Restaurant Carry Bill

[Guest 270win]

Yeah this isn't about restaurants/bars anymore. The sign thing has given me mixed feelings....because there are some places that I have to go that I may not spend money...such as the hospital...a state/local govt building..that may not have the 'proper' signs...but you know...I just keep the handgun concealed and mind my own business. Snubs hide great...and I've carried it all over the country in states where I have a license and no one has known about it. I can see how this sign thing can hassle folks who carry a larger handgun that is only covered by a T shirt and the shirt rides up uncovering the handgun....b/c we do not require concealment in TN....but with this sign you can be hassled....silly yes...I just act as though I still live in Arkansas where I am required by law to conceal....b/c what people don't know doesn't hurt them. Crummy..yes...but kind of hard for folks to know about my snub without running me through a metal detector/pat down...and that isn't happening over a sign for five hundred bucks that is never enforced. Drug dealers, prostitutes, dopeheads, drunks, etc roam the public freely in the open and and are caught and released like fish IF they are ever caught.....I'm not worried about myself and I don't think the law in practice is either....the alcohol max fine in TN shocked me when moving here 2500 bucks!!! NUTS! At least that is eliminated...though I doubt people were ever fined that max either.

Edited May 14, 2010 by 270win

[Guest HexHead]

Yep.

Can't say it upsets me.

I know, it's a 180 from where I was earlier, but after watching these dbags doing anything they can to derail our ability to exercise our rights, I'm in a vindictive mood. Screw 'em.

I've always been like that. I've been known to carry a grudge for decades. LOLOLOL

I've been saying all along, the restaurant owners wanted to **** with us, they should suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

[JAB]

It is not my intent to make light of anyone else's concerns. However, as dang near every Mexican restaurant, Chinese restaurant and Mom and Pop restaurant in my area seems to list beer among the beverage choices on their menu, I go to restaurants where alchohol is served (to eat, not drink - drinking at home is cheaper and I usually have better beer) a whole lot more often than I go to the emergency room - and I really hope it stays that way.

Mike .357, do you see that many circle/slash signs posted now? That isn't a rhetorical question - I really want to know. I can only think of two that I have seen in the Knoxville area. One was at Ray's ESG and the other was at Wild Wing Cafe (both after Bonnyman legislated from the bench...er...overturned the law, meaning they were legal places to carry, anyway.) I don't go to either place more than once or twice a year and could easily survive without going to either ever, again.

Maybe I am being overly hopeful but I sincerely doubt that many places will suddenly post once this law changes. As I have said, before, I doubt that many business owners were aware that the circle/slash wasn't already a legal posting - yet I haven't seen those on many doors, at all.

Edited May 14, 2010 by JAB

[Mike.357]

I am just thankful I usually go through the back door into places that alcohol is served. I will never see any signage there I am sure.

St.Mary's had the ghost buster sign last time I was there. believe me it was not by choice to be there. The sign at Rays was/used to be on a window, same with whatever they call Michael's now. Both are ghost buster signs. Knox Center mall had a "no weapons" sign I recall seeing once. IIRC Hooters on Kingston Pk had a circle/slash sign. A Jared's (sp) over by West Town Mall was a circle slash. The gunshop on Alcoa Highway had a "no loaded guns" sign which was not legal but now might be?? I know I have seen others just have a bad short term memory.

Maybe I am wrong, and hope I will be wrong. But it is soo simple to put up a ghostbuster sign or sticker. I have seen these stickers for sale at several shops in Gatlinburg. I am sure they are easily available.

[Oh Shoot]

...

Maybe I am wrong, and hope I will be wrong. But it is soo simple to put up a ghostbuster sign or sticker. I have seen these stickers for sale at several shops in Gatlinburg. I am sure they are easily available.

We also don't know what influence might be exerted from various merchant associations, either. Or from corporate headquarters of various chains, both restaurant and general merchandise vendors.

When you make something so easy to do, a certain number of merchants are simply more likely to do it. Particularly if the ban sticker is given to them with the suggestion.

- OS

[Smith]

We also don't know what influence might be exerted from various merchant associations, either. Or from corporate headquarters of various chains, both restaurant and general merchandise vendors.

When you make something so easy to do, a certain number of merchants are simply more likely to do it. Particularly if the ban sticker is given to them with the suggestion.

- OS

+1. They just made many of the place I go legally enforcible now. So I maybe get a few restaurants and loose a LOT of other places I actually go to on a regular basis. I would also imagine this has more impact in the major cities as opposed to smaller towns. Here is Nashville it seem darn near everywhere has the circle slash minus the correct wording.

