Restaurant Carry Bill

[ttocswob]

My letter to Mae Beavers:

I am stunned to find the following added to your bill via amendment:

“C) A building, property or a portion of a building or

property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with

this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in

prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by

persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property

or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i) The international circle and slash symbolizing

the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision”

Is this a “poison pill” – similar to the 50% language in HB 3125 - intended to prohibit all restaurant carry, or will HCP holders be banned by any circle/slash sign?

If the circle/slash portrays a revolver, will I be allowed to carry a semi-auto pistol, or vice-versa? Isn’t this unconstitutionally vague just like last years bill?

Please pass a clean bill which does not restrict our second amendment right to keep and bear arms.

(name & address)

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

WRONG!

Whachoo talking 'bout, Willis? The "BEST" option is HB 2694. That's the one we need to support, not this HB 3125 POS.

And I agree with you completely but from what I can see, there is little chance of HB2694 getting passed. In addition, assuming we made an all out push (and it worked) to get HB3125 defeated as to make room for 2694 to move ahead, there is absolutely no guarantee that 2694 would make it into law. Of course, there are never any guarantees with these things, even AFTER they become law like we saw last year.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

ttocswob - Excellent and direct to the point letter to Mae Beavers. I would love to know her reply. She has historically been very strong on the side of HCP holders as far as I know.

[RobertNashville]

Gentlemen (and gentle ladies),

It is not my intention to rain on the parade here but I would suggest that the likelihood of getting any bill out of the legislature, to the governor, vetoed by the governor (which he certainly do and taking the full 10 business days to do it) and getting an override vote done before the sessions ends for the year is about as likely as BHO to admit that he really isn't an American citizen.

Even if by some miracle we get something into law this year, the bill with the best chance of getting through is so muddy that it will likely be overturned just like the last one was and for the same flimsy reason.

We are likely going to have to wait until next year for meaningful legislation; after we get a (likely) Republican Governor who probably wont' veto these bills, get a few more decent pro-gun rights conservatives in place in the house AND get a real speaker rather than the idiot Williams we are currently stuck with we'll likely see some real pro-gun legislation coming out of the legislature...Speaker Williams is as much to blame for the lack of progress this year as anyone.

Edited April 22, 2010 by RobertNashville

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Robert - I understand your point of view and for the most part I agree. However I refuse to give in to defeat and just sit around and do nothing. Granted, there isn't much I can do other than to contact my representatives with my concerns but I have done that and I will continue to communicate with them until the legislation either gets passed or doesn't.

This restaurant carry issue goes beyond the narrow scope of me being able to carry while eating a burger at Chili's. The issue at heart is the Rayburn types that can seemingly control our legislation with a few good ole' boy phone calls and back room deals. I refuse to allow people like that to 'run' our state and dictate when and where I can have the option to legally defend myself.

[RobertNashville]

I don't disagree nor did I want to imply that we "stop trying" to get something through...just giving my "take" on the likely outcome for this session.

Yes; guys like Rayburn need to pay a price (hopefully tens of thousands of dollars in lost business) for their actions and back-room deals. Frankly, what frosts me most about him and those like him is his cowardice in not just being willing to post his properties - I have no stomach (and no money to give to) those who want my business but want to deny me the basic right to protect myself but don't' have the guts to say so.

[Guest 270win]

Neither of the bills as amended in either chamber are worth a flip. Both are undesirable and, in my opinion, move people back two steps back. They make the gun laws even more complicated for us who try to stay legal and can still get us fined....pathetic when we have to get a permit to carry in public or get fined. I should not be treated like a criminal and be fined when I already have a permit. I guess I should be glad for the Constitution that protects me from search and seizure and concealing to hopefully avoid problems with the stupid fines in this state over a sign or a place that may sell a little beer in a cooler.

[Guest HexHead]

And I agree with you completely but from what I can see, there is little chance of HB2694 getting passed. In addition, assuming we made an all out push (and it worked) to get HB3125 defeated as to make room for 2694 to move ahead, there is absolutely no guarantee that 2694 would make it into law. Of course, there are never any guarantees with these things, even AFTER they become law like we saw last year.

