Real Numbers justifying Health care reform

[Guest strelcevina]

Principal and interest for $120K, for 15 years at 6% is $1012.63.

Principal and interest for $120K, for 30 years at 6% is $719.46.

Assuming property insurance is $400 a year or 33.33, and property taxes are, $1,500, or $125 you get a payment of 877.76 on a 30 year mortgage.

The numbers can vary greatly due to property taxes and insurance, depending on the city/county that you live in and vary on your personal insurance claim history plus other insurance factors. These items adjust the payment and will move the numbers in either direction, that is why I didn't use them.

I went back to my personal example, because my payment is approximately $1,000 per month, which includes principal, interest, taxes and insurance. My house is valued at $165,000 and my loan amount was between $150,000 and $155,000. These are real numbers, I also pay close to 4.5% interest and the highest property taxes in the state.

But anyway, the main point is that your scenario is flawed, by typos and the fact that the person in that scenario is living in a house that is way out of there price range, therefore, throwing all your numbers off.

you right.

i wish i could change it from 1000$ to 900$ a month.

but i cant edit it now.

when you see those round numbers.

you can be anal and squeeze a 1or 2 hundred $.

but you cant squeeze 5-6 hundred .

that is why people goes broke. there is nothing to Squeeze any more

[Hgunner]

i didn't change it myself, majority of Americans changed it.

so why you cant accept that and be Good Loser ,instead Bad one

Not so, the ruling Democratic(Marxist)Party, ingnored the majority of the

American people. They circumvented the constitution and passed this abortion in a illiegal manner.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Principal and interest for $120K, for 15 years at 6% is $1012.63.

Principal and interest for $120K, for 30 years at 6% is $719.46.

Assuming property insurance is $400 a year or 33.33, and property taxes are, $1,500, or $125 you get a payment of 877.76 on a 30 year mortgage.

The numbers can vary greatly due to property taxes and insurance, depending on the city/county that you live in and vary on your personal insurance claim history plus other insurance factors. These items adjust the payment and will move the numbers in either direction, that is why I didn't use them.

I went back to my personal example, because my payment is approximately $1,000 per month, which includes principal, interest, taxes and insurance. My house is valued at $165,000 and my loan amount was between $150,000 and $155,000. These are real numbers, I also pay close to 4.5% interest and the highest property taxes in the state.

But anyway, the main point is that your scenario is flawed, by typos and the fact that the person in that scenario is living in a house that is way out of there price range, therefore, throwing all your numbers off.

He is trying to justify by dragging people into an argument that shouldn't exist. The numbers don't justify anything. They are just used to sidestep the argument of who is responsible in society and who is not, and who should pick up the tab for who. That's a waste of time. The numbers are meaningless.

What if we could get health care for $50.00 a month? When it was that much, the price of everything else was less. The currency was more valuable then, also.

This whole argument about health care had nothing to do with the health care industry/system. It was a basic argument during FDR's reign of terror

with his 2nd Bill of Rights. At least I think that was when it started. It was just an attempt to get everyone dependent on the government. In other words, power. Back then you went to the doctor when you needed to.

Costs were relatively the same as they are now. The same conditions exist today. People being unemployed and some with low incomes just created

a perfect storm for this to brew again. The progressives have been trying

to do this forever. This whole argument has nothing to do with numbers.

It is only about who can control how you live. It is a fundamental choice.

If strel thinks this is best for him, he doesn't understand anything about the country he lives in. You can argue with him about the numbers until you are blue in the face. That's also a way the progressives change the argument. It really just conceals the truth and makes folks mad. It's

perverse justification.

[Guest strelcevina]

He is trying to justify by dragging people into an argument that shouldn't exist. The numbers don't justify anything. They are just used to sidestep the argument of who is responsible in society and who is not, and who should pick up the tab for who. That's a waste of time. The numbers are meaningless.

What if we could get health care for $50.00 a month? When it was that much, the price of everything else was less. The currency was more valuable then, also.