[Guest HexHead]

We also don't know what influence might be exerted from various merchant associations, either. Or from corporate headquarters of various chains, both restaurant and general merchandise vendors.

When you make something so easy to do, a certain number of merchants are simply more likely to do it. Particularly if the ban sticker is given to them with the suggestion.

- OS

Bingo. I'm not worried about the big national chains. They don't post in the other states as far as I've ever seen, didn't last summer (except for Outback) and probably won't now. But I hardly eat at them anyway. Fridays, Chilis, etc, they all suck.

But you hit the nail on the head. I can't speak for East or West Tennessee, but here in Nashville proper, we have a very anti-gun Chamber of Commerce that's fought this bill tooth and nail as well as the restaurant assn. and the hospitality assn. These idiots actually believe all the tourists (from those other 40 states that allow it) will all be too scared to come to Nashville and go into any restaurant that doesn't post. Rayburn is very well respected by these people and they are influenced by him. I'm very concerned that they will start going around to their members with the clear circle/ slash / gun sign that looks just like the one already on the door with a cigarette and convince the members to put it up next to the other one, "to prevent any problems". I know if I was them that's exactly what I'd do. It's a much easier sell for them than the old sign with all the legal mumbo jumbo on it.

Like Mike, I hope to hell I'm wrong. Unfortunately, my track record on predicting what's gonna happen has been pretty good.

[Guest HexHead]

Here is Nashville it seem darn near everywhere has the circle slash minus the correct wording.

You sure you're not seeing the cigarette sign?

[Mike.357]

maybe this is a reach but what about anti gun activists who can easily slap a sticker up on a doorway with the circle slash thing.

Would anyone but us notice it? Would an employee make any effort to remove it?

[Worriedman]

We also don't know what influence might be exerted from various merchant associations, either. Or from corporate headquarters of various chains, both restaurant and general merchandise vendors.

When you make something so easy to do, a certain number of merchants are simply more likely to do it. Particularly if the ban sticker is given to them with the suggestion.

- OS

At which point, if we are wise enough to ride the wave of discontent, we vote with our dollars, or lack thereof.

[Worriedman]

maybe this is a reach but what about anti gun activists who can easily slap a sticker up on a doorway with the circle slash thing.

Would anyone but us notice it? Would an employee make any effort to remove it?

If and when you notice new ones going up, politely inquire of the management. Make sure you let them know you will help spread the word of their choice to limit Constitutional Rights.

[saintsfanbrian]

maybe this is a reach but what about anti gun activists who can easily slap a sticker up on a doorway with the circle slash thing.

Would anyone but us notice it? Would an employee make any effort to remove it?

Inquire w/ the manager/owner as to why the sign was put up and explain to them that you will not be back and that your friends will not be back. Sooner or later it may affect them enough to take it down.

[Guest 270win]

I have never seen one of those signs at Outbacks in Arkansas..in Little Rock, Jonesboro, or NW Arkansas. Maybe I don't notice much....I know I didn't see any in south Florida when on vacation...not that they mean anything down there.

The hospital (those places are paranoid) deal isn't too great for folks concerned about that. Some people, like pastors, doctors, deacons, elders, family, have to go to hospitals quite a bit. My philosophy is my mind is on other things when I go to the hospital and i highly doubt these signs are on every entrance...and my handgun is concealed at the hospital...never had a problem here in TN or in Arkansas. I have had medical drug test done at a Baptist Memorial Minor Med outside Memphis and it had a 'no gun' sign if I really looked...anyhow...I had to empty my pockets...and I told the nurse that I had a handgun..I did tell her I had a permit to not scare her..no big deal...she let me put it in the tray and covered it...all was well...when done I put my snub back in my pocket and thanked the nurse..that's the only time anyone has found out I've had a handgun in one of these places with a sign.

Memphis is just not a place where I either care to leave a gun in my car or not have a gun on me over a sign...i've heard first hand of a robbery done to a coworker and also an aquaintance downtown in parking lots one in broad daylight 800AM on Union the other around dinner time after dark in a restaurant parking lot...my gun stays on me...Memphis isn't the #2 most violent city in America for nothing.

Edited May 14, 2010 by 270win

[Guest TnRebel]

If establishments start getting enough of theses cards then they will realise the business they are losing.

[Il Duce]

Chattanooga area must be pro-gun cause the only places Ive seen posted were both Northgate and Hamilton Place malls....oh yeah and Craplidge Park.

