Restaurant Carry Bill

[Guest HexHead]

It will have to be a non-adult beverage, because I don't drink and I'm always carrying.

In that case the free refills are on me. hahahahaha

[Guest HexHead]

I haven't been on top of the latest changes of this bill that is trying to pass. But really what I am wondering is what good a law like this would even do for permit holders? If the bill does pass and it allows people with HCPs to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol only for there to be a provision for establishments to post an "no guns allowed" sign on their doors then what ground have we gained? It is almost like a catch-22 no matter which way you look at it. I believe that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to carry a firearm for protection and that it cannot be forced onto a person or business who does not want weapons on their property. Maybe there is something I am missing, but it seems to me that even if this bill is passed, we will still be limited to carrying guns to places we can already carry into now. I am sure the lawyers or insurance companies for the big restaurant chains like Applebees, Chilis, etc. would make sure that their businesses are posted with the correct signage if the bill passes into law. I am not sure about local non-francised businesses would be willing to follow suit but I guess if they absolutely did not want guns in their establishments, they would spend the time and money to make sure the signs on their doors were compliant with the law. Correct me if I am wrong (and I very well may be) but I just don't see how this bill or any bill for that matter will change anything from what we have now.

Thankfully, if past performance is any indication, you couldn't be more wrong.

When the previous law was in effect last year, comparatively very few places posted, and any national chains like Outback were the exception rather than the rule. Most of those large nationwide chains also do business in many of the other states that also allow carry in restaurants that serve alcohol without incident, so it's not an issue for them. You're believing too much of what you hear by the bedwetters predictions, that have no basis in fact. Contrary to what you hear by liars in the media, insurance companies don't charge more for establishments that don't post. There isn't even a question on the app about it.

I've traveled through half a dozen states around TN, and never once saw a "Posted" sign.

Edited May 3, 2010 by HexHead

[Guest don_m]

I am sure the lawyers or insurance companies for the big restaurant chains like Applebees, Chilis, etc. would make sure that their businesses are posted with the correct signage if the bill passes into law.

Not necessarily. Here in Pennsylvania, there are no restrictions on carry in restaurants or even bars -- even if you choose to partake of an adult beverage. I've never seen a no-guns sign at these chains -- or any other restaurant, for that matter. And I'm talking about the upscale suburbs of Philly -- not out in the sticks.

[Guest TnRebel]

I just moved back here to Tn. from Florida in Jan , In Florida they only post gov. bld. and Hosp. all the Restaurants you can carry in at first in 1997 when Fl started issuing permits some restaurants tried to post especially in the big theme park arias . and Mr. Mouse posted and got away with it for their fireworks storage , go figure . and in all those years there has never been a drunken shoot outs. I drove through Ga., S.C. , N.C. and stopped at allot of chain restaurants and never saw a posting. but then too those states know the difference in a " Beer Joint ( Dive ) and a restaurant that serves drinks.

[Guest TnRebel]

I just got this in an email this morning. Did anyone else git it ?

NRA Alert

Restaurant Carry Reform Measure Needs Your Help Today!

Please Contact Your State Representative!

On Wednesday, May 5, your State Representative, Dale Ford, will consider House Bill 3125, sponsored by State Representative Curry Todd (R-95).

Unfortunately, HB3125 currently has an anti-gun amendment attached. Authored by State Representative Harry Tindell (D-13), the anti-gun amendment, amongst other things, creates a vagueness standard for the owner of an establishment who would have to determine whether or not the establishment is subject to a mandatory posting in the first place. This anti-gun amendment was the cause of a similar court ruling last November. The previously enacted law was held to be unconstitutionally vague because of a perceived ambiguity over the state’s definition of restaurants.

The best option for the Tennessee State House is to substitute HB3125 and its attached anti-gun amendment with Senate Bill 3012. SB3012, the companion bill to HB3125, passed the State Senate by a vote of 23-9 on Thursday, April 29. This legislation is now headed to the House for consideration.

