Real Numbers justifying Health care reform

[Guest strelcevina]

like Title said ,it is about real Numbers and not a BS.

like most of you ,who just pick a side no meter what .

and for one who constantly said, i just don't understand you as a excuse to prove your point.

anyway let talk some Numbers. No English needed here:tough:

there is no need to calculate poor or rich, so i will do average and middle class.

and that is how i justify a healthcare reform. if U.S. wonts to lead further in Future. they got to free more money for other things

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Average household income in us is about 35-40K

About 2500$ month after taxes

Average's

rent or mortgage 1000$

utilities 150$

food 500$

childcare for 1 child 400$

gas for a car 150$

car insurance 50$

what = 1250$ monthly or leave you with 250$ to pay for health insurance , a car loan, cell phone , internet,etc..etc..

and in our case ammo and trip to gun range or even purchase of guns .

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Middle class makes 60-65K

About 4500$ month after taxes

Average's

rent or mortgage is 1300-1500$ better aria

utilities 250$

food 500$

childcare for 2 child 800$

gas for a 2 cars 350$ that is mostly 2 working perents

car insurance 100$

what = 3500$ monthly or leave you 1000$ to pay for health insurance , a car loan, cell phone , internet,

and in our case ammo and trip to gun range or even purchase of guns

[LagerHead]

like Title said ,it is about real Numbers and not a BS.

like most of you ,who just pick a side no meter what .

and for one who constantly said, i just don't understand you as a excuse to prove your point.

anyway let talk some Numbers. No English needed here:tough:

there is no need to calculate poor or rich, so i will do average and middle class.

and that is how i justify a healthcare reform. if U.S. wonts to lead further in Future. they got to free more money for other things

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Average household income in us is about 35-40K

About 2500$ month after taxes

Average's

rent or mortgage 1000$

utilities 150$

food 500$

childcare for 1 child 400$

gas for a car 150$

car insurance 50$

what = 1250$ monthly or leave you with 250$ to pay for health insurance , a car loan, cell phone , internet,etc..etc..

and in our case ammo and trip to gun range or even purchase of guns .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Middle class makes 60-65K

About 4500$ month after taxes

Average's

rent or mortgage is 1300-1500$ better aria

utilities 250$

food 500$

childcare for 2 child 800$

gas for a 2 cars 350$ that is mostly 2 working perents

car insurance 100$

what = 3500$ monthly or leave you 1000$ to pay for health insurance , a car loan, cell phone , internet,

and in our case ammo and trip to gun range or even purchase of guns

Are those "real" numbers, or your guess? Because they sure look like 76% of statistics, i.e. made up on the spot. Care to link to a source?

While you're at it, care to explain how that's justification when there isn't a comparison to what we are going to be paying in the future, especially when you consider that the government has never correctly estimated the cost of...well, anything?

You keep trying to make an argument, and for that I commend you. But when someone points out the many obvious flaws in your argument, you simply start a new thread. Let's finish this thing, right here, right now.

[tntnixon]

OK, Borat, I see your numbers.

What I don't see is your reasoning that if one group of people has something that another group does not, then that group should use the power of the government to take away from the one and give to the other.

I see people like you as no better than looters after the hurricane. You try to take that which you did not earn. Merely using the government to do it does not justify the actions.

Our Constitution was enacted by a group of men who absolutely despised government. They believed in individual rights and responsibilties, not government sposored tyranny. They actually forbade this type of action, in thr future, by enacting the 10th Amendment.

Unfortunately, many people, like youself, have decided what they want the Constution to say rather than follow the original meaning. They have chosen to petition the courts for rulings that ignore the words' meanings rather than to attempt to go through the arduous task of amending the document.

[Hgunner]

So how does this in any way shape or form justify the Big 0's healthcare reform.

My parents both worked and raised 4 kids, I rasied 2, my son is raisng 3, whats your point. Life is life you can't afford your kids don't have them, it's not my responsibility to raise or support them.

Fine for not bying health insurance $167 a month (based on healthcare bill's $2000

a year fine for not buying approved plan.) add that to your jumble of numbers.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That doesn't justify anything, strel. Justifying something comes from what you might call "Justice". You seem to be calling this some kind of "social justice". Numbers only confuse

the issue. What someone has and what someone wants don't necessarily go together.