Mark my words, we'll be better off in the long run with NO bill than 3125 with the Senate amendment. That circle/ slash crap will apply to ALL businesses, not just restaurants. Businesses that didn't want a full blown sign will likely be easily persuaded by the Chamber of Commerce, or the Hospitality Assn. to just put the little circle/slash/gun sign right next to the little circle/slash/ cigarette sign they currently have and not think anything about it. There won't be any warning for us or more importantly CCW carriers from other states that it's a lawful sign and that it implies a criminal act and a $500 fine. We'll end up being able to carry in a lot less places than just restaurants that serve alcohol or for that matter than where we can carry now.

This is worse for us than letting Voldemort on the loose again.

Edited April 22, 2010 by HexHead

[Worriedman]

[GKar]

Check this out:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA1281.pdf

Also, look at the 7 fiscal notes now posted for various amendments to the House bill...interesting reading.

The consideration of 3125 by House Calendar has now been deferred to 4/27.

[Fallguy]

Check this out:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA1281.pdf

Also, look at the 7 fiscal notes now posted for various amendments to the House bill...interesting reading.

The consideration of 3125 by House Calendar has now been deferred to 4/27.

Wow....3 years huh. The funny thing is, the same offense commited by a non-HCP holder wouldn't prevent him from getting one as soon as he could...

[Guest HexHead]

Wow....3 years huh. The funny thing is, the same offense commited by a non-HCP holder wouldn't prevent him from getting one as soon as he could...

Wasn't it just one year in the original bill? HB 3125 just keeps getting worse and worse. It needs to be defeated. This bill is becoming an anti gunner's paradise.

[RobertNashville]

Mark my words, we'll be better off in the long run with NO bill than 3125 with the Senate amendment. That circle/ slash crap will apply to ALL businesses, not just restaurants. Businesses that didn't want a full blown sign will likely be easily persuaded by the Chamber of Commerce, or the Hospitality Assn. to just put the little circle/slash/gun sign right next to the little circle/slash/ cigarette sign they currently have and not think anything about it. There won't be any warning for us or more importantly CCW carriers from other states that it's a lawful sign and that it implies a criminal act and a $500 fine. We'll end up being able to carry in a lot less places than just restaurants that serve alcohol or for that matter than where we can carry now.

This is worse for us than letting Voldemort on the loose again.

Personally (and I know I'll probably catch a lot of flack for this statement), I don't have a problem with any business posting their business to ban firearms. No "right" is truly a right if it gets to trample the rights of another...an entity (person, business, etc) also has rights including the right to tell me what I can and cannot do on/in their property/business which includes whether I can carry my legally possessed/carried firearm.

What makes me angry enough to see red are those cowards who want the state to effectively "post" for them so that they don't have to say where they stand on the issue (does anyone come to mind?).

An business that posts (circle with a slash though it or any other method) is automatically telling me that they don't want my business and that they don't care enough about their customers to let them be able to protect themselves so I just move on to the next business that does want my money.

I do agree with your original assessment - what we might get out of the legislature this session might truly be worse than doing nothing at all and simply waiting until we have a legislature and a governor who doesn't have their heads up their respective asses.

[Guest HexHead]

An business that posts (circle with a slash though it or any other method) is automatically telling me that they don't want my business and that they don't care enough about their customers to let them be able to protect themselves so I just move on to the next business that does want my money.

If the business owner feels strongly enough about the issue that he goes out of his way to post a sign, then I agree with you and don't really have an issue with that. I'm talking about the great majority that haven't really given it much thought, if any at all, and are approached by the anti-gun groups around town like the Chamber of Commerce, TN Hospitality Assoc. or the Restaurant Assoc, and fed a pack of lies to let them put this sticker on the door, just like the "no smoking" one they already have "so they won't have to worry about anything". We're very likely to end up with a lot less places we can carry than we can now if this amendment survives and 3125 is put into place.

