Why do you not ship?

[Mark@Sea]

I recently shipped (through an ffl) two long guns in a trade. The recipient decided he didn't want to trade, but instead buy outright for the values I assigned in the swap. I wouldn't have sold them in the first place, I wouldn't have sold them for the low value I put on them in the swap in the second place, and it took him three months to pay for one and return the other. Nor did he pay for my shipping costs. Last time I do anyone I don't know any favors, unless someone I know well is willing to vouch for them.

[Mike.357]

Yes you can ship any LONG-GUN to another TN resident legally ,but if the buyer buys ammo from you you are required to shipthe ammo seperate the easiest and cheapest way is use the post office, but as far as hand guns you can't ship them legally without using an FFL. Im not saying that you can Im just saying its not legal.

I am not sure if this is what you meant, but you can't ship ammo through the US postal service

I recently shipped (through an ffl) two long guns in a trade. The recipient decided he didn't want to trade, but instead buy outright for the values I assigned in the swap. I wouldn't have sold them in the first place, I wouldn't have sold them for the low value I put on them in the swap in the second place, and it took him three months to pay for one and return the other. Nor did he pay for my shipping costs. Last time I do anyone I don't know any favors, unless someone I know well is willing to vouch for them.

that totally sucks Mark. I bet the guy had not swapping on his mind the entire time. Was it someone from TGO? NO way am I shipping to a member here if I have not had some interaction with them prior.

[lowbud]

I recently shipped (through an ffl) two long guns in a trade. The recipient decided he didn't want to trade, but instead buy outright for the values I assigned in the swap. I wouldn't have sold them in the first place, I wouldn't have sold them for the low value I put on them in the swap in the second place, and it took him three months to pay for one and return the other. Nor did he pay for my shipping costs. Last time I do anyone I don't know any favors, unless someone I know well is willing to vouch for them.

I got stuck on another forum last year. It sucks. I'm not so trusting anymore and only deal locally when talking other than cash deals.

[Mark@Sea]

Wasn't a tgo member - I was trying to acquire another military truck.

[Guest ADAM]

I am not sure if this is what you meant, but you can't ship ammo through the US postal service

you can ship it just not in the same box as weapon.

[Oh Shoot]

... you are required to shipthe ammo seperate the easiest and cheapest way is use the post office,...

No no no.

No live ammo through USPS.

None. At all. Ever.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

you can ship it just not in the same box as weapon.

Nope.

These items can never be mailed in any quantity:

· Alcoholic beverages

· Ammunition

· Drug paraphernalia

· Fireworks and other explosives

- OS

[Guest ADAM]

Maybe this can help...this is only one. shipperhttp://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

[Guest ADAM]

No no no.

No live ammo through USPS.

None. At all. Ever.

- OS

bad wording I agree you can't send ammo using USPS. should have clarified.

[Oh Shoot]

Maybe this can help...this is only one. shipperhttp://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Dude.

UPS is not "the post office" as you've been saying.

UPS = United Parcel Service

USPS - United States Postal Service

You can ship ammo UPS or FedEx ground.

No ammo USPS at all.

- OS

[lowbud]

OS is 100% correct. No ammo or hasmat (primers, powder, etc) may be shipped through USPS. Doesn't matter if you are a dealer or not on this one...

The only thing you can ship through USPS is brass and lead. Everything else must be shipped UPS/FedEx.

[Guest ADAM]

Dude.

UPS is not "the post office" as you've been saying.

UPS = United Parcel Service

USPS - United States Postal Service

You can ship ammo UPS or FedEx ground.

No ammo USPS at all.

- OS

you catch on quick. like i said earlier i should have clarified and listed all the shippers so here UPS-UNITED PARCEL SERVICE, USPS -UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, FED-EX=FEDERAL EXPRESS. TA DA

[Oh Shoot]

you catch on quick. like i said earlier i should have clarified and listed all the shippers so here UPS-UNITED PARCEL SERVICE, USPS -UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, FED-EX=FEDERAL EXPRESS. TA DA

I don't know what the above is meant to convey, but twice you plainly advocated shipping ammo through US Postal Service, simple as that, and thus my simple repeated replies.

...but if the buyer buys ammo from you you are required to shipthe ammo seperate the easiest and cheapest way is use the post office, ...

I am not sure if this is what you meant, but you can't ship ammo through the US postal service

you can ship it just not in the same box as weapon.

- OS

[VERO1]

I prefer face to face, so the buyer sees what he is buying. I don't want the hassle of someone backing out on a deal because of a perceived difference in description vs actual condition of an item. That way if they back out there is no argument on who pays shipping which way,etc.........

[gregintenn]

I don't mean to sound like a smart @ss, but just because you know the laws, that doesn't mean all the post office employees, police officers, ATF agents, etc. do. I can see a lot of problems arising from shipping a firearm person to person. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it will always be pain free.

[Oh Shoot]

..Just because it's legal doesn't mean it will always be pain free.

It is unlikely EVER to be pain free if you notify ANY of the carriers.

Which even though BATF says you must in their FAQ, according to federal law, you do NOT, except to unlicensed recipients in interstate shipments.

So admittedly, for purposes under discussion here, most shipments WOULD be to unlicensed individuals but would also be intrastate shipments, and hence it is not necessary to inform.

Federal law does not require handguns to be sent overnight, either.

Again, though, if you don't follow UPS/FedEx policy and need to file a claim, you're probably toast on that, otherwise a no tell policy on your part will work fine, and is not against federal law.

