First LEO encounter while carrying

[inspecting1]

Personly I travel a lot!!!!!!! This year I have been in St.Croix, South Louisiana, Corpus Christi, TX, Toledo, OH. All but St. Croix of course was with a 38 traveltrailer intow and armed. I can usually be pulld off the side of the road license, registration , and insurance in hand and window rolled down interior lights on before the LEO can get out of his car. With me being out of state and all it is just easier to try and get along and they usually respond better to someone who is nice as opposed to being an ass. Since I'm usually in the wrong mostly speeding at least being nice there is a chance of getting out of there with out a ticket the other way you will at least get the speeding ticket and depending he might find other stuff wrong. If you look at what you can be wrote for most people never realize getting a speeding ticket is getting off easy. Besides when you drive 19 hrs just so you go in and work a 12hr shift somewhere for 6 weeks. It sucks trying to get all the dirt off you and the interior of the truck and explaining to your buddies why your head is all skint up. It's easier to just get along most of the time.

[EMTRN]

I have never disarmed a permit holder. I appreciate when I am told before dispatch informs me. I agree that most permit holders are upstanding citizens, but some are not.

[E4 No More]

Like I said, I'm just glad he isn't a cop anymore. One less cop with his mentality to deal with.

Aww, I'm just so wounded by your opinion. What will I ever do?

[Guest 10mm4me]

Since it is not a law that I inform the officer, if I do nothing that warrants disarming me, It will not be done and I will end my responses to this thread here.

[Mike.357]

if I do nothing that warrants disarming me, It will not be done

that will end well for you I am sure

[Erik88]

that will end well for you I am sure

+1:taser:

[Guest crotalus01]

The only time I have been pulled over in the last 5 years I had my Glock in a retention holster sitting on the passenger seat. I didnt want to grab it to throw in the glovebox or under the seat as that might look suspicious, so I got my license and permit out to hand to the cop - well he arrived at my door as I was fumbling with my wallet and saw the gun. Then I dropped my permit as i was pulling it out. The cop laughed as I looked up at him, said "go ahead and get your permit off the floor, and put your gun in the glovebox while I run your info".

5 minutes later I was on my way, no ticket no warning. Super cool cop.

I would have understood getting drawn on in that situation, even though I was not making any movements towards the gun. If I had been concealed and informed him and he drew on me or put me prone after receiving my permit I would be talking to a lawyer.

And that earlier quote about the cop being the stranger and not trusting them any more than a drunk on a parkbench may have been harsh, but it was also true, especially in Memphis where the cop is just as likely to be a criminal as not.

Edited April 7, 2010 by crotalus01

[Guest Chandler]

I have been pulled over in multiple counties in this state and have never had a problem , I have always told them that I was carrying. They just always ask where it is and not to make any sudden moves. This was in Franklin and Brentwood as well , where the cops are pretty strict. I always want to put the officer at ease, cause I dont want the cop to throw down no matter what kind of day he is having.

[Guest Jamie]

Since it is not a law that I inform the officer, if I do nothing that warrants disarming me, It will not be done and I will end my responses to this thread here.

You know, just because the law doesn't require you to inform that you're armed doesn't mean it's not a very good idea, and just plain common sense.

And yes, the officer can and will disarm you if he/she feels it's warranted. How much skin you lose in that process is marginally up to you.

Remember, until the LEO has a chance to run your DL number, they have no idea you have a permit, or what you legal standing is. And if they become aware of a weapon before that's been determined, they're going to act in a worst case/best interest manner.

And even if you don't get a lesson in dry-land body surfing, I'd bet a large sum of money that they will disarm you for the duration of the encounter, if you did not inform them of the permit and gun before they discover it on their own.

J.

[Guest Chandler]

dry land body surfing LOL

[Guest Jamie]

Like I said, I'm just glad he isn't a cop anymore. One less cop with his mentality to deal with.

I probably shouldn't but I've gotta address this: Try doing the job for a while and see what sort of "mentality" you develop.

I think most here who are complaining the loudest would probably become far less trusting and far more reflexive/reactionary in their dealings with the people they encounter than they could ever imagine. Especially after they've had a close call or two.