I can live with the House amendment that truly turns 3125 back into a "guns in restaurants" bill, even though there is potential for it to end up in front of Bonneyman again, but this signage amendment is fraught with potential pitfalls.

I've emailed the NRA-ILA and hopefully they'll put some pressure on supporting HB 2694 instead of HB 3125. You other members should do the same.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

hey guys unless im missing something huge HB2694 has no amendments, its been ready for a vote in the house for almost a month and its keeps getting postponed in the senate Judiciary Committee until Tuesday of next week... It takes care of the problem, and can pass the house... veto im not sure about but im very optimistic. IMHO, unless John Harris tells me otherwise thats the bill we need to support.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

Glockmeister - I agree, but my understanding based on watching various legislative video's on that bill (HB2694) is that the sponsor is 'holding' that bill to see what happens with the other one first. In my emails to my reps, I have encouraged them to try and get HB2694 passed rather than the other one, but if I am right and the sponsor is delaying it, then what can we actually do?

[RobertNashville]

hey guys unless im missing something huge HB2694 has no amendments, its been ready for a vote in the house for almost a month and its keeps getting postponed in the senate Judiciary Committee until Tuesday of next week... It takes care of the problem, and can pass the house... veto im not sure about but im very optimistic. IMHO, unless John Harris tells me otherwise thats the bill we need to support.

I think you are correct...the problem is what I voiced above; that being timing.

By the time any bill gets voted on, sent to the governor and vetoed there simply won't be time to get in an override vote before the session is over and there is no way in he** that the legislature will come back into session this year because they are all chomping at the bit to get out there and campaign and raise money for their campaigns.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

you guys are right, ive been tod too forget about 2694 for now....it seems HB3125 is our only hope... I just feel like im making a deal with the devil or at least the dark side of the force(jedi lengo)...

[Guest HexHead]

you guys are right, ive been tod too forget about 2694 for now....it seems HB3125 is our only hope... I just feel like im making a deal with the devil or at least the dark side of the force(jedi lengo)...

Then we need to do everything we can to see that HB 3125 is defeated as long as it contains the Senate amendment. Or get the Senate to accept the House version of the bill.

Good luck with that now that Doug Jackson has shown his willingness to throw us under the bus by voting to adopt the Senate bill with the amendment.

[Guest HexHead]

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again, anyone heard of what's happening with the AG's appeal of the Bonneyman decision? Is it even scheduled?

I said last November that IT was going to be our best shot at being able to carry in restaurants again, but was shouted down with "don't worry, Sen. Jackson says this will get fixed quickly once the Legislature is back in session in January."

To quote Edward G Robinson as Dathan in the movie The Ten Commandments....

"Where's your Moses now?"

[GKar]

AG Cooper is getting to it on the timetable he feels most appropriate...he actually would make a good Dothan...

[Worriedman]

The only chance we have in getting something decent out of the Legislature on this issue this year, is to get a great conference committee to strip the amendments. Lt. Gov. Ramsey will appoint good people out of the Senate, the House will be problematic.

[mcurrier]

Then we need to do everything we can to see that HB 3125 is defeated as long as it contains the Senate amendment. Or get the Senate to accept the House version of the bill.

Good luck with that now that Doug Jackson has shown his willingness to throw us under the bus by voting to adopt the Senate bill with the amendment.

Then perhaps we need to get them to...what's the word...'reconciliation'...

Then they can just "deem" the House version to have already passed and we're good to go. That's how they do it in the big leagues...isn't it?

[Guest HexHead]

The only chance we have in getting something decent out of the Legislature on this issue this year, is to get a great conference committee to strip the amendments. Lt. Gov. Ramsey will appoint good people out of the Senate, the House will be problematic.

Who are these "good people" you speak of? Mae Beavers was thought to support the 2nd amendment and be pro-carry, but she authored and sponsored this horrid amendment. Doug Jackson was thought to be on our side, and he voted to approve the bill with the amendment.

[Steelharp]

"Where's your Moses now?"

Different board.