Have Conservatives ever actually won any political battles in these United States?

[tntnixon]

After reading many news stories about the liberal victories of the last year, I started to wonder about Conservative victories. Have there actually been any?

Considering that the definition of "conservative" is one that is slow to change or "traditional", I set 1791 as my start date considering that it is the date of our Constitution. Are there any aspects of our political lives that still function the way they functioned in 1791? Are there any Constitutional Amendments that are still interpretted in the same way that our founding fathers envisioned?

I simply can't think of one, which is a rather depressing thought to say the very least. We have allowed the "progessives" to completely shape the debate over the last 200 years and have eroded our freedoms in the process. Our "conservative" leaders have brought us back half freedoms and claimed victory but have never actually gotten us back to where we started.

Although I consider myself to be very educated, I still have an eighth grade civics student's view of our Constitution. I see it through the eyes of the original writers and not of the Harvard law professor. I see the words and actually believe them without trying to figure out a way around them.

Does this make me a radical?

[1gewehr]

Political definitions are meaningless. As you have noted, 'Conservative' and 'Liberal' certainly don't mean anything the same as they meant 200 years ago. In fact, the definitions are nearly reversed.

If you believe in individual liberty as a good thing, then there have been victories. There were some significant victories in 1995 after the 'Republican Revolution' of 1994. I sincerely believe that we will see similar victories as a result of this years elections.

What is most important is to not relax our vigilance. Political party affiliation is irrelevant as we have seen. Both parties are perfectly willing to spend all the money we will let them, and encroach on our freedom until we tell them "NO!".

Sadly, that takes a level of moral fortitude I don't know that we have. It takes voters willing to refuse to accept government benefits, jobs, and services. I am afraid that your signature line has become truth in this country. Very few people love liberty more than servitude, and most refuse to even see their chains.

[Guest gts]

Very few people love liberty more than servitude, and most refuse to even see their chains.

The sad, but undeniable truth.

[leroy]

Dear TNT:______________

You have posed a thoughtful and important question for all who value the blessings of liberty to think deeply upon. I never believe that the news media (...there are a few exceptions...) will report objectively and truthfully on any political liberty issue. That makes it hard to read about them. You have to hunt for them.

That being said; here is how I would judge any real political victories for those who value liberty and are grieved at the losses.

Here goes the test:

1. Does the issue or action increase individual liberty; or does it simply lessen the limits already placed on an activity? A great issue here is the Second Amendment. Do not be deceived, the handgun carry permit issue (...which we see as a good thing...) is a restraint to what the Second Amendment originally said; not a restoration of a right that is in the Bill of Rights.

2. Does the action shrink the size of government or lessen regulation of some activity?

3. Does the action increase your ability to use your own private property the way you choose?

4. Does the action allow increased freedom in business, financial affairs, etc?

When you apply these little questions to actions and decisions taken by government (...both Federal and State...); you will see a constant eroding of freedoms at the Federal level perpetrated by both Dem and Republicans and a push back at the state level. I sincerely believe that we are again at the exact juncture in history that the state and federal governments were on the eve of the Civil War. The Federal Government is moving to tighten its power and the states are pushing back. I don’t believe that this means that another civil war is coming; I do believe that a showdown of sorts is coming between the states and the federal government. This show down will happen in the state legislatures and the courts if the federal government continues on its present course. That being said; I'm not sure that things will continue as they have because there are some great signs of change at the grass roots level in the "Real America" (...the America that pays taxes, works, etc; as opposed to the "socialist america" that is on the dole and is clamoring for more entitlements...). It may even start to correct its course in the 2012 elections if the Republicans win big (...which I think they will...).

I believe, as 1gewehr does that there have been some victories; but they happened several years ago as his post says here:

...If you believe in individual liberty as a good thing, then there have been victories. There were some significant victories in 1995 after the 'Republican Revolution' of 1994. I sincerely believe that we will see similar victories as a result of this year’s election. ...

I believe, as he does, that this hard left socialist agenda will be countered in the next election. Carter failed miserably and said bad things about America. He was thrown out in a landslide by Reagan, the last real republican president of modern times (...to date...). I believe that most folks who value liberty hold both the Dems and Republicans in contempt at this juncture in history. The fact is, that the republicans are just as guilty as democrats for allowing a socialist hack like Barak Obama to become president by running a weak RINO Republican like McCain (... who I admire on a personal basis for his courage and military service; but detest because of his autocratic, nutty political stands...). The fact is, that there is a sobering message to both political parties moving thru the "Real America" (... the one that works and pays taxes...). That message is that both parties had better move to increase freedoms, stop the anti-capitalist regulation, limit the size and power of government, shrink the size of government, stop the give-away of entitlements and dollars, and quit borrowing money we don’t have; or both parties will be swept away and marginalized by those that do believe in those values.

That's how I see things this morning.

Thanks for asking such a great question!

Kind regards,

Leroy

[mcurrier]

After reading many news stories about the liberal victories of the last year, I started to wonder about Conservative victories. Have there actually been any?