- OS

Edited April 15, 2010 by OhShoot
clarified notification for shipping to UNLICENSED recipients

[Guest mosinon]

It is unlikely EVER to be pain free if you notify ANY of the carriers.

Which even though BATF says you must in their FAQ, according to federal law, you do NOT.

Federal law does not require handguns to be sent overnight, either.

Again, though, if you don't follow UPS/FedEx policy and need to file a claim, you're probably toast on that, otherwise a no tell policy on your part will work fine, and is not against federal law.

- OS

Yeah but aren't you pretty screwed on any claim anyway? You know better than me but everything I've read seems to indicate that if you have a claim against UPS or FEDEX the chances of getting decent compensation are close to zero

[Smith]

The good thing about shipping in state is that it is pretty much 1-2 days, even going ground. Can't beat that. I've shipped pistols 3 times FTF (2 ups, 1 FedEx) and haven't had a problem. They were all too people I felt I knew pretty well from the forum. The one that made me rethink was from glocktalk. I think he tried to screw me. Luckily I put it on hold when I didn't receive his tracking number in return (it was a trade). I can tell you that the counter folks do not know their own policies or laws. Box it up schedule a pickup and there will be no problem.

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah but aren't you pretty screwed on any claim anyway? You know better than me but everything I've read seems to indicate that if you have a claim against UPS or FEDEX the chances of getting decent compensation are close to zero

They'll jerk around an individual more than a company, but they'll eventually pay off, but you do have to persevere.

Most folks blow it because they (as receiver) try to make a claim, and only the sender can. You have to put pressure on the sender, like rescind credit card payment if the shipper doesn't jump on things, or send you replacement while they jack with UPS/FedEx.

This, of course, makes it difficult if you've already paid for a gun, say, with Money Order and the sender drags his heels. Or, as mentioned, if the sender used a non-approved method of sending it (like hand gun in ground shipment), likely nukes any payoff, since you didn't adhere to the shipper's stated policy.

- OS

[lowbud]

It is unlikely EVER to be pain free if you notify ANY of the carriers.

Which even though BATF says you must in their FAQ, according to federal law, you do NOT.

Federal law does not require handguns to be sent overnight, either.

Again, though, if you don't follow UPS/FedEx policy and need to file a claim, you're probably toast on that, otherwise a no tell policy on your part will work fine, and is not against federal law.

- OS

Exactly. Really the only requirement or so it reads is that you are suppose to notify the shipper of the firearm. I guess what burns me about UPS and FedEx is they typically don't even know their own policy. If they don't know the policy, why the hell should I follow it.

otherwise a no tell policy on your part will work fine, and is not against federal law.

Not so fast....

Here's the QA from the BATF website.

"Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

"

So in reality you would be in violation of federal law using the don't ask don't tell rule. However, UPS only requires verbal notification. I suppose one could say "I told you" if the gun was ever found, lost, or dammaged during shipment.

[lowbud]

The good thing about shipping in state is that it is pretty much 1-2 days, even going ground. Can't beat that. I've shipped pistols 3 times FTF (2 ups, 1 FedEx) and haven't had a problem. They were all too people I felt I knew pretty well from the forum. The one that made me rethink was from glocktalk. I think he tried to screw me. Luckily I put it on hold when I didn't receive his tracking number in return (it was a trade). I can tell you that the counter folks do not know their own policies or laws. Box it up schedule a pickup and there will be no problem.

I am told by my ups guy 85% of the service in the state of TN is ground. Even if you choose next day air, the package still goes ground. Same trucks, drivers, routes, as every other package leaving the same facility.

So from my location.. I can hit 90% of the state in one business day UPS ground.

Regardless of how things are shipped. I will not ship a gun to anyone I don't feel comfortable with. I also never ship out of state (personally) My FFL ships at a vary reasonable price via US postal service.

One thing that boils my blood is buying a gun out of state from another dealer and having them tell me that it must ship next day air. They want to charge you $30+ for shipping and in most cases.. it arrives at your FFL via USPS priority. I refuse to deal with those people...

[Oh Shoot]

Not so fast....

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

"

...

I already posted that BATF is wrong in their FAQ about notification.

Law says that notification only required if sending to UNLICENSED recipient AND it is an INTERSTATE shipment.

But I do apologize, since my sweeping statement was also wrong, but for purposes under this thread, most all shipments WOULD be to an unlicensed individual, but would NOT be INTERSTATE shipments.

So, in short, no notification needed as to contents of package.

"922...

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;"

I had actually forgotten WHY the BATF FAQ is wrong, since I've only sent guns to FFLs in the past.

Also, though, note that the law specifies WRITTEN notice.

Mea culpa for any wrong info...I'll modify my previous post too, just to be factual.

- OS

Edited April 15, 2010 by OhShoot

[jonlisha]

Well this is nice, im gonna give my basic game plan of how im gonna do this, feel free to correct me on anything i have wrong.

I wish to ship a shotgun to a Tennessee resident, my plan is to take the stock off and bolt out, then take it to the UPS in town, they will give me a box and weigh it in then the shotgun and all its parts will be on its way.

Am i doing it right? Will people freak out when i walk in with a gun? Am i better off just trying to find a box i can fit it in at home and then taking it up there?

[Mike.357]

nothing illegal about walking in with a shotgun but my preference woould be to have it boxed. sealed and good to go when I walk in the door.