Restaurant Carry Bill

[Guest Jamie]

So in effect, Razorback, you're paying a $500 to $1000 fine every time you have to go to court, no?

J.

[Fallguy]

If I couldn't take care of the situation at the time and actually ended up charged with a violation of 39-17-1359 I never meant to imply I would just rollover and pay the fine.

I just meant that if after the best efforts of me and/or my attorney I was still found guilty, I would pay the fine and not loose a lot of sleep over the ordeal.

[Guest 270win]

Jamie,

I would hope that a lawyer could get the charges dropped VS a guilty plea...even over a Class B misdmeanor. They are pretty good at dealing with minor things like that or working something out when you have a clean criminal/driving record.

I still think, in the real world, no one is going to have problems because we all conceal in public and are level headed. Being cool headed goes a long ways when accidently walking past a sign.

[Guest HexHead]

Without quoting several who have wondered if an effort to quell non-compliance with carrying past signs might entail more than the $500 fine as things progress, let's not forget something:

There is a catch-all in the reasons you can have HCP terminated.

Yep, it's the old "poses a material risk to safety of public" or however it's exactly worded.

And it's the reason I was in the minority about Kwik's permit getting pulled, as they did on this basis, and he broke NO laws. All it takes in TNDOS deciding it. A simple letter from police to them was justification enough.

But anyone convicted of carrying past a sign has indeed done more than Kwik did in one major way, YOU BROKE A TN HANDGUN CARRY LAW. And without debating again the extreme nature of Kwik's behavior, the simple fact remains, he was declared to "pose that risk" while exactly obeying existing statutes, something someone carrying past a sign can NOT claim.

- OS

Don't you just love irony?

[Mike.357]

I just meant that if after the best efforts of me and/or my attorney I was still found guilty, I would pay the fine and not loose a lot of sleep over the ordeal.

You might not lose much sleep but you may lose a pocket full of money.

Back when I was bagged for a (false) gun charge I got an attorney who gave me a friends and family discount and it still cost me 2500 beans.

If I had no connection to the lawyer I would have been sacked for 5000 dollars to have it handled.

maybe you all are rich, seems a lot of people here are, but 5K is a assload of cash to me.

[Fallguy]

You might not lose much sleep but you may lose a pocket full of money.

Back when I was bagged for a (false) gun charge I got an attorney who gave me a friends and family discount and it still cost me 2500 beans.

If I had no connection to the lawyer I would have been sacked for 5000 dollars to have it handled.

maybe you all are rich, seems a lot of people here are, but 5K is a assload of cash to me.

Nope...not rich at all. If I talk to an attorney and he says it could run that much I will not hire him. I mean it would be ridiculous to pay over $1000 to get out of a $500 fine.

IMO this is only about a half-a-notch above a traffic ticket and in all honesty could be handled by yourself, but if you feel the need for an attorney there is no reason to get a Johnny Cochran wannabe.

[Guest 270win]

WOW 5,000 for a gun charge? Was this just for a misdemeanor 'intent to go armed'? I know 'intent to go armed' is just a Class C Misdemeanor in TN if it is just loaded in the car A misdemeanor in public. That is about on par what I've known people in Arkansas pay to deal with DWI's...and those can be a real pain to deal with.

Traffic violations usually are cheaper than that...like speeding..if you want someone to go plea bargain/deal for you with the prosecutor.

Timewise it should not take a lawyer very long to deal with a simple B misdemeanor but say pay a fine to the town but on paper get it dismissed/dropped...i don't know how you would get up into the thousands. Usually these towns just want their money and will work with you on keeping your driving or minor criminal record clear.

Edited May 8, 2010 by 270win

[JAB]

You might not lose much sleep but you may lose a pocket full of money.

Back when I was bagged for a (false) gun charge I got an attorney who gave me a friends and family discount and it still cost me 2500 beans.

If I had no connection to the lawyer I would have been sacked for 5000 dollars to have it handled.

maybe you all are rich, seems a lot of people here are, but 5K is a assload of cash to me.

Hell, I ain't too proud to admit that $500 is an assload of cash to me - especially just to give the state for no good reason. I predict that there will be enough places that don't post that it won't be worth it for me to routinely carry into places that do. If businesses post, whether they "mean" it or not, screw 'em. I can't think of a single business that is worth $500 to me just to go there.

Edited May 8, 2010 by JAB

[Guest Jamie]

Jamie,

I would hope that a lawyer could get the charges dropped VS a guilty plea...even over a Class B misdmeanor. They are pretty good at dealing with minor things like that or working something out when you have a clean criminal/driving record.

But you still end up paying the lawyer.

So even if the lawyer gets the charges dropped, you're probably going to spend about the same... maybe more... but end up giving it to a different person/agency.

So from where I'm sitting, you still lose, no matter the outcome. :-\

J.

[Guest nashvegas]

Back when I was bagged for a (false) gun charge I got an attorney who gave me a friends and family discount and it still cost me 2500 beans.

If I had no connection to the lawyer I would have been sacked for 5000 dollars to have it handled.

