Questions on LE responsibilites?

[Worriedman]

As I am ignorant of the basic principals of LE Responsibilities on several issues, and not being a lawyer or a member of any LE organization, I would like the help of those on the board who are, either past or present, and have specific knowledge related to a few questions:

1. What responsibility to the average Citizen does Tennessee LE have relative to preventing crime?

2. If a Citizen is the victim of crime, does that citizen have any recourse to recompense from the various LE agencies, or their controlling bodies, i.e. State, county or Local Government?

3. Is there case law which states the responsibilities of LE toward the safety of the individual Citizen?

4. I has been intoned in another thread about the Second Amendment “you can see the intent is to maintain a well regulated security forceâ€. Is that the assesement of Tennessee LE as a general rule?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Worriedman

[EMTRN]

The police have no duty to protect you, and they cannot be sued for failing to prevent crime.

Warren v. District of Columbia

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department

Google these cases.

[bubbiesdad]

The police have no duty to protect you, and they cannot be sued for failing to prevent crime.

Warren v. District of Columbia

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department

Google these cases.

That's right, in DC, the police have no duty to act upon a crime in progress,(Warren v. District of Columbia), nor can you protect yourself with a handgun.

[bubbiesdad]

That's right, in DC, the police have no duty to act upon a crime in progress,(Warren v. District of Columbia), nor can you protect yourself with a handgun.

Legal Snares for the Unwary Law-Abiding Citizen

Do You Have a Right to Police Protection?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=1

[wjh2657]

According to many decisions of the SCOTUS, only one person is legally responsible for the protection and welfare of you and your family: you.

This is the reason this sane , sensible, GOD fearing, law abiding freedom loving old man started carrying a gun!

[DaveTN]

1-3 are all the same question just worded differently as far as I can tell. So I’ll address #4.

If the question you are asking is do cops support you carrying a gun; the answer is …yes. I know a couple of hundred cops and most of them believe that you should be able to carry a gun. This in no way shape or form has anything to do with the 2nd amendment.

The problem is that cops don’t make the laws; they enforce them. Even the ones they don’t believe are right.

[Worriedman]

1-3 are all the same question just worded differently as far as I can tell. So I’ll address #4.

If the question you are asking is do cops support you carrying a gun; the answer is …yes. I know a couple of hundred cops and most of them believe that you should be able to carry a gun. This in no way shape or form has anything to do with the 2nd amendment.

The problem is that cops don’t make the laws; they enforce them. Even the ones they don’t believe are right.

The questions were postulated to two specific groups.

#'s 1-3 are specific questions, relative to the same issue, but they are, in fact, specific questions. #1 ask about the responsibility issue, #2 about recourse in the event of a crime, and #3 ask for specific case law. I thought they were plain. Was not looking for an opinion on the framing of the questions, rather answers to them.

#4 ask about how Tennessee LE views the Second Amendment, related to a supposition stated in another thread. My question was how Tennessee LE views that situation, so it has everything to do with the Second Amendment, it is the foundation of the question.

My question #4 again, is how Tennessee LE views the Second Amendment. Possibly I should have made it multiple choice, (a)does the Second Amendment deal in the creation and maintenance of a "security force" or ( does it relate to individual Rights to keep and bear arms?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

The police have no duty to protect you, and they cannot be sued for failing to prevent crime.

Warren v. District of Columbia

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department

Google these cases.

Thanks for the response.

I would however, like to know your answer to the #4 question. I realize it is somewhat of an opinion seeker, but, knowing your avocation, I would greatly desire to hear you speak to your own view point, and the Department's (where you are employed) take on the Second Amendment (if you are privy to their assessment, or if there is even an official stance).

Edited April 12, 2010 by Worriedman

[DaveTN]

The questions were postulated to two specific groups.

#'s 1-3 are specific questions, relative to the same issue, but they are, in fact, specific questions. #1 ask about the responsibility issue, #2 about recourse in the event of a crime, and #3 ask for specific case law. I thought they were plain. Was not looking for an opinion on the framing of the questions, rather answers to them.

#4 ask about how Tennessee LE views the Second Amendment, related to a supposition stated in another thread. My question was how Tennessee LE views that situation, so it has everything to do with the Second Amendment, it is the foundation of the question.

