Campus Carry

[Ebow1]

I'm doing my final speech for my class at Nashville State on why people should be allowed to carry on campuses if they have a carry permit. I've already been to concealedcampus.com and I've grabbed a couple useful historical quotes. I just want to hear the opinions of the TGO members to make I've got all my bases covered and to see if any of you guys have any particularly well worded thoughts on the subject that I can plagiarize.

[Daniel]

I work behind there.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

Here's a thread at TGO about a response I wrote to a column in Vanderbilt's student newspaper.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/35705-vanderbilt-student-newspaper-exchange-school-shootings.html

[Guest oldsmobile98]

By the way, thanks for doing your part. Hopefully we can get a concealed carry on campus law passed in Tennessee this coming year. I am going to let my State Representative and State Senator know that they need to introduce such a bill and vote for it if they want my vote this November.

One issue that opens some eyes is rape prevention. Recently there was an article in Vanderbilt's student newspaper about campus rape (http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/node/13944). Here's an excerpt:

Nationally, less than half — 47 percent — of the rape or sexual assaults against females in 2008 were reported to police, according to the 2008 National Crime Victimization Survey. But the percentage of rapes committed on college campuses that are actually reported is much lower; Shaffer estimates that only approximately 5 percent of rapes are reported.

Recognizing our right to carry on campus will reduce actual rapes. There is zero doubt in my mind. Zero. Edited April 15, 2010 by oldsmobile98

[Guest RevScottie]

My daughter attends the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. She recently had her car stolen and another female student was carjacked. Both incidents occured during daylight hours in a highly active part of the campus. The UTC campus is bordered by some of the highest crime districts in Chattanooga. While researching for a paper on campus security my daughter found that UTC has only 2 active patrol officers for a school with over 10,000 students. Why should my daughter give up her right to protect herself? Obviously the police cant protect her when their response to crime on campus is that all students should walk to their cars in groups while on campus even during broad daylight!

[Guest oldsmobile98]

My daughter attends the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. She recently had her car stolen and another female student was carjacked. Both incidents occured during daylight hours in a highly active part of the campus. The UTC campus is bordered by some of the highest crime districts in Chattanooga. While researching for a paper on campus security my daughter found that UTC has only 2 active patrol officers for a school with over 10,000 students. Why should my daughter give up her right to protect herself? Obviously the police cant protect her when their response to crime on campus is that all students should walk to their cars in groups while on campus even during broad daylight!

It's insanity.

My sister is a freshman at Belmont University. I am (hopefully) graduating this May, but the issue of carry on campus will remain important to me. I plan to fight until they pass the law.

Welcome to TGO, by the way.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

Also, EBow1, here's an article about concealed carry on campus in Utah. It's old, and I don't know if the law has changed since it was published, but the point remains:

College students carried, legally, and the sky did not fall. Neither did the streets run with blood.

Utah students hide guns, head to class - CNN.com

[jtluttrell]

Probably the best thing I've heard lately was the Legislation in Kansas(?) that would require places banning carry to provide security.

I think that this strikes right at the heart of the right to carry. This puts law abiding citizens in jeopardy by asking asking them to enter a place unarmed but not even attempting to see that it is enforced on everybody, even murdering criminals.

When I disarm to enter say, the courthouse, I feel better knowing that nobody has a gun.

Just my . FWIW

[Guest 270win]

If you have a license, you can carry a handgun on K-12 schools and colleges in Alabama. You may be breaking policy, but you are not breaking state law down there.

I don't know why TN doesn't create an exception for those with permits on school property like Alabama does. Kids who are on shooting teams can have guns on school property, but adults 21 and over who have had background checks can't in TN...that's crazy and makes no sense.

[Guest RevScottie]

And who is going to protect you against crazy professors who decide to shoot students and other faculty?

[Guest RevScottie]

It's insanity.

My sister is a freshman at Belmont University. I am (hopefully) graduating this May, but the issue of carry on campus will remain important to me. I plan to fight until they pass the law.

Welcome to TGO, by the way.

Belmont has a beautiful campus. My daughter attended an accounting academy there last summer and I went to the Hillsong concert. How is crime around campus?

Thanks for the welcome!

[JayC]

Belmont has a beautiful campus. My daughter attended an accounting academy there last summer and I went to the Hillsong concert. How is crime around campus?

Thanks for the welcome!

I wouldn't walk around there in daylight without a firearm let alone at night... Less than a mile from the Belmont campus it's a very very bad part of town.

[Guest no_masters]

I wouldn't walk around there in daylight without a firearm let alone at night... Less than a mile from the Belmont campus it's a very very bad part of town.

I live right next to belmont and agree. Edgehill projects are just on the other side of wedgewood ave. I walk/ride around the area all the time and always see sketchy people around that campus.

[Ebow1]

Thanks for all the input guys. I used to deliver bagels to Belmont in the mornings, I know that Wedgewood area somewhat, and yeah, just driving through Edgehill makes me nervous.

