Colorado Security Guard Makes Statement

[jgrauman]

He wasn't scared, he was doing what he was supposed to do in a tactically superior... Oh wait, that line's already been tried on here...

[Mike.357]

Thanks for the input Mars.

I like to think I could act anyway.

Back when I was robbed by the shotgun wielding twosome I know I have never been more scared than I was at that instance. I definetly made fellow co-workers nervous after that by keeping a .750 size bottle of liquor next to me on the counter. No, not for drinking but it was going to be my first line of defense should a gun come through the front door of the liquor store again. I know in my heart I would have grabbed it and used it the next time. Maybe that tells me something. I sure hope to never have to find out.

I do need to work on the training thing some more.

[Guest 2HOW]

There is a paper written , called Sheep, sheepdogs and wolves that describe the kind of person we strive to be. I suggest if you havent read it to do so.http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

[Guest ETS_Inc]

I wouldn't say that the male "guard' was a coward, at least without having been present myself.

Chances are, he's never been in such a stressful, life-or-death situation before that day. He probably just froze from hypervigilance, or shell-shock. If it was his first time under fire, he was pobably suffering from common stress reactions, which include slowed reaction time, slowness of thought, difficulty prioritizing, difficulty initiating routine tasks, preoccupation with minor issues and familiar tasks, indecision and lack of concentration, loss of initiative with fatigue and exhaustion.

He was probably 100% unaware that someone was even asking for his gun, or that it was his duty to do something.

That is where experience and training come into play. You can't expect to act calm, cool, and collected when you're on the two-way live fire if the most stressful time you've handled a gun was during the firing portion of your carry permit class. Standing still, facing a paper target, shooting from a static position, concentrating on the fundamentals of marksmanship is not the same as shooting at another living human being who's shooting back at you.

Why do you think the military and law enforcement agencies do so much Force-on-Force / Simunitions / MILES training? Also, why do you think they use very lifelike targets, like the plastic "Ivan" targets, or real photos of armed people? It's because it gets the shooter used to the idea of seeing a human being in front of their sights. Even that training isn't a 100% guarantee that the shooter will rise to the occassion. Not everyone has the mindset necessary to be willing to shoot another person, even when their lives, or the lives of their loved ones are in danger. They might want to believe they do, but until they are faced with the need to do so, there's no real way of knowing for certain.

He might not have been a coward. He might have just been wholly unprepared.

[Marswolf]

He was certainly the wrong person to be placed in a position to defend other people.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

He was certainly the wrong person to be placed in a position to defend other people.

That's the truth.

[DaveTN]

I have never been in a situation where I have had the need to deploy and use my handgun. I have had a shotgun stuck in my face during a robbery though, this was before I had a permit and carried. Is there any way I can get an edge on this type of situation should I ever find myself in one similar?

I bet there are more here who have never had to shoot than are here and have had to shoot. At least I know for fact I will not crap myself if a gun is pointed at me.

If you interviewed 100 people that have been in a street shooting, you would probably have 100 different stories about their experiences and reactions.

The thing I remember most about my first shooting was that I had no thought about the mechanics of drawing and firing my weapon; my training took over and it went exactly as practiced. My mind was racing with “I think I see a gun; do I?†And “Am I legally justified in shooting this guy?â€

A lot of the “practice†is mental. You have to decide beforehand what conditions would cause you to shoot. This is a personal decision and you will live (or die) with the consequences. There are many things to think about and countless scenarios you can run through in your head. I have my own personal requirements for the use of deadly force that will satisfy the legal requirements in all 50 states (as far as I know).

Everyone has their own ideas about shooting at the range. I do two types of shooting; target shooting and defensive shooting. The two don’t have anything to do with each other and I don’t shoot the same for each.

Know the law. When you hear about shootings get as many facts as you can and see what you think you would have done.

As far as you having a shotgun stuck in your face prior to getting your carry permit…. Are you implying that now you would pull your gun? You survived didn’t you?

There are few things you will do in your life that have the ability to impact it (or end it) as much as pulling a handgun.

[Guest canynracer]

If you interviewed 100 people that have been in a street shooting, you would probably have 100 different stories about their experiences and reactions.

The thing I remember most about my first shooting was that I had no thought about the mechanics of drawing and firing my weapon; my training took over and it went exactly as practiced. My mind was racing with “I think I see a gun; do I?†And “Am I legally justified in shooting this guy?â€

A lot of the “practice†is mental. You have to decide beforehand what conditions would cause you to shoot. This is a personal decision and you will live (or die) with the consequences. There are many things to think about and countless scenarios you can run through in your head. I have my own personal requirements for the use of deadly force that will satisfy the legal requirements in all 50 states (as far as I know).

Everyone has their own ideas about shooting at the range. I do two types of shooting; target shooting and defensive shooting. The two don’t have anything to do with each other and I don’t shoot the same for each.

Know the law. When you hear about shootings get as many facts as you can and see what you think you would have done.

As far as you having a shotgun stuck in your face prior to getting your carry permit…. Are you implying that now you would pull your gun? You survived didn’t you?

There are few things you will do in your life that have the ability to impact it (or end it) as much as pulling a handgun.

well said Dave...good post...

[Guest SUNTZU]

There are few things you will do in your life that have the ability to impact it (or end it) as much as pulling a handgun.

They should post this on signs instead of "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED"

[Guest 2HOW]

Hell ya ,showd alot of grit, dam good shoot, needs a good man , shows you how you should be. stay frosty and be ready.