This whole argument about health care had nothing to do with the health care industry/system. It was a basic argument during FDR's reign of terror

with his 2nd Bill of Rights. At least I think that was when it started. It was just an attempt to get everyone dependent on the government. In other words, power. Back then you went to the doctor when you needed to.

Costs were relatively the same as they are now. The same conditions exist today. People being unemployed and some with low incomes just created

a perfect storm for this to brew again. The progressives have been trying

to do this forever. This whole argument has nothing to do with numbers.

It is only about who can control how you live. It is a fundamental choice.

If strel thinks this is best for him, he doesn't understand anything about the country he lives in. You can argue with him about the numbers until you are blue in the face. That's also a way the progressives change the argument. It really just conceals the truth and makes folks mad. It's

perverse justification.

now you saying that working for the Men, and earning a living is not important.

all companies fireing and rehiring honest hard working people, just to cut down their income you calling Meaningless.

i wish Walmart could take over a Healthcare. so everybody could have cheap affordable Insurance

and BTW

you sounds like show off, somebody who has enough and like to see others fail.

and i just got promoted from socialist to progressive , and who knows soon i may be honored to be Republican.

[Mike.357]

Middle class makes 60-65K

About 4500$ month after taxes

if that is middle class I am really doing something wrong, I don't make anywhere near that.

where do I sign up for an Obama check and other free stuff.

And why do I even bother working?

And where does one get car insurance for 50 bucks a month?

[Guest strelcevina]

if that is middle class I am really doing something wrong, I don't make anywhere near that.

where do I sign up for an Obama check and other free stuff.

And why do I even bother working?

And where does one get car insurance for 50 bucks a month?

middle class mostly 2 people working 30-35k each

i wish it was 50$

[Magiccarpetrides]

Why are we argueing....the libs have won this round...albeit they "cheated".

[Guest bkelm18]

Why are we argueing....the libs have won this round...albeit they "cheated".

Because someone feels they have won something they think they are entitled to for doing absolutely nothing and is hell bent on showing us the light.

[Guest 70below]

Personally, I think that the fact or fiction of whether the Gov't got this one right is irrelevant, its still wrong. Even if this is the one Gov't plan that was perfectly conceived and functioned exactly as it is claimed. Its still social welfare, and further errosion of our rights and responsibilites for ourselves and our families as Americans.

It charges you and I with responsibility to care for someone who has never cared for themselves or taken responsibility for their own actions. Are there good hardworking honest people that may see benefit from this plan? Probably, but we need to help our neighbors when we see them struggle, and not by a blanket insurance policy that provides coverage for those that care to think they are owed something that they are not.

The policy of this goes against the foundation of American ideals. We all recognize that there are those out there that need help, and may deserve a hand, but that is up to us to join together, cast greed aside, and support them through another American ideal, compassion. Compassion is not a Gov't program.

[Mike.357]

and Strel, in spite of your poor English I can understand what you are saying.

Don't always agree with you, but I get your gist.

[Garufa]

Personally, I think that the fact or fiction of whether the Gov't got this one right is irrelevant, its still wrong. Even if this is the one Gov't plan that was perfectly conceived and functioned exactly as it is claimed. Its still social welfare, and further errosion of our rights and responsibilites for ourselves and our families as Americans.

It charges you and I with responsibility to care for someone who has never cared for themselves or taken responsibility for their own actions. Are there good hardworking honest people that may see benefit from this plan? Probably, but we need to help our neighbors when we see them struggle, and not by a blanket insurance policy that provides coverage for those that care to think they are owed something that they are not.

The policy of this goes against the foundation of American ideals. We all recognize that there are those out there that need help, and may deserve a hand, but that is up to us to join together, cast greed aside, and support them through another American ideal, compassion. Compassion is not a Gov't program.