Oh, and concerning HCP holders being somehow more trustworthy... yeah, by and large I agree. However, it was a permit holder that shot and killed 3 of his family members just a week or so ago.

Triple Murder Suspect Undergoes Mental Evaluation - Nashville News Story - WSMV Nashville

That may not be a common occurrence, but it does prove that HCP holders are still only human, and certainly no better than anyone else, when it comes right down to it.

J.

[kb4ns]

As a LEO assigned to a traffic division, I make quite a few stops. If I had to guess a number, I probably stop about 8 to 10 HCP holders a month. So far, in 6+ years of doing this job, I've disarmed one permit holder in the course of a traffic stop - and that was because he kept fidgeting around and making me nervous. Luckily, he kept his act together, we both maintained a professional attitude, and everything went without a hitch. If an LEO decides he or she wants to disarm you during an encounter, it'd be wise not to resist. Regardless of your testicular fortitude, it will not end well for you. Not to mention the possibility of having the state take the view that you pose a material likelihood of risk of harm to the public since you can't even follow a simple lawful* command. Not saying that the Dept of Safety would see it that way, but who knows, right??

As far as informing goes, I always appreciate it. And 99.99% of the time, I ask where the weapon is, ask you not to reach toward that area, and that's the end of the issue. I've had a few instances where I've seen a weapon and had no idea whether there was an HCP involved. And yes, it results in my gun out and in an "offensive pose". I don't know you from Adam. If you have a valid HCP, we're good. If you don't, we have an issue. I've never put anybody's face in the gravel over it (so far), but I've been responsible for some folks needing to change their undies. I'm doing whatever I have to do to make sure I go home and hug my wife and 3 year old at the end of my shift. It's nothing personal. You don't have to inform me of carrying, but if I see it and haven't been informed, I'm gonna find out if you have a permit, and at this point, it won't be nearly as cordial for a minute or two. You can think the criminals for putting you through that. If there weren't hundreds of LEO's who have been shot in the past during traffic stops, maybe we wouldn't react that way to a "surprise" weapon.

*TCA 39-17-1351(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder

[kb4ns]

Well if that is the case I hope he has lots of backup.

I really hate to see that "let's get the rulers out and unzip our britches" mentality. As well, I hate seeing the mentality of some LEO's that they have to prove something or that it's ok to abuse their position. If an LEO is using excessive force to effect an arrest, disarm you, or whatever, fighting back would probably be the stupidest thing you could do. Yes, he'll probably have "lots of backup" and you'll just end up going to jail after you get medically cleared by the hospital staff. If you want to show you're the bigger person and actually see something done about a cop who has overstepped his bounds, a challenge isn't the route to go. Even if you do pull out a couple extra inches on the scene, how do you possibly think you'll get any positive results if the officer has black eyes and a broken nose? You think his chief will listen to your complaint? You think the prosecutor will care what you have to say? What about a jury in a civil suit?

Handling a situation like an adult (even if the other person doesn't) is so simple a caveman could do it. Sorry, couldn't resist...

[Guest Caveman]

I really hate to see that "let's get the rulers out and unzip our britches" mentality. As well, I hate seeing the mentality of some LEO's that they have to prove something or that it's ok to abuse their position. If an LEO is using excessive force to effect an arrest, disarm you, or whatever, fighting back would probably be the stupidest thing you could do. Yes, he'll probably have "lots of backup" and you'll just end up going to jail after you get medically cleared by the hospital staff. If you want to show you're the bigger person and actually see something done about a cop who has overstepped his bounds, a challenge isn't the route to go. Even if you do pull out a couple extra inches on the scene, how do you possibly think you'll get any positive results if the officer has black eyes and a broken nose? You think his chief will listen to your complaint? You think the prosecutor will care what you have to say? What about a jury in a civil suit?

Handling a situation like an adult (even if the other person doesn't) is so simple a caveman could do it. Sorry, couldn't resist...

