First LEO encounter while carrying

[SpartaTN]

Has anybody thrown the flag up yet?

[Erik88]

Has anybody thrown the flag up yet?

you beat me to it. this thread goes on and on and on.

[Guest Jamie]

My question is, what if you lied and told him you didn't have a gun?

Then you get charged with giving false information to a police officer, if for some reason the lie is discovered.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

Has anybody thrown the flag up yet?

Oh, it's not exactly hijacked, since it's still on the subject the OP presented, but it sure has been beat to death.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

you beat me to it. this thread goes on and on and on.

Tell whoever it is that has the gun stuck in your ear that I said leave you alone and stop forcing you to read this thread.

J.

[Guest Caveman]

Do keep in mind that the things we're talking about here are things LEOs have a legal right to do; disarm you if they feel the need, and to put a person who has a gun that they don't know is legal on the ground, especially if that person "bows up" or becomes argumentative or combative.

I don't think anybody here has suggested or expected that anyone would or should be treated that way if they inform the officer of the fact they have a permit, and are cooperative with what the officer tells them needs to happen.

I certainly don't think anyone has said the "cops can do any damn thing they please".

( I know I certainly couldn't when I was one. Maybe I was just with the wrong department? )

However, if that were true, and most LEOs acted that way - and the judges protected them - why would a person want to go stupid on the side of the road and make the situation worse? It's not like you have any hope of getting away with it, is there?

J.

P.S. Caveman - Have you had a lot of bad experiences with the police or something?

To answer you questions: #1 - The scenario in question did not involve anyone being argumentative or blowing up, it was a case of getting slammed for not telling the officer about the firearm (assuming he didn't ask)

#2 - I will agree that resisting the assault even though no law was broken will end badly, I never disagreed with that. So why do it in the first place? Because even though I may want to comply with eating gravel for no reason so I won't be charged with everything under the sun, I don't know if I could actually just allow it to happen as it is happening, I'm just like that I guess.

#3 - Yes, I have had many bad experiences. I have seen the other side of the coin when it comes to court and DA's and bad cops. I'm sure you are a good cop, and there are good cops everywhere, including my uncle and cousin. My uncle is Chief of Police up north and my cousin is a patrol officer, they are good people. When I get pulled over (hasn't happened in many years) I am polite and respectful. I put my hands at 10 and 2, turn my interior light on if it's dark and have my info ready so I'm not fiddling around when he/she walks up. I address the LEO as officer and answer whatever questions I am asked. If they treat me with respect I will treat them with respect. But for you to say that it's ok for me to eat gravel because I don't volunteer information I'm not legally required to even though I'm not being argumentative or blowing up is ridiculous. That is my point on this thread.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Caveman

[Guest Jamie]

But for you to say that it's ok for me to eat gravel because I don't volunteer information I'm not legally required to even though I'm not being argumentative or blowing up is ridiculous. That is my point on this thread.

Maybe you didn't catch what I posted earlier, but I never said it was okay, only that it's very much a possibility, and the reality of the situation we've been discussing. And also that it's an understandable reaction if a person has ever been on the other side of it.

In a perfect world it wouldn't happen. In a world where all cops were psychic and could tell the good from the bad by reading their minds, it probably wouldn't happen.

Unfortunately though, we don't live in any such world, and the police are stuck with going on experience and training. And that generally teaches one that people who don't disclose or try to hide weapons are usually up to no good, at minimum, or are a danger at worst.

As for things being legal or not, Lenny/Voldemort is a good example of how some things that are quite legal are also a really bad idea.

Quite a number of us agree that while the things he's done may be legal, they're still quite stupid, and cause problems that are too easy to avoid.

And yes, he got put on the ground and handcuffed at least once for them.

You ever see the letter from the PD's attorney concerning that? The essence of it was that there was no grounds for a lawsuit due to excessive force, that what was done was within departmental procedure and guidelines.

So yeah, in the end, I guess it is okay for you or anybody else to "eat gravel" because of information that you or they choose, legally, not to give. It's your/their decision, after all, and if you know it's coming, or could come, and decide not to avoid it... who am I to say you shouldn't?

Sorry, but having been on both sides of the coin so to speak, I think I'll continue to do exactly as the OP did, and as many others have done, and go ahead and volunteer that information even though I don't have to, and avoid getting myself or some LEO that doesn't know me any extra exercise or headaches.