Authored by State Senator Doug Jackson (D-25), SB3012 would enable a person who has a valid Right-to-Carry permit to carry a firearm for self-defense in restaurants where alcohol may be served, as long as the permit holder is not consuming alcohol or is not otherwise prohibited by posting provisions. Alcohol consumption would be prohibited and violation would result in the loss of a permit for three years. SB3012 also clearly defines posting provisions.

Your State Representative, Dale Ford, is a key vote on this legislation. Please contact State Representative Dale Ford today at (615) 741-1717 or rep.dale.ford@capitol.tn.gov and respectfully urge him to support restaurant carry reform by substituting HB3125 with SB3012.

[molonlabetn]

I guess it would make too much sense for them to simply repeal any reference to possessing a weapon where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption, and simply make it illegal to consume or be under the influence of alcohol while in possession of a firearm.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

I guess it would make too much sense for them to simply repeal any reference to possessing a weapon where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption, and simply make it illegal to consume or be under the influence of alcohol while in possession of a firearm.

That would be too easy!

[Stranger45]

Hey Froggy, that makes twice today I agree with you.

[Guest 270win]

Froggy,

Yes it is funny how the simple way is not the way that is being done with this legislation. I believe this new 'sign' bill is longer word wise and than my home state's (AR) misdemeanor carrying a weapon law. I find that kind of funny. I believe the TN sign bill might be longer than TN's misdemeanor 'intent to go armed' law too....but don't quote me on that because I haven't lived here very long. It defies logic to spend more time/effort/space in the penal code on a law that applies to the law abiding permit holders than law that applies to non permit holders.

[Guest HexHead]

All things considered, I'd rather us have the House bill with Tidwell's amendment than the Senate bill with the signage amendments.

As for "vagueness", how difficult is it for a "restaurant" owner to look at his gross annual sales for last year, or as long as he's been open for less than a year, and determine if the majority of his sales were from food or alcohol? If he's too stupid to figure it out and doesn't post, how does that put the onus on the HCP holder? Can't these mother****ers that own bars take any responsibility for anything?

[Guest 270win]

This is Arkansas' solution to dealing with people carrying handguns and who commit alcohol related offenses at the same time. I had to learn this in my class concealed handgun licensing class:

"The director shall revoke the license of any licensee who has pleaded guilty

or nolo contendere to or been found guilty of an alcohol-related offense

committed while carrying a handgun."

There is no law in Arkansas that flat out prohibits drinking and carrying a handgun, so the state did that for folks. I don't even know of a law that makes it illegal to be drunk in possession..like in TN. There is no law that prohibits off duty police from drinking and carrying like in TN. If you are charged with public intox, DWI, public drinking, etc...and carrying a handgun on a license...the arresting officer can take your license and send it to AR State Police for suspension and revocation process. You can reapply after 2 years for a new concealed handgun license.

I believe this is the much more simple approach than the way TN is doing it....I mean can someone get in trouble for taking communion at church while carrying? Is a church open to the public?

[Guest HexHead]

I mean can someone get in trouble for taking communion at church while carrying? Is a church open to the public?

Church carry is fine here as long as it's not posted.

[ngoeser59]

YouTube - Murder witness turns gun advocate

Guns and bars should mix, widow says | Nashville City Paper: Nashville's Online Source for Daily News

(I did NOT say Guns & Bars SHOULD mix) I love it when they come up with their own "shock" headline. They also did not explain the posting provision which I spelled out for them. Oh well, I tried.

Edited May 3, 2010 by ngoeser59

[dralarms]

I just moved back here to Tn. from Florida in Jan , In Florida they only post gov. bld. and Hosp. all the Restaurants you can carry in at first in 1997 when Fl started issuing permits some restaurants tried to post especially in the big theme park arias . and Mr. Mouse posted and got away with it for their fireworks storage , go figure . and in all those years there has never been a drunken shoot outs. I drove through Ga., S.C. , N.C. and stopped at allot of chain restaurants and never saw a posting. but then too those states know the difference in a " Beer Joint ( Dive ) and a restaurant that serves drinks.