Sounds like that attorney enjoys screwing friends and family...

[Guest Jamie]

The last attorney I had to pay charged $125 an hour, on top of the $1000 retainer.

It basically ended up costing another $1000 every trip into the courtroom, when all was said and done.

( This was for a civil matter, not a criminal one. )

So for me, simply paying a $500 fine seems like a much cheaper proposition, if that's all there is to it.

J.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Keep it outta sight and if you slip up and someone happens to see it... then scadattle and you wont have a problem.

[analog_kidd]

Keep an extra $20 or $50 in your wallet. If someone spots you, drop the bill on the table to pay for the meal and get out. I think someone else on here said if you make it to the parking lot before the cops show up, they have no proof.

[Guest 270win]

HA...yeah an extra bit of cash is a good idea to just cover the meal and head on out to the vehicle and cut out! I have some buddies that probably wouldn't pay...but I wouldn't treat a poor waitress like that.

Concealing has avoided any problems so far in my life and should in the future.

Only the city/county wins when you have to pay for a fine! It stinks...but hey it's not the end of the world....I haven't lost sleep over speeding...but it has lightened my pocket over the years!

[JAB]

Keep an extra $20 or $50 in your wallet. If someone spots you, drop the bill on the table to pay for the meal and get out. I think someone else on here said if you make it to the parking lot before the cops show up, they have no proof.

Not a bad idea.

Or simply eat in restaurants that don't tell us they don't want our business by posting a stupid sign saying we aren't welcome. Yeah, I know that may not always be possible but, given the number of restaurants that didn't post last year, it should be possible most of the time.

[Cowtown]

Concealed is concealed. A .380 in a zero print pocket holster will never, ever be seen.

[Bigiron]

My simple rule: You don't trust me with my gun, I don't trust you with my food.

[Mike.357]

In my case I had originally spoken to an attorney on another board. He had no monetary interest in my case. I was advised by him to have it taken care of properly.

Thats what i did. Money well spent.

The guy from the other board used Lautenberg laws as the reason. You never know if or when a law will be passed that punishes you for something done in the past. IE: pay the fine and move on. Then one day a law gets passed that inhibits your rights because of the past problem.

Anyway thats why I followed through in the manner I did.

[Guest Phantom6]

Sounds like that attorney enjoys screwing friends and family...

I'm not an attorney nor did I spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express last night but I'd say that a good, competent attorney that gets you off of a bogus gun charge with no conviction to be added to your sheet is worth a lot more than $2500. I discount to TGO members in our shop but I don't give the stuff away.

My wife and I have an attorney doing some work for us right now that is charging us more than a piddley $2500 but considering what we are fighting for it's money well spent as we are gaining good ground in getting what we are looking for. The English jurist and philosopher, Jeremy Bentham once said "The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law." I don't mind paying for power I need to settle things in my favor.

Hope you don't ever need a lawyer for anything. Sounds like you may be so tight that you'll take the DIY route. There is a reason for the old English proverb that says "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client."

[Guest nashvegas]

I'm not an attorney nor did I spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express last night but I'd say that a good, competent attorney that gets you off of a bogus gun charge with no conviction to be added to your sheet is worth a lot more than $2500.

I must agree 100%.

My wife and I have an attorney doing some work for us right now that is charging us more than a piddley $2500 but considering what we are fighting for it's money well spent as we are gaining good ground in getting what we are looking for. The English jurist and philosopher, Jeremy Bentham once said "The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law." I don't mind paying for power I need to settle things in my favor.

I hope whatever you are fighting for goes in your favor.

Hope you don't ever need a lawyer for anything. Sounds like you may be so tight that you'll take the DIY route. There is a reason for the old English proverb that says "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client."

That is an excellent quote, and holds true to other facets of life. When you need a professional, hire a professional.

I am fortunate in that I have a friend that happens to be a bad a** attorney. He has taken care of several legal matters for my family, and though repeatedly asked, refuses to charge me. He does however accept the very nice cases of wine I send him. Anytime he needs anything from me, I will be there.

Without knowing the amount of work Mike's attorney did, I must say my comment was unfounded, and apologize to Mike if he has taken any offense.

[Mike.357]

no offense taken Nashvegas and thanks for the support Phantom

[GKar]

Saw a bit of different info this morning: Gov. Bredesen will be leaving May 14 (Fri) for China, leading a Tennessee delegation at the Shanghai Exposition. Scheduled return is May 22. Can he take actions such as signing a veto while "out-of-the-office" on such an excursion, or would he have to do so prior to his departure? The latter would seem to be a good thing...

[Guest HexHead]

End of the 10 days is the 18th. Gives him great political cover, he left it on his desk and it becomes law while he was out of the country on State business.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

I still don't understand what business a State governor has going to China for anything, but I guess that just shows my lack of understanding of all things government. That being said, if Bredesen wants to trip off to China and leave this bill on his desk to become law I am find with that.

[NextExit]

Probably looking to see if the Chinese would like to invest in TN...

But yes, let him go over there and leave the bill on his desk.