Sorry, but in my view, life's just too short ( or long, depending on your point of view ) to make it any more difficult than it has to be.

J.

P.S. I've chosen not to discuss your run-ins with the police, since I don't want anything I say to be taken as an insult or personal attack when it certainly wouldn't be intended that way.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Jamie

[Guest slothful1]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the LEO to take possession of your gun, as long as he also gives you his own sidearm in exchange.

[Guest Caveman]

Maybe you didn't catch what I posted earlier, but I never said it was okay, only that it's very much a possibility, and the reality of the situation we've been discussing. And also that it's an understandable reaction if a person has ever been on the other side of it.

In a perfect world it wouldn't happen. In a world where all cops were psychic and could tell the good from the bad by reading their minds, it probably wouldn't happen.

Unfortunately though, we don't live in any such world, and the police are stuck with going on experience and training. And that generally teaches one that people who don't disclose or try to hide weapons are usually up to no good, at minimum, or are a danger at worst.

As for things being legal or not, Lenny/Voldemort is a good example of how some things that are quite legal are also a really bad idea.

Quite a number of us agree that while the things he's done may be legal, they're still quite stupid, and cause problems that are too easy to avoid.

And yes, he got put on the ground and handcuffed at least once for them.

You ever see the letter from the PD's attorney concerning that? The essence of it was that there was no grounds for a lawsuit due to excessive force, that what was done was within departmental procedure and guidelines.

So yeah, in the end, I guess it is okay for you or anybody else to "eat gravel" because of information that you or they choose, legally, not to give. It's your/their decision, after all, and if you know it's coming, or could come, and decide not to avoid it... who am I to say you shouldn't?

Sorry, but having been on both sides of the coin so to speak, I think I'll continue to do exactly as the OP did, and as many others have done, and go ahead and volunteer that information even though I don't have to, and avoid getting myself or some LEO that doesn't know me any extra exercise or headaches.

Sorry, but in my view, life's just too short ( or long, depending on your point of view ) to make it any more difficult than it has to be.

J.

Fair enough. I prefer your comments and reasoning more than others.

[Guest Caveman]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the LEO to take possession of your gun, as long as he also gives you his own sidearm in exchange.

That's great!

[Guest sandmanfvr]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the LEO to take possession of your gun, as long as he also gives you his own sidearm in exchange.

Damn straight.

[Guest nashvegas]

P.S. Caveman - Have you had a lot of bad experiences with the police or something?

Yes, I have had many bad experiences.

Why am I not surprised?

[Guest Caveman]

Why am I not surprised?

I don't know, why aren't you surprised?

[Guest sandmanfvr]

Why am I not surprised?

Don't be a smarta**. I have had some good and bad experiences myself. You can live in an area with piss poor cops that have attitudes and you can have bad experiences and not deserve it. Get off your high horse there, before you fall and bust your a**.

Edited April 14, 2010 by sandmanfvr

[Guest Jamie]

Don't be a smarta**. I have had some good and bad experiences myself. You can live in an area with piss poor cops that have attitudes and you can have bad experiences and not deserve it. Get off your high horse there, before you fall and bust your a**.

And another indisputable fact is that people who repeatedly have bad experiences with the police are generally doing something to bring it on themselves... or at least not taking the required steps to avoid such... um... unfortunate... encounters.

Yes, living in a bad area with bad cops makes it tough, but it doesn't make it impossible to avoid confrontations with LEOs.

Which brings us back to the subject at hand; dealing with a traffic stop when you're an armed permit holder, and doing what you need to do to make the experience as bearable as possible.

J.

[Guest sandmanfvr]

And another indisputable fact is that people who repeatedly have bad experiences with the police are generally doing something to bring it on themselves... or at least not taking the required steps to avoid such... um... unfortunate... encounters.

Yes, living in a bad area with bad cops makes it tough, but it doesn't make it impossible to avoid confrontations with LEOs.

Which brings us back to the subject at hand; dealing with a traffic stop when you're an armed permit holder, and doing what you need to do to make the experience as bearable as possible.

J.

Even though you like to make things cut and dry, a person can have one experience like a traffic stop go bad and it be a cop wanting to just be an a**. I have been pulled over for "not stopping at at stop sign" and the cop was a pissed off redneck that was just full off himself. I was calm and told him I stopped and when he couldn't intimidate me he let me go, as he was full of it. I did nothing wrong, and he was out to get somebody due to having a bad day. Nothing is cut a dry and it is not always the person getting pulled over fault.