[jughead]

when did northgate post? been about 2 months since i have been there and specifically looked for a sign didnt see one

[Guest Usagi]

when did northgate post? been about 2 months since i have been there and specifically looked for a sign didnt see one

It was not properly posted last time I visited (Christmas).

They had a sign off to the side that said something to the effect of "rules." One of the "rules" was "no firearms."

Since the verbage was nowhere near proper,

and since this rule was obviously meant to disuade criminals and not the law abiding,

and since the wording was not plainly visible,

I concluded they did not wish to prohibit law-abiding HCP holders from carrying on the premises.

[Oh Shoot]

At which point, if we are wise enough to ride the wave of discontent, we vote with our dollars, or lack thereof.

Big deal.

HCP holders are no more than 5% of the state population and probably only half of those regularly carry, or even care enough to avoid a posted biz.

Unless you want to organize specific boycotts, 2.5% of the population spread statewide will have just about zero impact.

- OS

[Mike.357]

totally agree with you OS.

[Worriedman]

Big deal.

HCP holders are no more than 5% of the state population and probably only half of those regularly carry, or even care enough to avoid a posted biz.

Unless you want to organize specific boycotts, 2.5% of the population spread statewide will have just about zero impact.

- OS

I would suspect from the demographics I have seen, that the average HCP holder is older, and has family. So that one individual may effect numerous individuals, and most of them will have money to spend. If you just figure one person to go with each HCP holder, that is nearly 600,000 people. I do not care what percentage of the population that is, most holders are of an age to get out and spend money, and that amount of people, united, will make a big difference.

In my case, the local Pub/eatery that was a favorite hangout and lunch spot for my firm, lost 10-15 lunches a week, a lot of cold beer sales in the afternoon, plus the client meetings that we took to Outback, which here did not post.

If one choses not to get involved and advocate, to not speak to other hunters and shooters, just not do a thing, to sit and accept the situation as an "Oh well", then we deserve what we get.

[Daps]

I agree with OhShoot. In the grand scheme of things we're a small percent.

I don't like that they made the slash gun. Like I posted earlier. It's going to be easier to just go in the managers off and print out a sign and stick it up. Even printing one that sticks to glass isn't that hard. I can see some chamber of commerce or anti's just bulk mailing them out as the cost will be very small

[GKar]

Two different approaches to dealing with the same problem: one trying to remedy an unpopular/inconvenient posting by rendering it non-binding, the other trying to remedy it by addressing the underlying attitude/behavior. Which is "teaching a man to fish"?

To me, we do ourselves and those coming after us a far greater service by taking the latter approach. If the majority of postings are, as characterized here, placed simply as a matter of convenience in response to some action enabling that convenience, then does it not seem possible that engaging the poster with viable arguments as to why that action is irresponsible/ill-thought will meet with results? Which, if successful, not only remedies the current situation but also quite likely prevents a future occurrence regardless of whateve twist-or-turn the law may take. These gains seem more valuable in the long run than continuing to play the "technicality" game - for as long as the opposition sees that as the battleground, the fight never wanes. But if we are successful in changing attitudes/behaviors of the business owners, we've just made the opposition's task immensely more difficult, all the while improving the landscape for our own.

To base the major portion of our resistance on ever-tightening the definition of "proper posting" is a path that, to me, is actually selling this cause short...if we can't make the convincing arguments, what have we really gained by "being able to walk past a sign"?

[Worriedman]

The most effect currency to affect this whole situation is votes. I have been of the opinion my whole life that the spoils go the one who works the hardest, and thinks.

In the last Presidential election, We all saw what a glib, smooth tongued individual can accomplish with enough labor behind the effort, and some thought applied.

In high school, living in a little one horse town in West TN, the boys I ran with made our minds up to spend the time outside of what the coach required, to do the extra work needed to excel. When it got hot, and you got tired, the leaders of the group picked, prodded and pushed the rest to stay on task. When other kids were laying out at the pool, we were lifting weights and watching films. (During the summer, that was after working a full day in the family business, which happened to be concrete) It paid off, we went 12-0 and took the State Championship. To the day I die I have that memory, and no regrets for having laid down and quit. The broken bones, blisters and pulled muscles gave every reason to give up and say "I can't". I did not then, and I can not now.

Make your own choice, talk to Legislators, hunting groups, Tea Party meetings, lead by example, or stay on the porch and moan about how cruel the world treats you.

Can't never did a thing.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Worriedman

[Guest TNReb]

Bravo WorriedMan! Well said.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

So.... All of this talk and speculation about the sill circle/slash sign is making me dizzy. Bredesen didn't veto the bill today that I can see. Does anyone know if he left for China already?