Don't know about SC, but NC carry is banned in resturants, banks, and a bunch of other stupid places.

[Guest 270win]

I was referring to this bill making consumption of any alcohol in a place open to the public a crime when carrying.....as in taking communion at church...would that be a crime because some churches do use wine? I know kind of a silly question but who knows with this zero tolerance on a drop of alcohol in a place open to the public....I don't know if a church is open to the public because it has 'members'.

[Guest Ravendove]

I must have been under a rock for a while because this is the first I'm hearing of the legislation coming back up. I'm excited, although I haven't had the time to really look at what's going on yet.

I have to ask, though, as happy as I am that this is happening, am I the only one that thinks the suspension of a permit for three years if charged with intoxication while armed is a little soft? And if I'm misreading something, I apologize, my day to day schedule has had me a little strung out. If I have the meaning of the legislation right, I just don't see how there's any excuse.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

I must have been under a rock for a while because this is the first I'm hearing of the legislation coming back up. I'm excited, although I haven't had the time to really look at what's going on yet.

I have to ask, though, as happy as I am that this is happening, am I the only one that thinks the suspension of a permit for three years if charged with intoxication while armed is a little soft? And if I'm misreading something, I apologize, my day to day schedule has had me a little strung out. If I have the meaning of the legislation right, I just don't see how there's any excuse.

It all depends - what are the penalties for being intoxicated and having a firearm for those who DON'T have an HCP?

[Guest jmac]

I was referring to this bill making consumption of any alcohol in a place open to the public a crime when carrying.....as in taking communion at church... would that be a crime because some churches do use wine? I know kind of a silly question but who knows with this zero tolerance on a drop of alcohol in a place open to the public....I don't know if a church is open to the public because it has 'members'.

Those that believe in transubstantiation would be in the clear

[GKar]

I was referring to this bill making consumption of any alcohol in a place open to the public a crime when carrying.....as in taking communion at church...would that be a crime because some churches do use wine? I know kind of a silly question but who knows with this zero tolerance on a drop of alcohol in a place open to the public....I don't know if a church is open to the public because it has 'members'.

Would defer to the legal experts on this, but given the actual wording of the statute, I'm guessing that the phrase "establishment open to the public where...alcoholic beverages are...served for consumption on the premises" may have a particular meaning within the framework of the regulations that would be widely recognized by the courts and preclude your concern.

[Oh Shoot]

It all depends - what are the penalties for being intoxicated and having a firearm for those who DON'T have an HCP?

Right now, same.

Class A misdemeanor for either person.

'Course, the non HCP holder could also face illegal weapon carry, a separate charge, which can be Class A,B, or C 'meaner, depending on circumstance.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Those that believe in transubstantiation would be in the clear

- OS

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Right now, same.

Class A misdemeanor for either person.

'Course, the non HCP holder could also face illegal weapon carry, a separate charge, which can be Class A,B, or C 'meaner, depending on circumstance.

- OS

Exactly, so why should the penalties for an HCP holder be raised to a higher level than the non-HCP holder?

[Oh Shoot]

Exactly, so why should the penalties for an HCP holder be raised to a higher level than the non-HCP holder?

I'm sure a feel-good-do-gooder-cop-out legislator would say that's because a HCP holder is held to a higher level of responsibility than a gangsta.

- OS

[Guest Ravendove]

It all depends - what are the penalties for being intoxicated and having a firearm for those who DON'T have an HCP?

I don't know why I hadn't thought about that but I agree with you that permit holders shouldn't be the only ones held accountable. Actually, I'm having a surprisingly difficult time finding legislation on that.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't know why I hadn't thought about that but I agree with you that permit holders shouldn't be the only ones held accountable. Actually, I'm having a surprisingly difficult time finding legislation on that.

?? TCA for carrying under the influence?

Michie's Legal Resources

- OS