[Guest Jamie]

Even though you like to make things cut and dry, a person can have one experience like a traffic stop go bad and it be a cop wanting to just be an a**. I have been pulled over for "not stopping at at stop sign" and the cop was a pissed off redneck that was just full off himself. I was calm and told him I stopped and when he couldn't intimidate me he let me go, as he was full of it. I did nothing wrong, and he was out to get somebody due to having a bad day. Nothing is cut a dry and it is not always the person getting pulled over fault.

You're missing the point.

Yes, anybody can have a bad encounter or two with the police. Hell, I have myself, many years ago. And even once while I was a cop myself.

However, if you have those bad encounters on a regular or semi-regular basis, it's safe to say you're doing something very wrong.

J.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Jamie

[Guest sandmanfvr]

You're missing the point.

Yes, anybody can have a bad encounter or two with the police. Hell, I have myself, many years ago.

However, if you have those bad encounters on a regular or semi-regular basis, it's safe to say you're doing something very wrong.

J.

I get your point, you don't get mine. If you live in an area and the SAME BAD COPS keep screwing with people, you keep having the bad experiences over and over. I mean I can see your point that many do bring it on themselves over and over, but you can be in an area with bad cops and they keep causing s***. Even if you can't believe that, but it happens in small towns more than bigger towns/cities.

[Guest Jamie]

... it happens in small towns more than bigger towns/cities.

I've lived in a small town for a very long time now... since I was about 12, as a matter of fact.

And one of several reasons I'm no longer a deputy is that the wrong guy won an election, and I wasn't willing to work for a "good ol' boy", if you follow my meaning.

J.

[Guest sandmanfvr]

I know that first hand to, as the county I lived in had a bad sheriff and then a new one was finally voted in. In that time of the bad sheriff, the bad cops would do what they wanted on things. I never had to deal with them, but many said they got pulled over, many times for bullspit reasons. I am not saying caveman is that, I am not judging him in any way etc, but it can and does happen.

[Guest Jamie]

I never had to deal with them, but many said they got pulled over, many times for bullspit reasons.

Now why is that, do ya think?

( A possibility: You know a few things about avoiding trouble, and exercise that knowledge, that those others don't/didn't? )

J.

[Guest sandmanfvr]

Now why is that, do ya think?

( A possibility: You know a few things about avoiding trouble, and exercise that knowledge, that those others don't/didn't? )

J.

Or I wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time with said bad cops. Can happen to anyone, I didn't go to many places in the county I didn't have to go to.

[Guest Jamie]

Or I wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time with said bad cops. Can happen to anyone, I didn't go to many places in the county I didn't have to go to.

An advantage to living in a small town is that it doesn't take long to figure out who's on duty when, and where they're likely to be found.

And with that info in hand, a person can make a habit of NOT being in the wrong place at the wrong time on a regular basis.

When I first started driving, we all knew who we'd find where, and how they were likely going to view and treat us.

Needless to say, most of us shied away from times and places where an unfriendly deputy was apt to be found.

The less-bright among us... the hell-raisers and ones who always seemed to be in trouble... didn't.

Again, a person's habits will tell off on 'em, in the end. I wasn't an angel by any stretch of the imagination, but I at least had sense enough to figure out all the "requireds" of not getting into a boatload of trouble, and acted accordingly.

And that's really all we've been talking about here; figuring out what one needs to do, and doing it, rather than forcing a situation that is foreseeable, and only has one likely outcome.

Is it always going to work? Will things always go smoothly with the police? Nah, probably not.

It will go smoothly more often than it doesn't, though, if people will use just a little bit of sense and restraint.

Anyway... I'm getting rather bored with this. The people that are likely to listen probably don't even need to be told, and the ones that aren't gonna listen are just going to have to learn on their own... if they ever learn at all.

So I'll catch you folks on another thread, and hopefully another subject.

J.

[E4 No More]

This thread is sounding like Vagina Monologues.

[Mike.357]

Originally Posted by slothful1

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the LEO to take possession of your gun, as long as he also gives you his own sidearm in exchange.

if I ever get pulled over or whatever and the cop asks for my gun I am going to use this line. ( assuming I am not fearful he is going to shoot me for asking)

Edited April 14, 2010 by Mike.357