn up training hours as anything.

As for the TCA... that's another one I never bothered to look up.

I can tell you I never encountered anyone other than an officer carrying one, the whole time I was with the SO.

Not saying no one else did, only that I never ran into 'em....

J.

[Punisher84]

Well, hell, HCP is only a defense to illegal possession or carrying, too.

- OS

Yea, but an HCP is an actual state issued license to carry a handgun. An impact weapon certification simply says you took a class that taught you how to use it.

Most of the LEOs I know won't bother with an arrest for something they know the judge will throw out, and/or chew them out for.

Oh, and the certification process for a baton is a joke, in my opinion. Went through it as part of in-service training, once, and about all I can say for it is that it was good exercise, and fun to whop people with a padded stick.

J.

You're right, but my point has always been that it could happen.

I believe it was Suntzu told me that the certification is only good for so long, and you have to re-certify?

I don't know where in the TCA that is, though?

- OS

It doesn't expire.

[Oh Shoot]

Yea, but an HCP is an actual state issued license to carry a handgun. An impact weapon certification simply says you took a class that taught you how to use it.

Well, both exactly comply as defenses to exactly the same charge which stipulates the same penalty, so certainly they are of equal weight in that sense.

It doesn't expire.

(club/baton certification).

Ah, interesting, I was misinformed, thanks.

- OS

[Punisher84]

Well, both exactly comply as defenses to exactly the same charge which stipulates the same penalty, so certainly they are of equal weight in that sense.

(club/baton certification).

Ah, interesting, I was misinformed, thanks.

- OS

I know it's been debated here before, but Fallguy even posted something before from the AG and his opinion was that an HCP and a baton certification were not the same thing.

[Oh Shoot]

I know it's been debated here before, but Fallguy even posted something before from the AG and his opinion was that an HCP and a baton certification were not the same thing.

Who said they were?

You can't carry a baton with an HCP only.

You can't carry a handgun with a baton cert only.

However, the charge is the same for carrying either one, is all I'm saying -- so they're certainly of equal weight as for as preventing you doing possible 11/29 in the hoosegow.

I wish there were a certification to carry a knife over 4".

- OS

[Punisher84]

Who said they were?

You can't carry a baton with an HCP only.

You can't carry a handgun with a baton cert only.

However, the charge is the same for carrying either one, is all I'm saying -- so they're certainly of equal weight as for as preventing you doing possible 11/29 in the hoosegow.

I wish there were a certification to carry a knife over 4".

- OS

You said the weight of the cert and permit were equal. The AG disagrees. That was my point.

The baton certification is not to allow you to carry it. Impact weapon and Chemical Weapon certifications are for liability reasons. Security personnel get the cert so they can show they've been properly trained to use it. It doesn't allow you to carry it wherever you please.

The Handgun Carry Permit is a training class specifically designed for you to carry a firearm and the state issues you a license for this purpose. Guard licenses,impact weapon, electronic stun device, and chemical weapon certifications are issued by the TN state private protective services bureau.

I know there are people here that train average joes to use the impact weapon, but it is going to be up to the individual officer/attorney/judge/jury to determine if you were in the right by carrying it or using it.

[Oh Shoot]

...

The baton certification is not to allow you to carry it...

Good Lord, we had argument over nothing, now an argument over something.

Read the statutes.

The CHARGE is

39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon. —

The DEFENSE is

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

The impact weapon certification IS a defense to unlawful CARRYING of a club/baton, just as an HCP is a defense to unlawful CARRYING of a handgun.

The possible max penalty for carrying either is Class A misdemeanor.

The HCP or baton certification negates that penalty.

In that sense, they have the same "weight", if you will, that being, keeping you out of jail for carrying your weapon of choice.

Of course, you can still be charged with murder for using either one.

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

Okay, I looked it up...

39-17-1308 - Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;

(9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws; or

So apparently a HCP and a baton certificate do carry equal weight in the eyes of the law.

It would seem that if you can't own a gun you can't carry a baton either though. A useful bit of information, that.

J.

[Punisher84]

Well, holler at me when there's a test case for it.