Kel tec p11 vs. Cz52?? wich would you choose?

[spookboy]

Just aquired a cz52 in GREAT SHAPE, have a chance to trade for a kel tec p11 straight across,always wanted one. i havnt shot either yet, what would you do personally, my main thing is that the p11 is concealable, and can take a 30 round s&w 59 mag!!! but the cz 52 has something about it, like it was ment to fight with and shoot...... Experience and pros and cons on both please. mine came with the new firing pin,extractor and extended slide release, and 268 rounds,and rosewood grips the kel tec would come brand new in box, but with nothing. this wouldnt be a trade, i have one gentleman lookin at the cz(even though i JUST got it) and im lookin at the kel tek cuz its avail. nd my cz is in MINT cond. should i keep the cz, and just save for a kel tek?Since i have no experience with either??

[Garufa]

There is no way to compare those two guns. They are in entirely different leagues, designed for entirely different purposes.

CZ-52's are fun to shoot, overwhelmingly powerful, and cheap ammo (corrosive) is still fairly obtainable. It's also big and gawky. You can't just shove it into your pocket like a Kel-Tec and have a reliable piece.

There is no way within the laws of physics that a P11 will accept an S&W 59 magazine, nor was one ever made that I'm aware of.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Garufa

[Kelemvor]

I'd keep the CZ 52, personally. The 7.62x25 round has excellent penetration for a pistol and is fairly cheap as well. Also, CZ has a much better track record than KelTec.

[spookboy]

is no way within the laws of physics that a P11 will accept an S&W 59 magazine, nor was one ever made that I'm aware of.

Certan s&w 9mm mags fit, they had one at the gunshow 2 weeks ago with an aftermarket 30 round S&w 9mm mag, kinda like they make their sub 200o rifles that take beretta,glock,s&w mags and such. ne ways, this would be my main house gun for the moment and i can only choose one. i understand they are 2 totally diff peices, but im just askin for opinions from my fellow shooters, thats all

Edited April 10, 2010 by spookboy

[SavageSig]

If this is your only pistol, then neither. CZ52 is a curio and the P11 is junk with a crappy trigger.

[Guest strelcevina]

CZ 82

[Westwindmike]

There is no way within the laws of physics that a P11 will accept an S&W 59 magazine, nor was one ever made that I'm aware of.

From the KelTec Owners Group website(KTOG):

One of the attractive features of the Kel-Tec P11/40 is its ability to use Smith & Wesson M59-series (15-round) and M69-series (12-round) magazines. Many KTOGers are partial to the M69 12-round magazines and use them as spares when they carry. Depending on your body size and type and your mode of carry, it's also possible to use the M69-series magazine (with extension - see below) as your primary magazine in your gun. Most people seem to find the M59-series magazine just too long for use as anything except as a spare or at the range.

[Patton]

As a P-11 owner I can tell you only certain SW 59 mags will work. If there factory S&W you should be good. I like Kel-tecs.

[spookboy]

well if i could find someone with a cz82 to trade for my cz52 id jump on that in a heartbeat!

[Guest Republican]

CZ-52 -Sure they are old, but they just have that "keeper" gun look and feel to them not to mention the nostalgia you get from shooting one. You can buy like 1000 rounds of ammon for less than $150. Parts are cheap. No real cons to this gun for what it is other than ergonomics (which isnt that bad). I can say that mine is very accurate, has never had a fail to fire or eject. Pentration is outstanding.

P11 is ok and has obvious advantages, but I would personally keep the CZ52.

Your call dude.

[spookboy]

wanted a makarov, but i got a good deal. so thats why i snagged it

Edited April 10, 2010 by spookboy
spelling

[spookboy]

If this is your only pistol, then neither. CZ52 is a curio and the P11 is junk with a crappy trigger.

So if what if its a curio? its a firearm that works,are you saying that a 9mm round out of an $1100 Hk with a 3.5 in bbl is more effective than a 9mm out of a $300 kel tec or a 150$ hi-point?

in a small split house(kinda rough neighborhood) i live upstairs, so walls not a prob.if rounds are flying in a small space, i dont want to go deaf(cz52) but i might have to use it as a club,wich i cant do with a kel tec. like i said if i could trade it tward something more suitable(cz82).who knows, i might like it. how is recoil wise out of this gun comparable to? whats my stopping power compared to? i know penetration is great,but wanted to know.

google pics of cz52 custom under google images and youll even see some with american mag releases!!! im thinkin bout keepin this one, playin with it and maybe a duracoat and heavy mods? i dont know, you cz fella's seem that youd bet your life on your cz, so i might have the CZ virius?!? i guess ill know when i give my range report!!

