Only (Peaceful) Way to Win Back Freedom

[Oh Shoot]

Ya know, after being brought to bear on some of my jaded comments on the tyranny that our hopeless two party political system has become, and explaining my feelings there, I've thought long and hard for one positive sweeping change that could be made, short of a second revolution, that could make the biggest difference, and it is, simply:

ABOLISH THE IRS in favor of an anonymous consumption based taxation system. The Fair Tax is of course the best known plan, and by all accounts, would work fine, and put more money in the federal coffer than ever, even during lean times like now.

The prime advantage is, of course, that an anonymous consumption tax frees the individual (and business) from THE primary control used by the federal government. It would effectively negate most every onerous law passed since The New Deal on, while still allowing the government to have plenty of money to waste (nature of government expenditures would still have to be corrected with separate efforts).

Ideologically, there is no reason why BOTH the Dems and the GOP couldn't support this, except of course that they both WANT this type of control to continue, even though both would claim the opposite.

So maybe this should become the rallying cry for the Teabag Party, if indeed they are as many feel the best and last hope to save The Republic.

At any rate, though I am certainly not the first to promote this, I have now offered a positive suggestion to offset all the negativism that I generally radiate in political threads. You're welcome, thank you very much.

Back in character, though, I can say that it will never, EVER, happen as long as our two party system exists. Neither party can be changed, it can now only dilute and corrupt to its own level any effort injected into it to do so.

"The Soviet Union had a single, entrenched, systemically corrupt political party, which held a monopoly on power. The U.S. has two entrenched, systemically corrupt political parties, whose positions are often indistinguishable, and which together hold a monopoly on power. In either case, there is, or was, a single governing elite, but in the United States it organized itself into opposing teams to make its stranglehold on power seem more sportsmanlike."

Dmitry Orlov

Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century

- OS

Edited March 26, 2010 by OhShoot

[gregintenn]

LOL! Have you seen this bill? The IRS is expanding!

[Oh Shoot]

LOL! Have you seen this bill? The IRS is expanding!

I know.

And it's the only way they can control you to obey it, through the IRS.

- OS

[Mark@Sea]

Constitutional Convention called by the several states.

Amendment : The Fair Tax

Amendment: Abolish the commerce clause, give Congress only defense and international relations

Amendment: Term limits for elected and appointed offices.

[Raoul]

Constitutional Convention called by the several states.

Amendment : The Fair Tax

Amendment: Abolish the commerce clause, give Congress only defense and international relations

Amendment: Term limits for elected and appointed offices.

+1. Sounds like a good start.

[gregintenn]

You both have my vote for the office of your choosing. Have you actually seen anybody run for public office with your views?

[RobD]

Constitutional Convention called by the several states.

Amendment : The Fair Tax

Amendment: Abolish the commerce clause, give Congress only defense and international relations

Amendment: Term limits for elected and appointed offices.

I love all execept I would add that if your going to abolsh the commerce clause, change it to "no regulation from the federal government or from the several states" (avoid trade wars between the states).

[RobD]

Oh and I pray that there will be a peacefull resolution to restore our freedoms. I doubt it though.

[Hgunner]

A constitutional covention is a bad idea. The progressives will take it over and

take every last ounce of freedom you have or think you have left. Only when they have been driven from power should a convention be opened to make changes.

Term limits, eliminate the IRS, Federal Reserve Bank, repeal the 17th Amendment

and have Senators appointent by State legislators again (i know....but think about it.

That was a is a very needed check and balance). God help us because we are going to need it in the coming months and years.

[Guest 1817ak47]

Oh and I pray that there will be a peacefull resolution to restore our freedoms. I doubt it though.

keyword peaceful, I agree with the above mentioned

[Hgunner]

The Constitution spelled out how revenue was to be rasied by the Federal Gov, lets

just do that, of course all the social welfare programs and special interest programs will have to go also.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Good try at satire.

You want to destroy our two party system because of

a russian's opinion? The "Teabag party", as you so lovingly

refer to it, doesn't have those aspirations. Abolish the

IRS? Yes, the entity and all the law that authorizes it.

Replace it with some kind of fair consumption tax with

absolute limits. Abolish all gun restriction laws except

for criminals.

Something still makes me think you have already

written this country off. I guess I'll figure it out one

day.

I don't know about the progressives taking over a

Constitutional Convention and remaking things, but

if it ever got that far, they would find thselves in a

serious bloodbath. I hope this 10th movement works.

It's a good start to the fight.

[Oh Shoot]

...

and have Senators appointent by State legislators again (i know....but think about it.

That was a is a very needed check and balance).

Oh, totally agree.

I don't think we should vote for president either, also not called for in the Constitution.

It's become an American Idol contest, mostly bought anyway. Something basically wrong when a man spends a billion dollars to get a 400K/yr job, and we call that "democracy" because we get to vote, and the popular vote doesn't elect him anyway.

- OS

[Hgunner]

I don't think OhShoot or myself has written the country off, however sticking my head in the sand and saying its all going to be ok, doesn't mean it is. And lets face it we've all spent to much time with our heads buried as it is. If nothing else B O ( pronounced Bee Oh) and his communist buddies are waking a lot of people up. I just hope there is a very big backlash against them in November. If you value your freedoms and love your country realise these people are going to have to be crushed at the ballot box or crushed some other way. The only way to win is to defeat them, you can't compromise with them.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't think OhShoot or myself has written the country off, ...

Well, ummm, let's just say I'll not see any significant return to independence in my lifetime, even if I make 100. Unless it's the kind even I might not care to live through ... and I don't thing THAT will happen due to concerted revolution, but more likely through socioeconomic breakdown and anarchy.

I just hope there is a very big backlash against them in November...

And that means Republicans.

