Restaurant Carry Bill

[Fallguy]

I'm surprised that we didn't hear from Naifeh or did I miss him somehow?

Guess he assumed his stance is well noted.....and it is...

International sign description states:

"The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle;"

If the item is a semi-auto, just carry a revolver in.

Or vice versa.

- OS

I could be wrong, but I just don't think that argument would stand...

A judge could very well say the item is a "handgun" therefore banning semi and revolvers alike, not just one or the other.

[Oh Shoot]

..But even if you are charged...the fine is "up to" $500...doesn't mean it has to be that much...or anything actually.

"Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)."

Did the wording change?

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

...

I could be wrong, but I just don't think that argument would stand...

A judge could very well say the item is a "handgun" therefore banning semi and revolvers alike, not just one or the other.

I forgot the smiley.

- OS

[-boatman-]

I know a lot of you don't like this bill and I know it could be better. Whatever you think of it you have to give Todd credit. He put up with a lot to get this bill passed. If you have watched all the house sessions on this bill you know what I mean. Some of them tried every way they could to kill this bill way before today's vote but he hung tough. Even though it could be better maybe it was the best he could do and still get it passed and I think he deserves our thanks. Maybe it will work out ok for us.

[Guest HexHead]

so someone save me the effort.

Does this bill include the gunbusters sign?

Yes, Mike. It allows us to carry anywhere that serves alcohol as long as they aren't posted, but makes it very easy and convenient for them to do so.

Also makes the international NO symbol a legal posting everywhere, not just restaurants.

[pegasusrider]

Does this new langauge take away the right of the property owner and employees to carry since there is no exclusion for them if they post?

[Guest HexHead]

The bill would allow the "Circle and Slash" symbol alone to be a legal posting anywhere. However it would still have to be "plainly visible" and at all entrances.

Now I have to wonder this? Let's say some place has the front door that's the main entrance posted, but you slip in the side door that they don't have posted. Are you in violation of the law?

[Guest HexHead]

Here is the way they voted.

I'm surprised that we didn't hear from Naifeh or did I miss him somehow?

He's in the No column, between Miller and Odum.

[Guest HexHead]

I could be wrong, but I just don't think that argument would stand...

A judge could very well say the item is a "handgun" therefore banning semi and revolvers alike, not just one or the other.

Hell, they'd probably throw on an additional contempt charge for insulting their intelligence with that argument.

[Guest Tucker13]

Bredesen will wait 9 days then sign it. He knows the over ride votes are there.

[eapking]

You mean he's not going to do another photo-op with all the d-bag police chiefs from around the state? I almost wish he would so he gets another "facial package" override.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Thanks for all the updates and play by play friends. I had to drop offline at 4pm and couldn't get back until now to catch up. I am sorely disappointed that I missed Hardaway's insightful comments. Hopefully, in about 12-15 days I can finally go eat a burger at Pawbowsky's and not have to disarm.

[Guest HexHead]

You mean he's not going to do another photo-op with all the d-bag police chiefs from around the state? I almost wish he would so he gets another "facial package" override.

BTW, did I miss it? Is Surpas leaving?

[Fallguy]

Are there enough votes to override Breseden's forthcoming veto?

It only takes a simply majority in TN to over a veto. So unless a whole bunch changed their mind...Yes, there is more than enough to override a veto.

"Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)."

Did the wording change?

- OS

Hmmmm...I think you're right. A judge might not have a choice if you are found guilty.

I forgot the smiley.

- OS

Got ya.

I know a lot of you don't like this bill and I know it could be better. Whatever you think of it you have to give Todd credit. He put up with a lot to get this bill passed. If you have watched all the house sessions on this bill you know what I mean. Some of them tried every way they could to kill this bill way before today's vote but he hung tough. Even though it could be better maybe it was the best he could do and still get it passed and I think he deserves our thanks. Maybe it will work out ok for us.

Agree!

Does this new langauge take away the right of the property owner and employees to carry since there is no exclusion for them if they post?

No..A property owner always has the right to carry on his property without a HCP. As far as employess, I admit I'm not 100% sure. Maybe the owner will pay for the HCPs

Now I have to wonder this? Let's say some place has the front door that's the main entrance posted, but you slip in the side door that they don't have posted. Are you in violation of the law?