It still boils down to 'your' definition of justice. I don't owe 'you' a thing. I owe my family, but no one else, to provide for things like health care, food and shelter.

Numbers are meaningless until you understand your role in society. Evidently, you think everyone else owes 'you' something. It doesn't work until you give up your

other rights, like freedom to choose, to defend yourself, to exist and to pursue happiness.

[Hgunner]

Gosh 6.8 i really liked that ......well said.

[Hgunner]

OK, Borat

Now that's funny....

[Guest jackdm3]

That's what I keep saying! 6.8 needs to run for the office of his choosing.

[Hgunner]

Just to clarify.. I mentioned raising kids because in Borat's thread of Personal reasons why - Healthcare. He mentioned he was raising 2 boys and paying $5000 a year for health insurance. Thus the comments on rasing kids.

[Guest Bronker]

The typical uninformed, rank-and-file, unrealistic liberal thinking laced with the bitterness of a sense of entitlement.

Easy for you to rationalize because you are most likely in the populous of people that won't be harnessed with having to pay for it.

[ShamGlock]

Can somebody help me out here. How in the hell are ya'll arguing with a paragraph that is barely legible and then a list of made up numbers. When he said no English needed here he went all out. Looks like he has this debate in the bag based o nthe indefensible and time honored jibberish tactic. Sorry guys, better luck next thread!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Gosh 6.8 i really liked that ......well said.

Thanks

That's what I keep saying! 6.8 needs to run for the office of his choosing.

No, thanks.

[LagerHead]

Can somebody help me out here. How in the hell are ya'll arguing with a paragraph that is barely legible and then a list of made up numbers. When he said no English needed here he went all out. Looks like he has this debate in the bag based on the indefensible and time honored jibberish tactic. Sorry guys, better luck next thread!

That had me laughing out loud. Well played.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I hope strel is open minded enough to see this is the USA and has it's own set of laws.

This isn't Europe. We do things differently here, and usually welcome new ideas, but our

laws don't need to coddle others to feel like they are still home. Most have come here for opportunity. I think strel probably did, also, just has a few things left to understand.

I imagine it can be a struggle to get used to freedom from oppression, and fighting for something you might not have had before might be a foreign concept, still. Hope I'm right about that.

[Guest db99wj]

About 2500$ month after taxes

Average's

rent or mortgage 1000$

utilities 150$

food 500$

childcare for 1 child 400$

gas for a car 150$

car insurance 50$

what = 1250$ monthly or leave you with 250$ to pay for health insurance , a car loan, cell phone , internet,etc..etc..

and in our case ammo and trip to gun range or even purchase of guns .

Math is flawed as well, that $1250 should be $2250 leaving the $250. And for this scenario, a car payment, cell phone, internet, ammo, range trip is not in the budget. Another problem with this situation is this person is living beyond there means, the rent/mortgage payment alone is way to high for this person, they live in too much house. That payment is for around a $160,000 house here in Memphis and that would include homeowners insurance and property taxes. It would be closer to the $200,000 range out in the counties and even more in rural area with lower property tax rates.

[Guest strelcevina]

That doesn't justify anything, strel. Justifying something comes from what you might call "Justice". You seem to be calling this some kind of "social justice". Numbers only confuse

the issue. What someone has and what someone wants don't necessarily go together.

It still boils down to 'your' definition of justice. I don't owe 'you' a thing. I owe my family, but no one else, to provide for things like health care, food and shelter.

Numbers are meaningless until you understand your role in society. Evidently, you think everyone else owes 'you' something. It doesn't work until you give up your

other rights, like freedom to choose, to defend yourself, to exist and to pursue happiness.

sadly this is not a list of made up numbers.

just google it

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your BS and name calling doesn't help with a numbers.

let me take your statement

""Numbers only confuse the issue ""

i cant even believe that you said something like that. that is so arogant

but anyway

last time U.S. sold a lot of Bad debt to other countries as a package. and real estate mortgages was one of them.

so we all know what happened with that.

now other countries don't wont to take that risk any more , what it leaves you with "use what you have"

so those numbers says U.S future. there is no more extra.

if you think 2+2=4 than show me what is 2 and where it ads another 2 to be 4.

or if you think that 2+2x2=8 you wrong it is 6 period. numbers don't lie

@tntnixon

u taking risk , your female relatives and sexy time:tough:

[TripleDigitRide]

It's difficult to take someone who thinks Hendersonville is a bad part of town very seriously. Appears to be a bunch of Antioch arithmetic to me.