My question #4 again, is how Tennessee LE views the Second Amendment. Possibly I should have made it multiple choice, (a)does the Second Amendment deal in the creation and maintenance of a "security force" or ( does it relate to individual Rights to keep and bear arms?

I apologize, I thought you were wondering how cops felt about you being armed.

I would guess their feelings about the meaning and intent of the 2nd amendment would be just like the rest of the population…. Split.

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but when I think of a person being able to defend their very life against a killer; I just don’t see the need to have the 2nd amendment validated as a stamp of approval.

[gregintenn]

The police have no duty to protect you

Then why do they paint the slogan "To Protect And Serve" on the doors of their patrol cars?

[Worriedman]

Then why do they paint the slogan "To Protect And Serve" on the doors of their patrol cars?

I truly believe that the majority of line Officers see that as their mission. It is a small town cultural thing, and what the best of the Officers hold as their responsibility. When you put the uniform on, you accept the target that is painted on it. If one intends to pilfer sheep, you shoot the sheepdogs first.

I am seeking the facts however, and want to know what I am facing in Tennessee. To effectively deal with Legislators, (who hold all the keys) I need to know the facts.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Worriedman

[Guest Jamie]

Then why do they paint the slogan "To Protect And Serve" on the doors of their patrol cars?

Because they are there to protect and serve the community they work for. Not the individual, the community.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

I truly believe that the majority of line Officers see that as their mission. It is a small town cultural thing, and what the best of the Officers hold as their responsibility. When you put the uniform on, you accept the target that is painted on it. If one intends to pilfer sheep, you shoot the sheepdogs first.

I am seeking the facts however, and want to know what I am facing in Tennessee. To effectively deal with Legislators, (who hold all the keys) I need to know the facts.

You've basically got your cart out in front of your horse there.

I don't think most LE agencies have a set opinion on the 2nd at all. Maybe the individual officers have personal opinions on it, but in the end, those don't matter since the "official" opinion on it comes from the legislators/politicians.

( And make no mistake about it, the heads of those agencies are very much politicians. They simply don't usually get the luxury of forming or enforcing their own opinions on the subject. )

So, if you want to know what those official opinions are, start with the folk that made them; the legislators/lawmakers.

J.

[Worriedman]

Perhaps I am not asking my question correctly. I would think that LE would discuss their view on such an issue, and have a corporate style view. Maybe I am just over thinking, but, I am seeking to find out how LE views the issue. I can not believe that say the THP does not have a overall perception of the issue that is passed on to officers.

I know that OSHA Regs. affect all contractors equally, but some tend to pay attention to some issues, and not to others, and some have strong enough Safety Programs that their rules supersede even those of OSHA. I had supposed LE agencies would be similar in nature.

As for Legislators, that is easy enough to render an opinion on their actions and beliefs, watch their votes and the tale is told.

[Guest Jamie]

I can not believe that say the THP does not have a overall perception of the issue that is passed on to officers.

And I would say that they do only so far as what the law says... In other words, they aren't going to voice any opinion based on anything but that, since that is what they are charged with following and enforcing.

I really can't give you any more than that, since that was all I was ever given to work with, as a deputy.

Wish I could be of more help, but that's honestly all I can tell you, based on my own experience.

J.

[Worriedman]

Fair enough. I appreciate the response.

[Guest PapaB]

... I would think that LE would discuss their view on such an issue, and have a corporate style view. Maybe I am just over thinking, but, I am seeking to find out how LE views the issue. I can not believe that say the THP does not have a overall perception of the issue that is passed on to officers.

As Jamie said:

And make no mistake about it, the heads of those agencies are very much politicians.

Look at when the Gov. was vetoing the restaurant carry legislation. He gathered together a lot of the heads of LE Agencies throughout the State. The rank and file disagreed with the veto. LEO's don't always walk in lockstep with the heads of their departments. Even the "corporate style view" will vary from agency to agency on the 2nd amendments meaning.

[Pain103]

I will try to answer the best I can with the crazy late shift and lack of sleep.

1. What responsibility to the average Citizen does Tennessee LE have relative to preventing crime? I'm not responsible to the average citizen. I work for a city, the main welfare and protection as a whole is my goal. If I can protect one citizen daily good, if I can protect entire neighborhood great!