This is the most lucid, reasonable comment regarding Obamacare I have seen on this forum, or anywhere else.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

now you saying that working for the Men, and earning a living is not important.

all companies fireing and rehiring honest hard working people, just to cut down their income you calling Meaningless.

i wish Walmart could take over a Healthcare. so everybody could have cheap affordable Insurance

and BTW

you sounds like show off, somebody who has enough and like to see others fail.

and i just got promoted from socialist to progressive , and who knows soon i may be honored to be Republican.

Actually you can't succeed when you're on the government dole, strel. You have to do that yourself, unless you like mediocrity, because that's what the government has to offer. It would be a real stretch to say you're a republican or conservative. I wouldn't dare.

I like to see people succeed on their own, not with my tax money. I'm sorry you don't understand that. Everyone has a right to succeed or fail.

It's your choice not mine.

Socialist and progressive is essentially the same,

so no, you didn't get a promotion.

[Motasyco]

Healthcare is a service, not a right. I suppose next year the government is going to get into the cable tv business and start making me buy that for those that don't wish to provide for themselves.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Personally, I think that the fact or fiction of whether the Gov't got this one right is irrelevant, its still wrong. Even if this is the one Gov't plan that was perfectly conceived and functioned exactly as it is claimed. Its still social welfare, and further errosion of our rights and responsibilites for ourselves and our families as Americans.

It charges you and I with responsibility to care for someone who has never cared for themselves or taken responsibility for their own actions. Are there good hardworking honest people that may see benefit from this plan? Probably, but we need to help our neighbors when we see them struggle, and not by a blanket insurance policy that provides coverage for those that care to think they are owed something that they are not.

The policy of this goes against the foundation of American ideals. We all recognize that there are those out there that need help, and may deserve a hand, but that is up to us to join together, cast greed aside, and support them through another American ideal, compassion. Compassion is not a Gov't program.

Exceptional!

[Guest strelcevina]

Actually you can't succeed when you're on the government dole, strel. You have to do that yourself, unless you like mediocrity, because that's what the government has to offer. It would be a real stretch to say you're a republican or conservative. I wouldn't dare.

I like to see people succeed on their own, not with my tax money. I'm sorry you don't understand that. Everyone has a right to succeed or fail.

It's your choice not mine.

Socialist and progressive is essentially the same,

so no, you didn't get a promotion.

that is how i live my life.

even if they change whole insurance to gov. controlled one. if i see that having extra private one would be better. i would get one same second.

just like i live in peaceful neighborhood, it cost little more, but that is how it is here. pay more ,get better.

anyway i see a lot of hard working people struggling , and they should be given little help if they lose job.

dont forget after you laid off, healthcare is first thing you lose.

Btw Im looking for my personal picture addressed to me and signed from George bush, thanking for my support. so you can see it

and he didn't mind my broken English

[Garufa]

that is how i live my life.

even if they change whole insurance to gov. controlled one. if i see that having extra private one would be better. i would get one same second.

just like i live in peaceful neighborhood, it cost little more, but that is how it is here. pay more ,get better.

anyway i see a lot of hard working people struggling , and they should be given little help if they lose job.

dont forget after you laid off, healthcare is first thing you lose.

Btw Im looking for my personal picture addressed to me and signed from George bush, thanking for my support. so you can see it

and he didn't mind my broken English

You're alright in my book Strel, the broken-English smart-ass that you are.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And I hope that picture comes soon. Someone else mentioned your broken english.

Just so you know, that extra insurance won't be available. There won't be anyone

else selling health insurance when this happens. There will be administrators for the government health care, and then it will become single payer with no choices except

"take a number, get in line".

[Guest strelcevina]

You're alright in my book Strel, the broken-English smart-ass that you are.

I take that

[Guest mikedwood]

1st off depending on age neither family can afford healthcare at modern day prices. I still don't know and I really want to know how much policies are going to cost.

I have personally seen insurance for people in thier 50's with diabetes in the $500 to $700 range. Work plans where for one person it's $250 and add anyone else 1-14 people flat rates of $650 and up up up.