[Guest Moss88hunter]

I go to school at UT Martin and last summer into the beginning of the fall 09 semester there was a serial rapist here. He was armed and would break into the girls houses and wait for them to arrive home. I can't remember the exact number but I am wanting to say that he raped either 3 or 4 girls. The worst one was the week that students were moving in. He was waiting as the girl and her parents who were helping her move in entered her apartment. He tied them all up and forced her parents to watch as he raped their daughter.

I am sorry to be so descriptive but this is real. This is just one case of the sick individuals out there. This case was just one that hit too close to home. The predator's name was Bruce Tuck and he will be rotting in jail until he is 95 thanks to the great work of Martin PD. Needless to say there were many people that were disappointed that he got off as easy as he did. Why are students forced to place themselves in a position where they can no longer protect themselves in order to better themselves?

[TMMT]

I think the evidence that the worst mass shootings always take place in these so called gun free or crime free zones should be evidence enough to support the argument that there is a problem with the idea that prohibiting gun possession by law abiding people will stop or deter crime.

In every case the gunman was not the lest bit deterred by any posted prohibition against carry. Yet still went on to commit mass murder.

You don't see these types of attacks at gun shows or even large public gathering where the law allows the public to carry concealed or open. And there is a reason for it.

Its been established by studies conducted on convicted criminals that they will weigh the possibility of their victim being armed against any planned attack.

I think the same holds true with school shootings. None of these folks were so crazy they would not of be found fit for trial because they clearly make well thought out, calculated plans to conduct their attacks.

Harris and Klebold planned the Columbine attack for months as did Cho including diary entries and photographic evidence of their plans.

They were not crazy. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Just like someone intending on committing suicide by cop. They know exactly what they are doing.

[TMMT]

just driving through Edgehill makes me nervous.

Awe heck son, Edgehill is kindergarden stuff. Go visit the Nations, Bordeaux or the areas between Hadley and Buena Vista parks.

[eapking]

The place I feel safest in Memphis is surrounded by one of the worst neighborhoods in Memphis, and that place is...drum roll....

The parking lot of Guns & Ammo on Summer. Nothing's gonna happen there because THE CRIMINALS KNOW EVERYONE IS PACKING!!!!

When are the damn liberal, anti-gunners gonna get this fact? It's not less guns needed...it's more!!!

[Ebow1]

TMMT-I've been through the nations, not anytime recently, but I know the area. Also, do you have links to these studies? I've been through parts of New Orleans and Baton Rouge much worse then anything in TN. The kinda places where you're at serious risk simply because you're white.

Eapking-I know a true story about a man who tried to rob a gun store. Don't know any of the names involved and I don't remember where, what I do remember is that the staff, the on duty officer, and the customers all drew on him. One of the customers got the first shot off and took him out.

[1gewehr]

A couple of points:

1) Colleges are more vulnerable to crimes than many other places because you have a relatively naive and trusting population that has not yet learned to be aware of crime and dangerous situations.

2) Add in that colleges try VERY hard to not publicize crimes which occur on campus as that is detrimental to recruiting, alumni giving, and enrollment.

3) Studies have shown that criminals actually TARGET college campuses as they know the victims are incapable of protecting themselves, and police response is very slow to non-existent.

4) Recent statistics show that campus violence is on the rise. This will continue to rise until we take common-sense measures to protect our college students, such as allowing adults who can legally carry to do so on campus, and forcing colleges to actively report crimes.

[Kelemvor]

Awe heck son, Edgehill is kindergarden stuff. Go visit the Nations, Bordeaux or the areas between Hadley and Buena Vista parks.

+1 The Edgehill area is pretty tame. I worked in all those areas of town disconnecting cable when I was 19-20 and the guys that are scared of Edgehill would be terrified. And I went there to tell the people, "Hey, you Comcast $300 in overdue cable bills. You don't have $300? Then, I'm disconnecting your cable." No, I didn't have a gun.

Anyway, campus carry is a big deal. I go to TSU, which is in the middle of all the areas that TMMT mentioned and I feel like school is the place where I need a gun the most. A couple weeks ago there was a shooting in the middle of the day at 28th and Clifton and that's where a lot of students, including myself, go to eat lunch on a regular basis. It's insane to take our defense away especially at a school surrounded by low-income areas with serious drug/gang problems.

[Ebow1]

Yeah, drivers for the Charlotte store hate TSU just because of the odds they'll get robbed.

[Guest 270win]

There are all sorts of options if you can't legally carry a handgun on you in this state on school property in TN.

I'm not a big fan of pepper spray, but there's some decent ones out there like Kimber and Fox labs. I think they are good options for people who are not willing/have skill to carry handguns. Spray would put distance between you and an attacker. Stun guns might also work...I know the police style ones you only get one shot though...so better make it count.

Knives you have to get pretty close to use it on someone. A kiddie baseball bat, glove, and ball might be handy in the vehicle....so would a nice 3 d cell Mag Light in your backpack/car. You might need to hammer some nails...so a hammer comes in handy for that and would work in the floorboard.

I personally kept a loaded long gun in my vehicle on college campus because it was legal in Arkansas...i'm not sure about TN for students...even with the wording on long guns changed that if you have a permit you can't be charged with 'intent to go armed' with a loaded mag and unloaded chamber....kinda strict laws here.