2. If someone is a victim of a crime more than likely they will not be entitled to any compensation from any LE department. But this is not for me to decide this is determined by a judge and jury. Typically you would have to show an officer to be extremely negligent and somehow purposely allowing someone to commit a crime that they know will endanger the public safety. Example I stop a drunk driver say screw it I'm tired allow him to drive off and half mile down the road he hits a family and kills someone. You bet that's probably gonna be a civil suit.

3. I don't know of any case law which would apply here. Most oaths of office never mention swearing to an individual citizen. I could be wrong on case law but never been shown to me.

4. I can't speak for LE as a whole or gather a general opinion about the 2nd. I commend citizens who enjoy their right to bear arms and do so legally. I don't always agree with firearms laws but that's above my pay grade.

These may not be the answers you were hoping to get but you pose general questions and some that are not the general scope of Law Enforcement.

[Worriedman]

I will try to answer the best I can with the crazy late shift and lack of sleep.

1. What responsibility to the average Citizen does Tennessee LE have relative to preventing crime? I'm not responsible to the average citizen. I work for a city, the main welfare and protection as a whole is my goal. If I can protect one citizen daily good, if I can protect entire neighborhood great!

2. If someone is a victim of a crime more than likely they will not be entitled to any compensation from any LE department. But this is not for me to decide this is determined by a judge and jury. Typically you would have to show an officer to be extremely negligent and somehow purposely allowing someone to commit a crime that they know will endanger the public safety. Example I stop a drunk driver say screw it I'm tired allow him to drive off and half mile down the road he hits a family and kills someone. You bet that's probably gonna be a civil suit.

3. I don't know of any case law which would apply here. Most oaths of office never mention swearing to an individual citizen. I could be wrong on case law but never been shown to me.

4. I can't speak for LE as a whole or gather a general opinion about the 2nd. I commend citizens who enjoy their right to bear arms and do so legally. I don't always agree with firearms laws but that's above my pay grade.

These may not be the answers you were hoping to get but you pose general questions and some that are not the general scope of Law Enforcement.

Exactly what I am looking for. Though you may consider the questions of a general nature, what I am seeking is the general mindset of LE to those issues.

Thank you.

[Worriedman]

Even the "corporate style view" will vary from agency to agency on the 2nd amendments meaning.

I am sure that is a true statement, hence my desire to gather views from as many different agencies as possible.

I would suppose that LE agencies are much like any other group of employees, they have structure. The Brass lays out what the rules are. Not being privy to those, it behooves me to ask questions of those who are.

The only way I have ever learned anything is to seek information from those who have specific knowledge. Been trying to get a sit down with the Sheriff of Madison County for a couple of years, no way is he going to put himself in a situation where he has to give an answer to any specific question.

On the other hand, the New Chief of Police in Jackson granted me an interview within a few weeks of taking his position. I was very impressed with his openness and sense of wanting to forge a relationship with the Gun Owning public. The Officers I know on that force like his style as well.

[Guest PapaB]

Worriedman,

I applaud your desire to gain knowlege. Each day we learn something is a day worth enjoying.

[Guest faust921]

Then why do they paint the slogan "To Protect And Serve" on the doors of their patrol cars?

Because there isn't enough room on the door to write

"To Protect And Serve, if you (Citizen) hold the Police (Police) and our employer (City) harmless for actions resulting from, directly or indirectly, notwithstanding any provisions reserved specifically on the behalf of Police by the City, it's heirs or beneficiaries, any attempt to provide assistance, aid, advice, direction, protection, erection, we must form a coalition (J. Jackson), ridicule, indifference or incompetence. Additionally, moreover, however, whatever, herunto, herunder, and herunderwear, the Police (hereafter known as Po-Po) shall not be encumbered by any obligation to potentially infringe, impinge upon, deny, violate or tinkle upon civil rights that may or may not be afforded to alleged perpetrators (hereinafter known as "Turds") in order to protect or serve."

[dwcz]

Then why do they paint the slogan "To Protect And Serve" on the doors of their patrol cars?

To make you feel better as they write you a ticket thereby bringing in revenue, which fulfills the political aims of those who sit behind desks and want to be re-appointed

I think they could protect and serve the public much better by waiting just down the road from bars every night and pulling over everyone who drives away from one to make sure they are sober. Talk about an influx of DUI convictions and less drunk driving deaths.

Oh, and position an officer at busy intersections to write tickets to those who litter by dropping their cigarette butts out of their windows. MASSIVE revenue generator there...

That's serving and protecting...