Also are they going to make you pay for insurance all year and recoupe that with a tax credit or break at the end of the year? That will mean 11 TIGHT (if even possible) months for some people.

Will poor peoples insurance just be paid?

I don't know if any of that makes sence, the questions are clear in my head though.

Personally, I think that the fact or fiction of whether the Gov't got this one right is irrelevant, its still wrong. Even if this is the one Gov't plan that was perfectly conceived and functioned exactly as it is claimed. Its still social welfare, and further errosion of our rights and responsibilites for ourselves and our families as Americans.

It charges you and I with responsibility to care for someone who has never cared for themselves or taken responsibility for their own actions. Are there good hardworking honest people that may see benefit from this plan? Probably, but we need to help our neighbors when we see them struggle, and not by a blanket insurance policy that provides coverage for those that care to think they are owed something that they are not.

The policy of this goes against the foundation of American ideals. We all recognize that there are those out there that need help, and may deserve a hand, but that is up to us to join together, cast greed aside, and support them through another American ideal, compassion. Compassion is not a Gov't program.

This healthcare bill is when freedom died for sure. There will be nothing out of the control of the government now.

I was listening to the radio the other day and the question was "Does your employer have the right to tell you you cannot smoke even at home"

I think no, unless they are paying part of your healthcare. Then they have a stake in your well being cause it could raise thier rates. Well now we move that across the nation and everyone has a stake in everyone elses healthcare.

So smoking is out. Yay, I'm sure most will say.

Salt is dangerous and under attack in New York.

Sugar is under attack.

Fatty foods are under attack.

Also alcohol, riding motorcycles and yes even firearms are considered dangerous.

Perhaps to dangerous for us Americans now.

[Oh Shoot]

And where does one get car insurance for 50 bucks a month?

Mike, I pay about $25/month for little red and about $20/month for big blue. With collision. Course, if it costs more than probably about 5 or 7 grand to fix either of them, they'd be considered totaled.

- OS

[G27]

dont forget after you laid off, healthcare is first thing you lose.

Ugh!

I'm SO TIRED of seeing this rhetoric, this LIE being spread about.

You do NOT lose health care, you lose HEALTH INSURANCE. They are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

And no matter how many 'facts' you try to present, you've obviously missed the fact that, for most of us, this is an affront to our liberty. I couldn't care less if this saves me money, I don't want it as it attacks my free will.

I don't even know why I typed this as I'm certain you won't get it and will continue to argue as if our liberty is a bargaining chip.

[Guest strelcevina]

Ugh!

I'm SO TIRED of seeing this rhetoric, this LIE being spread about.

You do NOT lose health care, you lose HEALTH INSURANCE. They are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

And no matter how many 'facts' you try to present, you've obviously missed the fact that, for most of us, this is an affront to our liberty. I couldn't care less if this saves me money, I don't want it as it attacks my free will.

I don't even know why I typed this as I'm certain you won't get it and will continue to argue as if our liberty is a bargaining chip.

sorry for that. my bad

i meant to say Health Insurance. next time i will make sure to write Insurance

[Guest SUNTZU]

Personally, I think that the fact or fiction of whether the Gov't got this one right is irrelevant, its still wrong. Even if this is the one Gov't plan that was perfectly conceived and functioned exactly as it is claimed. Its still social welfare, and further errosion of our rights and responsibilites for ourselves and our families as Americans.

It charges you and I with responsibility to care for someone who has never cared for themselves or taken responsibility for their own actions. Are there good hardworking honest people that may see benefit from this plan? Probably, but we need to help our neighbors when we see them struggle, and not by a blanket insurance policy that provides coverage for those that care to think they are owed something that they are not.

The policy of this goes against the foundation of American ideals. We all recognize that there are those out there that need help, and may deserve a hand, but that is up to us to join together, cast greed aside, and support them through another American ideal, compassion. Compassion is not a Gov't program.

You must be from Alaska.