Yes. At the ballot box. Then the day that they get sworn in, they lay down and become doormats. That's as far as their victory goes.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Excellent post Leroy....I agree 100%

It kinda follows a discussion on another forum we had the other day concerning the state of a viable 3rd party.

I not only see that coming in the next few election cycles but also within the next several that both the D's and R's as we know them now to be replaced with two new parties.

Both of which should be more than willing to represent rather than rule us.

All we have to do is start showing those that dont represent us the door, enough of that should be enough to change the ideas the politicians of today have of themselves. And open the door to those who only want to serve us, just as it was meant to be.

Sadly the idea that we have slowly but continuously slipped from the original intent of the Founders is IMO very true.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

They need to be held accountable. We need to be diligent and

assertive with the candidates. We sure don't need to go stick our heads in the sand, blame both sides, not vote and let another 08 election happen again.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

I agree with pretty much everything you said except that I also paid a helluva lot of Medicare and Social Security taxes,too and considering I'm fixing to be on the disabled list I better see every damn dollar I paid in cover my problem. I don't have a problem with this if the money I "paid in" runs out because that's what I paid in. I much rather have handled this myself but my hands were tied on the matter. This problem is not going away no matter how you vote. The "honest, common sense factor" has long left the building. Elvis was late....

Dear TNT:______________

You have posed a thoughtful and important question for all who value the blessings of liberty to think deeply upon. I never believe that the news media (...there are a few exceptions...) will report objectively and truthfully on any political liberty issue. That makes it hard to read about them. You have to hunt for them.

That being said; here is how I would judge any real political victories for those who value liberty and are grieved at the losses.

Here goes the test:

1. Does the issue or action increase individual liberty; or does it simply lessen the limits already placed on an activity? A great issue here is the Second Amendment. Do not be deceived, the handgun carry permit issue (...which we see as a good thing...) is a restraint to what the Second Amendment originally said; not a restoration of a right that is in the Bill of Rights.

2. Does the action shrink the size of government or lessen regulation of some activity?

3. Does the action increase your ability to use your own private property the way you choose?

4. Does the action allow increased freedom in business, financial affairs, etc?

When you apply these little questions to actions and decisions taken by government (...both Federal and State...); you will see a constant eroding of freedoms at the Federal level perpetrated by both Dem and Republicans and a push back at the state level. I sincerely believe that we are again at the exact juncture in history that the state and federal governments were on the eve of the Civil War. The Federal Government is moving to tighten its power and the states are pushing back. I don’t believe that this means that another civil war is coming; I do believe that a showdown of sorts is coming between the states and the federal government. This show down will happen in the state legislatures and the courts if the federal government continues on its present course. That being said; I'm not sure that things will continue as they have because there are some great signs of change at the grass roots level in the "Real America" (...the America that pays taxes, works, etc; as opposed to the "socialist america" that is on the dole and is clamoring for more entitlements...). It may even start to correct its course in the 2012 elections if the Republicans win big (...which I think they will...).

I believe, as 1gewehr does that there have been some victories; but they happened several years ago as his post says here:

I believe, as he does, that this hard left socialist agenda will be countered in the next election. Carter failed miserably and said bad things about America. He was thrown out in a landslide by Reagan, the last real republican president of modern times (...to date...). I believe that most folks who value liberty hold both the Dems and Republicans in contempt at this juncture in history. The fact is, that the republicans are just as guilty as democrats for allowing a socialist hack like Barak Obama to become president by running a weak RINO Republican like McCain (... who I admire on a personal basis for his courage and military service; but detest because of his autocratic, nutty political stands...). The fact is, that there is a sobering message to both political parties moving thru the "Real America" (... the one that works and pays taxes...). That message is that both parties had better move to increase freedoms, stop the anti-capitalist regulation, limit the size and power of government, shrink the size of government, stop the give-away of entitlements and dollars, and quit borrowing money we don’t have; or both parties will be swept away and marginalized by those that do believe in those values.

That's how I see things this morning.

Thanks for asking such a great question!

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest mustangdave]

TNT...excellent post...excellent replies....though I might take exception to the 200 years of "progressive" mindset...the Progressive Movement as we understand it was begun in earnest by none other than Theodore Roosevelt at the end of the 19th Century and really got its sea legs under Woodrow Wilson and those that followed after the GREAT WAR...WWI

[mcurrier]

I agree with pretty much everything you said except that I also paid a helluva lot of Medicare and Social Security taxes,too and considering I'm fixing to be on the disabled list I better see every damn dollar I paid in cover my problem. I don't have a problem with this if the money I "paid in" runs out because that's what I paid in. I much rather have handled this myself but my hands were tied on the matter. This problem is not going away no matter how you vote. The "honest, common sense factor" has long left the building. Elvis was late....

I always knew ever since I was a kid in the 60's that I'd never grow up to see a dime of what they took for social security and medicare, so I had always made other plans. Never counted on it. Knew it was a scam from the beginning.

[tntnixon]

I always knew ever since I was a kid in the 60's that I'd never grow up to see a dime of what they took for social security and medicare, so I had always made other plans. Never counted on it. Knew it was a scam from the beginning.

If private citizens tried to do this, it would be called a pyramid scheme and we'd go to jail.