[towerclimber37]

He was certainly the wrong person to be placed in a position to defend other people.

we know a couple of folks like that don't we?

still, Dave is spot on. its different every time..the best thing is good training and a quick mind.

[Marswolf]

Dave is spot on.

I agree.

A lot of the “practice” is mental. You have to decide beforehand what conditions would cause you to shoot.

That's what I was trying to say about imagining yourself in a tight situation, but you made the point clearer. Thanks.

One needs to imagine that you are being attacked, but you also have to use that to figure out you will do if that occurs and prepare mentally to actually carry out that action.

While it wouldn't apply in this situation, I also want to remind folks that the way you look and act has a lot to do with whether you are chosen as a victim of violent crime. Crime prevention is better than having to get yourself out of a criminal confrontation.

BTW Mike, if someone shoved a shotgun in my face, my first reaction would be to give them what they want, not to attempt to pull a gun. There is a lot of difference between being brave and prepared versus foolhardy.

[Mike.357]

Are you implying that now you would pull your gun?

No implication. Not much you can do in that circumstance.

What happened immediately following the robbery is what was really scary. Thug #1 ran out the door with all the money. Thug #2 walked out the door with his shotgun then almost instantly came back in the doors. I really believed at that moment he was coming back to kill me and my co-worker. If at that time I had a handgun I like to believe in the time he walked out and came back in I would have had it out and shot him dead. There would have been enough time to have unconcealed a handgun and had it out before he came back in, maybe 3 seconds or so.

The stupid moron cut a phone line and walked back out the door. Duh, like a place of business only has one telephone. Must have been 8 phones in that store. So to cut a phone line he would have been shot.

Sorry for the confusion about me pulling a gun while a shotty was stuck in my nose.

And to top it all off when they finally arrested these two, it turns out they were both minors. Obviously they did not read the sign that said "No Minors" allowed inside.

They had robbed about 10 liquor stores in a month long spree. When finally arrested and charged they were only charged with one count. Charged as adults. They got 8 years for that one count. I protested to the DA about the deal but it went to no avail.

[saintsfanbrian]

Night before last one of my neighbors was robbed at gun point as they pulled in their garage. Anyone that knows the Memphis area will know that I don't live in a rough part of town (Kirby and Humphrey's behind Opera Memphis.) This was a crime of opportunity. It was late (9:30) and the home owner was coming home from a Grizzly's game. They opened the garage door and pulled in. As they got out of the car this individual pulled a gun on them. The driver then threw his wallet as far as he could and the passenger hit the garage door closer. These two things scared the robber off. He didn't get anything. The one thing this did was solidify my wife to get her permit but we also talked about what we would have done and the fact that these people did the right thing.

What I would have done, if it were my wife with a gun to her head and the kids in the car? I would have to see if the "perp" could see what I was doing. If he couldn't then I would have unholstered my weapon and been prepared. If he could then I would have given him just about anything he wanted as long as he got away from my wife and children.

If I had a clean shot? My kids ears would be ringing and they would be screaming but there would be a dead robber on my garage floor and I would be thinking about getting that new epoxy finish for it.

[Guest db99wj]

Night before last one of my neighbors was robbed at gun point as they pulled in their garage. Anyone that knows the Memphis area will know that I don't live in a rough part of town (Kirby and Humphrey's behind Opera Memphis.) This was a crime of opportunity. It was late (9:30) and the home owner was coming home from a Grizzly's game. They opened the garage door and pulled in. As they got out of the car this individual pulled a gun on them. The driver then threw his wallet as far as he could and the passenger hit the garage door closer. These two things scared the robber off. He didn't get anything. The one thing this did was solidify my wife to get her permit but we also talked about what we would have done and the fact that these people did the right thing.

What I would have done, if it were my wife with a gun to her head and the kids in the car? I would have to see if the "perp" could see what I was doing. If he couldn't then I would have unholstered my weapon and been prepared. If he could then I would have given him just about anything he wanted as long as he got away from my wife and children.

If I had a clean shot? My kids ears would be ringing and they would be screaming but there would be a dead robber on my garage floor and I would be thinking about getting that new epoxy finish for it.

Wow, that is a nice area. Goes to show that no place is a "safe place".

[DaveTN]

Night before last one of my neighbors was robbed at gun point as they pulled in their garage. Anyone that knows the Memphis area will know that I don't live in a rough part of town (Kirby and Humphrey's behind Opera Memphis.) This was a crime of opportunity. It was late (9:30) and the home owner was coming home from a Grizzly's game. They opened the garage door and pulled in. As they got out of the car this individual pulled a gun on them. The driver then threw his wallet as far as he could and the passenger hit the garage door closer. These two things scared the robber off. He didn't get anything. The one thing this did was solidify my wife to get her permit but we also talked about what we would have done and the fact that these people did the right thing.

What I would have done, if it were my wife with a gun to her head and the kids in the car? I would have to see if the "perp" could see what I was doing. If he couldn't then I would have unholstered my weapon and been prepared. If he could then I would have given him just about anything he wanted as long as he got away from my wife and children.

If I had a clean shot? My kids ears would be ringing and they would be screaming but there would be a dead robber on my garage floor and I would be thinking about getting that new epoxy finish for it.

Those are the kinds of things you have to think about. There are scenarios that you can’t win. You comply and hope for the best.

The other thing that I don’t think a lot of people think about is the fact that not all criminals are untrained idiots. You may run into an armed criminal that has skills far superior to yours. Also he doesn’t have to worry about shooting innocent bystanders or criminal and civil law.

[Marswolf]

Wow, that is a nice area. Goes to show that no place is a "safe place".

Yeah, true. But some places are more safe than others.