Which is why I see no real change in libertarian sense. None at all over time.

sorry,

- OS

[Guest HvyMtl]

Where, in the Constitution, are we limited to 2 parties? This two party system is limited, and does not allow for true political debate, and focuses the power into another artificial layer of government.

Ever wonder why the Governments of Germany and Japan focused on multi-party systems, even though these governments were formed by the US? It was partly to prevent one political party from taking control (which is what we have now) to ensure peace. (Particularly in Germany, one political party took over and wrecked its neighbors...)

Attempting to remove the commerce clause, well...the reaction to those opposed will be to label those for as "racists..." Besides, the Commerce Clause's original intent was to make a uniform monetary system, and limit most commercial treaties to the Federal level. (Beforehand, each state printed its own money, and set commerce treaties at whim. Even limited commerce at the state lines... Imagine the headache of going backwards in this case... having to stop at each state line, pay a toll, pay taxes on items brought in, being searched for items prevented from entering, exchanging one state's money for another, at a rate benefiting the state you were entering... etc.)

The Flat Tax is a great idea. All pay in, say 15% of what they earned,be they billionaires or hundredaires. Remove a ton of bureaucracy, and its expense.

Edited March 26, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Oh Shoot]

...

The Flat Tax is a great idea. All pay in, say 15% of what they earned,be they billionaires or hundredaires. Remove a ton of bureaucracy, and its expense.

Nope.

Flat Tax no good.

Still tied to the individual.

Still controls the individual.

Still have to file taxes.

People cheat.

Still have to have huge IRS.

Fair Tax collected from consumption.

From everyone. Even illegal aliens.

Anonymously.

Good.

- OS

[Worriedman]

I have to agree with OS on the Fair Tax, (did not see that coming, did you).

I give credit where it is due, that would be the best approach.

[railfancwb]

First step to abolishing the IRS and the individual income tax would be to abolish withholding. When the next April 15 arrived and almost everyone had to write a large check to the government...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I have to agree with OS on the Fair Tax, (did not see that coming, did you).

I give credit where it is due, that would be the best approach.

I agree on the consumption based taxation with strict limits

attached to the congress.

That senate thing back in the hands of their states is

another.

Whatever happens, there will be turmoil before things

get turned around. We have got to be united and

resolved to fix our country's problems. When the time

comes(now, really), there won't be room for cynicism.

Things are just going to have to get done. Then,

look back and see what was accomplished, or not.

Several great ideas on here!

No one has got there head in the sand. Didn't mean to infer

that.

[MCSCOTT]

"The Soviet Union had a single, entrenched, systemically corrupt political party, which held a monopoly on power. The U.S. has two entrenched, systemically corrupt political parties, whose positions are often indistinguishable, and which together hold a monopoly on power. In either case, there is, or was, a single governing elite, but in the United States it organized itself into opposing teams to make its stranglehold on power seem more sportsmanlike."

Dmitry Orlov

Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century

- OS

Personally I have to agree with that quote. Each party pretends to represent the people of the country even though in the end neither really do. They argue back and forth on different issues and bills that come up, which in the end only costs us as taxpayers that much more money and we are now at the point where the outcome is going to be the same either way. It's also gotten to the point where in the elections these days all the people have to choose from is bad or worse, doesn't seem to me that we get to choose from good candidates, or even what could possibly be good candidates anymore.

IRS, Fair Tax, either way I don't see any hope of getting things on the right path unless the people can gain back control of our government and what they are blowing all of our tax dollars on. The majority of our tax dollars are either sent to other parts of the world to help rebuild other countries, or on million or billion dollar plans the the people of the country don't want in the first place, or simply for the personal gain of the people in charge. Heck, our tax dollars as we speak are paying a paycheck to people that do nothing but sit around all day and try to find ways of going around our Constitution.

At some point soon, WE are going to have to figure out a way to gain control over government spending, whether it be peaceful or other, or I don't think our country as we know it will last much longer.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Personally I have to agree with that quote. Each party pretends to represent the people of the country even though in the end neither really do. They argue back and forth on different issues and bills that come up, which in the end only costs us as taxpayers that much more money and we are now at the point where the outcome is going to be the same either way. It's also gotten to the point where in the elections these days all the people have to choose from is bad or worse, doesn't seem to me that we get to choose from good candidates, or even what could possibly be good candidates anymore.

IRS, Fair Tax, either way I don't see any hope of getting things on the right path unless the people can gain back control of our government and what they are blowing all of our tax dollars on. The majority of our tax dollars are either sent to other parts of the world to help rebuild other countries, or on million or billion dollar plans the the people of the country don't want in the first place, or simply for the personal gain of the people in charge. Heck, our tax dollars as we speak are paying a paycheck to people that do nothing but sit around all day and try to find ways of going around our Constitution.

At some point soon, WE are going to have to figure out a way to gain control over government spending, whether it be peaceful or other, or I don't think our country as we know it will last much longer.

I don't agree with the quote, but I do with your comment.

[Mike.357]

Fair Tax is the way to go, but I really don't see those in power (and doing all they can to stay iin power) every relinquishing the golden ring.

Politicians salivate over the budgets they get to draw up and constantly come up with new more F'd up ideas to get more of our money, and hence more power.

This health bill is about power, it is not about healing or even helping the welfare generations.

Things in this country are so messed up it can never get back to the way it was intended to be.

[RobD]

Comsumption tax is a much better way to do it, but take it all the way and eliminate all exeptions including non-profits and churches. I would also love to see a constitutional amendment to limit federal government spending increases to something like 2.5% per year or less depending on inflation (never higher but can always go lower) (exemption would be for times of war).

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, they are talking about the use of a VAT, also. There may not be a peaceful resolution to our problems, unless November flushes a majority of the dems et al