Edited April 10, 2010 by spookboy

[SavageSig]

You asked so I'm telling you. A modern 9mm is more effective than an ancient 7.62 design. 7.62 has penetration, but that's it. You shouldn't buy a gun based on it's ability to physically bash somebody, but a P11 will hurt if you smack somebody in the face with it. Both pistols aren't that hot compared to modern moderately priced firearms, especially if you're considering it for home defense. I like how defensive you got. Definitely makes me want to continue giving my 2 cents.

So if what if its a curio? its a firearm that works,are you saying that a 9mm round out of an $1100 Hk with a 3.5 in bbl is more effective than a 9mm out of a $300 kel tec or a 150$ hi-point?

in a small split house(kinda rough neighborhood) i live upstairs, so walls not a prob.if rounds are flying in a small space, i dont want to go deaf(cz52) but i might have to use it as a club,wich i cant do with a kel tec. like i said if i could trade it tward something more suitable(cz82).who knows, i might like it. how is recoil wise out of this gun comparable to? whats my stopping power compared to? i know penetration is great,but wanted to know.

google pics of cz52 custom under google images and youll even see some with american mag releases!!! im thinkin bout keepin this one, playin with it and maybe a duracoat and heavy mods? i dont know, you cz fella's seem that youd bet your life on your cz, so i might have the CZ virius?!? i guess ill know when i give my range report!!

Edited April 10, 2010 by SavageSig

[Garufa]

Apparently P-11's will take S&W 59 mags. Says so on the Kel-Tec website.

I was thinking that gun was a single-stack.

[spookboy]

You asked so I'm telling you. A modern 9mm is more effective than an ancient 7.62 design. 7.62 has penetration, but that's it. You shouldn't buy a gun based on it's ability to physically bash somebody, but a P11 will hurt if you smack somebody in the face with it. Both pistols aren't that hot compared to modern moderately priced firearms, especially if you're considering it for home defense. I like how defensive you got. Definitely makes me want to continue giving my 2 cents.

to be quite honest a an all steel ruger mk 2 or mk3 with laser grips would honestly work, but $$ is tight.

I was just Asking(not being defensive,just trying to see your POV) because you kinda bashed my choices in whats avail to me (in my price).I could get a cz52 9mm barel if thats what Yall are suggesting until something more suitable comes up,WICH i plan on doing as soon as it permits.and sorry its what was in my price range at the time. I took your post as "since my gun is 50 years old that it wouldn't work for hd".

And i wasn't choosing just a gun just to "hit someone with it"If i was, id go with a crowbar or a ball bat! i just wanted a Decent, reliable auto at the time(the cz seems a bit above that actually),with some stopping power. but NOW i live in a small appt like 20'x30' and cqc is quite possible. wasn't knockin you.my post was for input from all members, not to bash you sir., just tryin to catch perspectives.

Whats the best round in Ya'lls op? or fav round?will the commercial rounds be fine?? or HP rounds? N e experience with the ones that are .223(i believe)in sabots inside?

like these...

And WHERE THE Heck do i find all that aftermarket cool stuff that i used to see on the guns at makarov.com. ?????? ext ported bbls and such? or if someone could tell me a good source for ANY aftermarket accessories, please let me Know. replacement parts are easy to come by, i mean the aftermarket stuff.

Thanks and safe shooting

Edited April 10, 2010 by spookboy
added info

[spookboy]

by GARUFA

Apparently P-11's will take S&W 59 mags. Says so on the Kel-Tec website.

I was thinking that gun was a single-stack.

I believe your thinking of the pf-9 sir

[PackinMama]

Well, I don't know anything about the CZ......but, I can tell you how I like my P11. I bought one from a member here a little over a month ago and I absolutely LOVE it!!! This is coming from one that has always been skeptical of KelTecs and a 20 year Glock fan.