Assuming the side door is commonly used for public entrance...then IMO No, you would not be in violation since you were not given proper notice.

Bredesen will wait 9 days then sign it. He knows the over ride votes are there.

I really doubt he signs it...at the best he let it become law without his signature.

[VolunteerGuns]

Anyone have any idea when "This act shall take effect the public welfare requiring it?"

Is it instantanious (upon signature of Shredison, veto override, etc.) or does it have a future date?

[Fallguy]

Anyone have any idea when "This act shall take effect the public welfare requiring it?"

Is it instantanious (upon signature of Shredison, veto override, etc.) or does it have a future date?

Either...

The moment he signs it...,

After it sits on his desk for 10 days (excluding Sundays) or

Or after a veto is overridden by both chambers of the General Assembly

[Guest HexHead]

When will Bredesen get this bill?

Well, consider the source, but according to the Nashville City Paper...

A wide open guns-in-bars bill cleared the state House Wednesday and went to the governor’s desk, allowing Tennessee’s 270,000 handgun-carry permit holders to take their weapons into honky-tonks, nightclubs and any place else that serves booze.

[Guest TNReb]

I agree 99 times out of 100 you are probably just going to be asked to leave instead of charged.

But even if you are charged...the fine is "up to" $500...doesn't mean it has to be that much...or anything actually.

Actually the bill says only by fine of $500, not "up to." If convicted, that is the only punishment--no discretion. And I won't have to be asked to leave. If they post, I won't go in, except, unarmed, of course, to let them know why.

[Guest HexHead]

So now that the unadorned international symbol or the properly worded sign with the substantially similar signs are now legal, what about the ones that just say "no guns", "no firearms" or "no weapons" that some places will inevitably put up?

[Guest TNReb]

Well, consider the source, but according to the Nashville City Paper...

Like you said, consider the source. What he should have said was that the law is heading to the governor's desk, not that it went to it. Just more great journalism. In the words of the immortal Buford T. Justice, "What is da world comin' to?"

[GKar]

In that those signs don't have (any of) the three essential elements listed in the bill, they aren't properly posted, so it would appear that the prohibitions listed would not apply, nor the criminal penalties described in the bill.

[Guest TNReb]

So now that the unadorned international symbol or the properly worded sign with the substantially similar signs are now legal, what about the ones that just say "no guns", "no firearms" or "no weapons" that some places will inevitably put up?

Well, the law says that it has to be the international symbol, the statutory language, or both. I think that a simple "No guns" sign, or a cutie like the one Rayburn has on his places (No Guns Ever--Free Parking Always), would not be proper posting. Not that I would ever set foot in one of his places anyway.

[VolunteerGuns]

Legal...

Legal...

All legal postings!

The sign can be written in Arabic with a hand drawn kindergarten circle/slash and... BINGO... its legal!

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

That article in the Nashville City Paper is about what I expected to read, but since I missed the house floor debate today I had not heard Finchers rebuttal. This is some good stuff and I applaud him for it:

"But Rep. Henry Fincher, D-Cookeville, said he favored the bill not because of NRA pressure but because he believes the state’s licensed gun carriers can be trusted to go armed into bars and will actually make them safer places.

“We have made a choice in this state to trust our handgun-carry permit holders,†Fincher said. “When we draw imaginary lines in the ground and say we trust you here but we don’t trust you there, we are doing nothing but creating a pleasing fiction. Gun-free zones are a pleasing fiction, Mr. Speaker. Columbine High School was a gun-free zone.

Killers don’t care about these imaginary lines.â€

Wide open guns-in-bars bill headed to governor

[Fallguy]

Actually the bill says only by fine of $500, not "up to." If convicted, that is the only punishment--no discretion. And I won't have to be asked to leave. If they post, I won't go in, except, unarmed, of course, to let them know why.

Yep, see post 664

Well, the law says that it has to be the international symbol, the statutory language, or both. I think that a simple "No guns" sign, or a cutie like the one Rayburn has on his places (No Guns Ever--Free Parking Always), would not be proper posting. Not that I would ever set foot in one of his places anyway.

Agree...however all Rayburn would have to do to make his sign legal is add the international symbol.