I understand what you are saying here, but there is no justice against LE. If said scenario actually happened and I tried to file a report or get a lawyer or anything else it would go nowhere and I know this first hand. You guys all protect each other and the DA's protect you as well. I mean no disrespect to the good LEO's here, but the bad ones are out there. I can see that me "resisting" would look like macho bullsh@t to you, but I know d@mn well I would get no justice out of the situation by being "the bigger man." I will not let a MAN slam me to the ground and dig my face into the concrete for doing nothing wrong (which is the scenario we are talking about) So I will sit in my jail cell tazed and confused knowing that I stood up against tyranny. You guys have hard jobs, but you are still human, and I am human. If you attack me for no reason I will defend myself and I don't give a f@ck if you like it or not. And while you guys are looking at me like some punk that will resist, let me remind you it was one of your own, or formerly your own, that started this whole thing with his comment and showed the exact mentality that would cause me to fight back. Let me refresh your memory: Let me put it this way since you've already showed your hand where police officers are concerned: if you do not inform them that you are legally armed you most certainly will not like the way they disarm you if they discover that you have it. Gravel, grass, and dirt all taste like . This man is saying that I will be assaulted for NOT BREAKING THE LAW and you guys are defending this statement, surprise surprise. And I'm the one trying to prove my dick is bigger??? Whatever.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Caveman

[Guest ADAM]

I understand what you are saying here, but there is no justice against LE. If said scenario actually happened and I tried to file a report or get a lawyer or anything else it would go nowhere and I know this first hand. You guys all protect each other and the DA's protect you as well. I mean no disrespect to the good LEO's here, but the bad ones are out there. I can see that me "resisting" would look like macho bullsh@t to you, but I know d@mn well I would get no justice out of the situation by being "the bigger man." I will not let a MAN slam me to the ground and dig my face into the concrete for doing nothing wrong (which is the scenario we are talking about) So I will sit in my jail cell tazed and confused knowing that I stood up against tyranny. You guys have hard jobs, but you are still human, and I am human. If you attack me for no reason I will defend myself and I don't give a f@ck if you like it or not. And while you guys are looking at me like some punk that will resist, let me remind you it was one of your own, or formerly your own, that started this whole thing with his comment and showed the exact mentality that would cause me to fight back. Let me refresh your memory: Let me put it this way since you've already showed your hand where police officers are concerned: if you do not inform them that you are legally armed you most certainly will not like the way they disarm you if they discover that you have it. Gravel, grass, and dirt all taste like . This man is saying that I will be assaulted for NOT BREAKING THE LAW and you guys are defending this statement, surprise surprise. And I'm the one trying to prove my dick is bigger??? Whatever.

Im glad that you were not with me the time i was pulled over by the THP. The two times that I have been stopped while carrying I informed both officers that I was carrying, one didnt do anything other than thanking me for telling him, the other, which was a female, did disarm me unloaded my gun and even cuffed me until everything came back clear. She did infact explain the reason why " for her safety as well as mine". I had no problem for her doing so for the fact that Im 6' 250lbs and she was 5'2 105lbs soaking wet, and on a dark back road. Just because you have a HCP doesnt mean you still cannot be a threat. Why do you have so much anomosity towards police officers? Just wondering

[mikegideon]

Im glad that you were not with me the time i was pulled over by the THP. The two times that I have been stopped while carrying I informed both officers that I was carrying, one didnt do anything other than thanking me for telling him, the other, which was a female, did disarm me unloaded my gun and even cuffed me until everything came back clear. She did infact explain the reason why " for her safety as well as mine". I had no problem for her doing so for the fact that Im 6' 250lbs and she was 5'2 105lbs soaking wet, and on a dark back road. Just because you have a HCP doesnt mean you still cannot be a threat. Why do you have so much anomosity towards police officers? Just wondering

He said why he has so much anomosity, and I understand that. Personally, I'm going to do everything I can to avoid a confrontation. Weeding out bad cops ain't my job. As one poster said, you're not going to settle it on the side of the road anyway.

Most of the cops I've known over the years have their heads screwed on straight. Because of that, I'll do all of them the courtesy of showing my permit first thing. If I encounter one that's "running hot", it normally doesn't matter.