I bought this gun thinking it would be a good "beater" for summer carry while working/playing around my farm. You know, one that I wouldn't care if it got scratched or if it rusted....but that would still be dependable if I needed it. Ever since I got it, I have been carrying it exclusively! Up until a couple days ago at least. My slide started getting a little rust on it from perspiration and I decided that I'd send the slide to be refinished. So I'm waiting to get it back and I'm currently suffering with carrying my Glock 27.....that now feels like a thick brick in my pants after getting used to carrying the P11.

The P11 is lighter, thinner, and smaller than the Glock 26/27 and it has just as much firepower with standard mags. Actually, it has one more round over my G27 with a standard mag. It has a long trigger pull like a DA revolver, but I actually like that for carrying. Much less chance of an accidental discharge and I shoot a long trigger pull just fine. I can point shoot my P11 and make a large stick dance across the ground at 10 yards. I can aim and get back on target FAST and the gun is surprisingly accurate. I just got two S&W 5900 series 15 round mags with the KelTec mag sleeves that work great in it. The P11 also has double strike capability.......so if you have a light strike for some reason, or a bad primer, you can pull the trigger again for another chance to get the bullet to fire.

Here's another thing to consider with KelTec. Their warranty is among the best in the business. The guy that's refinishing my slide told me that he would have to snap off the front sight to get it off. I called KelTec to get another front sight and they're sending me one for free. Heck, a whole new set, front and rear, of stock replacement sights are listed on the KelTec website for $6.95. If you have any problems at all with their guns, you can send them back to KelTec and most of the time you'll get it back and it will be better than new. Before I bought mine, the original owner had some ftf's and fte's when it was new and sent it back. When he got it back, it had a brand new slide and barrel, and the feed ramp had been polished.

I've put 100 rds. or maybe a little more through it so far without one problem. Over half of those rounds were shot rapid fire because I like to practice like I would shoot in a self defense scenario.

With a 9mm, you'll have a ton more choices when it comes to ammo too. You can get a box of 50 target loads at Wally World for $10. You can find some excellent self defense loads for $25-$30 for a box of 50.

If it were me, I'd get the P11. You won't have to worry about corrosive ammo and you'll be able to carry it soooooooo much easier!!!

[Magiccarpetrides]

Keep the CZ-52...they keep going up in value...the P11 wont for a long long long time(if ever).

[spookboy]

Did yall read my o.p. though?, the cz,with all the extras and 200 rounds for the kel tec and nothin extra, maybe ill shoot 100 through it then get the kel tec.i thought i might stick with this one, because i have 2x the distance in accuracy40-50 yrds with cz, what 20-25 if lucky with kel tec(correct me if im wrong) ?, but im just torn

Edited April 10, 2010 by spookboy

[Magiccarpetrides]

look at it this way....its a lot harder to replace a really clean CZ-52 then it is to get a Kel Tec P11 later when money allows.

[shirtshirt]

Did yall read my o.p. though?, the cz,with all the extras and 200 rounds for the kel tec and nothin extra, maybe ill shoot 100 through it then get the kel tec.i thought i might stick with this one, because i have 2x the distance in accuracy40-50 yrds with cz, what 20-25 if lucky with kel tec(correct me if im wrong) ?, but im just torn

Yeah, everyone read it. You've gotten a lot of great feed back. Time to sack up and make a decision.

[seez52]

I've got both. Really like both. But for me they serve two separate purposes. P11 is my main carry gun, I've had it for at least 10-12 years. The only issue I've ever had was trying to shoot some soft lead slugs at a velocity higher than I should have. It shot them great, but they stripped right through the rifling and hit the target at all sorts of funny angles. Otherwise it's a great gun, decent factory sights and I grew up on DA in a wheel gun so I don't mind the trigger.

My CZs are fun to shoot, cheap, accurate but ain't no way they are a carry gun. Too heavy and if you're right handed, you'll find your thumb knuckle has a tendency to push the safety up under recoil just enough to keep it from firing. Not good. The org. sights are ok, but not really what you need for a carry gun. You'd need to carry it cocked and locked, but with the hammer drop safety it doesn't sound like a good idea.

If you're wanting something to shoot and have fun and maybe keep in the nightstand, the CZ would work. If you planning on CCW, go for the P11 it can do all of it. I've got several Kel-tecs and like all of them.