[Guest strelcevina]

Math is flawed as well, that $1250 should be $2250 leaving the $250. And for this scenario, a car payment, cell phone, internet, ammo, range trip is not in the budget. Another problem with this situation is this person is living beyond there means, the rent/mortgage payment alone is way to high for this person, they live in too much house. That payment is for around a $160,000 house here in Memphis and that would include homeowners insurance and property taxes. It would be closer to the $200,000 range out in the counties and even more in rural area with lower property tax rates.

it is typo, you can see that,

so stop calling it flowed to prove your point

edited to add

it would be more like 120K house

[Guest strelcevina]

It's difficult to take someone who thinks Hendersonville is a bad part of town very seriously. Appears to be a bunch of Antioch arithmetic to me.

you very funny. Antioch

that is your common sense. stick with it and you will be very successful

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If you live by the sword, die by the sword. Numbers are meaningless until you grasp the concept of freedom to choose your own destiny. Whatever arrogance I might have displayed you took a turn in the wrong direction. Not kosher.

You don't understand the underlying concepts, which you need to before you start displaying numbers that are skewed by whoever makes them up. Our CBO has never got it right, when it comes to making projections about what costs are for a bill, before it becomes law, so, why would you believe this health care bill will save you or your children when it will bankrupt "Your" country. If it will benefit you so much, enjoy it while it lasts.

As for the arrogance thing, don't be a putz, shows little character. Wiki your constitution and study that!

[Guest db99wj]

it is typo, you can see that,

so stop calling it flowed to prove your point

edited to add

it would be more like 120K house

To have a valid argument, you need to have accurate information, especially when dealing with math.

Actually no.

I actually used estimated numbers due to my house payment being $997 per month, based on a $150,000 value/loan amount, 30yr loan, my rate is below the national average at around 4.5%. I will agree that the "close to $200K mark was a little out of range, but not the rest. The rural areas and other lower property tax areas could see a loan amount of around $160,000.

Lets look at real numbers, A house with a $1,000 payment, at 6% rate (which includes around 3/4 to 1 point, or national average this week of 5.16% plus .84 points = 6% according to bankrate.com), for 30 years is 166,791. This is not inclusive of insurance and property taxes.

One other variable, if you look at the down payment and add that to the loan amount to get a house purchase price only, that $160,000 loan amount, 3% (FHA) down payment back into it, gives you a purchase price of $164,800 (160000 * 1.03= 164800)

With all that, point is, your scenario has someone living in way to big of a house.

[Guest strelcevina]

@db99wj

i didnt wont to be anal with a numbers. so i made it simple

120-130K 6-7% ith tax and insurance included

is around 1000$ a month

[tntnixon]

Let me make this simple for you: Hellth Kare Beal is badd foor Kuntrie!!!! Yoo kant chainj owr laws to maik uss moor lyk Yoorope.

[Guest db99wj]

@db99wj

i didnt wont to be anal with a numbers. so i made it simple

120-130K 6-7% ith tax and insurance included

is around 1000$ a month

Principal and interest for $120K, for 15 years at 6% is $1012.63.

Principal and interest for $120K, for 30 years at 6% is $719.46.

Assuming property insurance is $400 a year or 33.33, and property taxes are, $1,500, or $125 you get a payment of 877.76 on a 30 year mortgage.

The numbers can vary greatly due to property taxes and insurance, depending on the city/county that you live in and vary on your personal insurance claim history plus other insurance factors. These items adjust the payment and will move the numbers in either direction, that is why I didn't use them.

I went back to my personal example, because my payment is approximately $1,000 per month, which includes principal, interest, taxes and insurance. My house is valued at $165,000 and my loan amount was between $150,000 and $155,000. These are real numbers, I also pay close to 4.5% interest and the highest property taxes in the state.

But anyway, the main point is that your scenario is flawed, by typos and the fact that the person in that scenario is living in a house that is way out of there price range, therefore, throwing all your numbers off.

[Guest strelcevina]

Let me make this simple for you: Hellth Kare Beal is badd foor Kuntrie!!!! Yoo kant chainj owr laws to maik uss moor lyk Yoorope.

i didn't change it myself, majority of Americans changed it.

so why you cant accept that and be Good Loser ,instead Bad one