[Guest Caveman]

Im glad that you were not with me the time i was pulled over by the THP. The two times that I have been stopped while carrying I informed both officers that I was carrying, one didnt do anything other than thanking me for telling him, the other, which was a female, did disarm me unloaded my gun and even cuffed me until everything came back clear. She did infact explain the reason why " for her safety as well as mine". I had no problem for her doing so for the fact that Im 6' 250lbs and she was 5'2 105lbs soaking wet, and on a dark back road. Just because you have a HCP doesnt mean you still cannot be a threat. Why do you have so much anomosity towards police officers? Just wondering

Your story has nothing to do with what I said. Did the cop slam you onto the ground? Did the cop grind your face into the pavement? No they didn't, so you had no issue with them. Your point is that if they WOULD have slammed you it would have been ok? I can't believe I am sitting here defending the fact that I would not allow someone, anyone, to physically assault me when I have done nothing wrong or illegal. Did they assault you after they pulled you over? No, then what is your point? You are saying that I can be a threat? This is true, anyone can. Does that mean that cops can go around assaulting people who have done nothing just because they "might" be a threat? Maybe you should go back and read the thread again, we are talking about a specific scenario here. I have animosity against anyone who tries to assault me with no provocation, badge or no badge. It's not a cop thing, its a human thing. I have a human right to defend myself against an unwarranted attack, WHICH IS THE SCENARIO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

[inspecting1]

I can understand the anomosity. Some people have had bad experiences or seen others have those experiences with LEO's. I try to be nice to a fault because it's like he pointed out there is no way to win. Like my Daddy used to say never play another mans game and in this situation this would definatley be the LEO's game at least onthe side of the road. Where I grew up at we had some very corrupt LEO's from the chief down to the guys on patrol. How do I know? The chief is in jail now and I new the officers from highschool. Always kept my distance then due to the trouble that followed them. Hey that was Louisiana though we don't have those problems up here in Tenneessee. Right?

[E4 No More]

I've known LEO's who were itching for justification to crack a head, so my policy is to inform them whenever I have contact with them. A few months ago when I was a victim of a hit-n-run in Lavergne, I showed the officer my HCP along with my license, and all she said was, "As long as you don't try to draw it and shoot me we're cool." Her demeaner clearly showed that she appreciated the courtesy of being informed.

[inspecting1]

Your story has nothing to do with what I said. Did the cop slam you onto the ground? Did the cop grind your face into the pavement? No they didn't, so you had no issue with them. Your point is that if they WOULD have slammed you it would have been ok? I can't believe I am sitting here defending the fact that I would not allow someone, anyone, to physically assault me when I have done nothing wrong or illegal. Did they assault you after they pulled you over? No, then what is your point? You are saying that I can be a threat? This is true, anyone can. Does that mean that cops can go around assaulting people who have done nothing just because they "might" be a threat? Maybe you should go back and read the thread again, we are talking about a specific scenario here. I have animosity against anyone who tries to assault me with no provocation, badge or no badge. It's not a cop thing, its a human thing. I have a human right to defend myself against an unwarranted attack, WHICH IS THE SCENARIO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

I think what they are trying to say is to pick your battles and don't fight if you can't win. Setting in a jail cell being tazed and confused while the LEO sports a shiner and a broke nose is not winning. Who is walking free? Most have cameras on the front of there cars now. So you break it off in them in the court room my God if a 15 yr old gangbanger get them for police brutality then surley an older man that kept his mouth shout and was mistreated should be able to that officers badge in his trophy room.

[Mark@Sea]

Statistically speaking, as a group, HCP holders are the most law abiding demographic I can think of, including LEO's and politicians. So yeah, they are better than other people, including cops, on the whole -at least, if 'law abiding' is part of your values/judgement system.

Anybody here willing to claim that "pissing off the police", while not found in the legal codes, isn't a de-facto crime? Any police here Never seen a citizen busted on a bs charge because the arresting officer just didn't like their attitude or had a bad night at home?

Anybody not seen or heard of a case where a bad rap got turned into 'charge 'em with everything and seee what sticks'?

There are, undeniably, officers who have burned out, or use their position to powertrip at every opportunity, and even a few who use the badge to cover criminal activity. Until the thin blue line does a better job of protecting the public from their own bad apples, you're going to face suspicion, resentment, and distrust. In communities where the bad apples are prevalent (N.O., for example) the police lose the trust of the community - well, it ain't good. Covering up or ignoring these incidents and attitudes, in life or even a public forum, is counterproductive.

If your chosen response to seeing a holstered weapon on someone who presents no other indicator of criminal activity (except, perhaps a mundane traffic violation) is to prone them out, feed them some gravel - you probably need a vacation. You've become part of the problem.

Your intentions matter nought. The fact is, innocent civilians have been and will be killed by police, because of this hyper aggressive 'my safety comes before that of the public' behavior.

Is that really why you became a cop? Is feeling bad about those incidents enough of a response, or should you take a more active stance - maybe starting with an honest self appraisal?

I'm not cop-bashing, not looking for argument, just providing food for thought.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[crashgordan]

OK. back to the original thread...

My question is this:

the officer asked you to take your firearm from its holster and hand it to him??

I have a problem with this.

what is the right answer here??

I carry strong side (right).

I have both informed and not, in multiple states, and so far, no problem with either.

When i'm pulled over it is with all the windows down, interior lights on, hands on the wheel. If i inform, i state, "Officer, I am licenced to carry concealed. I am carrying on my right side. What are your instructions." So far, none have required my weapon.

But if one ever does, I would like to know how to safely do this in a way that is completely non-threatening or risks me being shot with my hand on my gun, which by the way, will not look good for me, even if i was doing exactly as i was told.

thoughts??

[Guest ADAM]

I think what they are trying to say is to pick your battles and don't fight if you can't win. Setting in a jail cell being tazed and confused while the LEO sports a shiner and a broke nose is not winning. Who is walking free? Most have cameras on the front of there cars now. So you break it off in them in the court room my God if a 15 yr old gangbanger get them for police brutality then surley an older man that kept his mouth shout and was mistreated should be able to that officers badge in his trophy room.

Bingo thats all Im saying. I do think that at times the police overreact and do slam to many people down or use to much force, but with that said if you follow simple directions you probably wont be eating gravel. And if you cant follow directions then you deserve it. COMMON SENSE

[Guest Caveman]

Statistically speaking, as a group, HCP holders are the most law abiding demographic I can think of, including LEO's and politicians. So yeah, they are better than other people, including cops, on the whole -at least, if 'law abiding' is part of your values/judgement system.

Anybody here willing to claim that "pissing off the police", while not found in the legal codes, isn't a de-facto crime? Any police here Never seen a citizen busted on a bs charge because the arresting officer just didn't like their attitude or had a bad night at home?

Anybody not seen or heard of a case where a bad rap got turned into 'charge 'em with everything and seee what sticks'?

There are, undeniably, officers who have burned out, or use their position to powertrip at every opportunity, and even a few who use the badge to cover criminal activity. Until the thin blue line does a better job of protecting the public from their own bad apples, you're going to face suspicion, resentment, and distrust. In communities where the bad apples are prevalent (N.O., for example) the police lose the trust of the community - well, it ain't good. Covering up or ignoring these incidents and attitudes, in life or even a public forum, is counterproductive.

If your chosen response to seeing a holstered weapon on someone who presents no other indicator of criminal activity (except, perhaps a mundane traffic violation) is to prone them out, feed them some gravel - you probably need a vacation. You've become part of the problem.

Your intentions matter nought. The fact is, innocent civilians have been and will be killed by police, because of this hyper aggressive 'my safety comes before that of the public' behavior.

Is that really why you became a cop? Is feeling bad about those incidents enough of a response, or should you take a more active stance - maybe starting with an honest self appraisal?

I'm not cop-bashing, not looking for argument, just providing food for thought.

+1

[inspecting1]

OK. back to the original thread...

My question is this:

the officer asked you to take your firearm from its holster and hand it to him??

I have a problem with this.

what is the right answer here??

I carry strong side (right).

I have both informed and not, in multiple states, and so far, no problem with either.

When i'm pulled over it is with all the windows down, interior lights on, hands on the wheel. If i inform, i state, "Officer, I am licenced to carry concealed. I am carrying on my right side. What are your instructions." So far, none have required my weapon.

But if one ever does, I would like to know how to safely do this in a way that is completely non-threatening or risks me being shot with my hand on my gun, which by the way, will not look good for me, even if i was doing exactly as i was told.

thoughts??

Nope asked if he could take it. Then I leaned forward and he pulled from my holster