North Dakota Concealed Carry Permit Valid for 18YO TN Resident?

[Guest Eliminator55]

I have checked into all the available options for non-resident permits. I am definitely getting a Maine non-resident permit and then a New Hampshire non-resident permit. You have to take the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course, which includes about 8 hours of instruction, to get the Maine permit. Having any concealed carry permit issued by any state or jurisdiction is a pre-requisite to being able to apply for the New Hampshire Permit. Both of the applications are rather short and simple. The New Hampshire application is only 2 pages. I should get my Maine permit within 60 days of applying and my New Hampshire permit within about three weeks of applying. After I have obtained these permits I will be able to carry in about 24 states including most of the southeastern states.

I've also looked into getting a non-resident North Dakota Class 2 Concealed Carry Permit. I am a Tennessee resident who is age 18. North Dakota has a shall-issue policy for both residents and non-residents. North Dakota issues Class 1 & 2 permits. The difference between the two is that a Class 1 permit provides the recipient with better reciprocity. North Dakota issues Class 2 permits to those 18 and older, and will issue either Class 1 or 2 permits to those 21 and older. So, you have to be 21 to obtain a Class 1 permit.

However, several states do provide reciprocity to both classes of permit holders. Tennessee is one of those states. North Dakota issues a grade to each state for their policy on accepting North Dakota Concealed Carry Permits.

Basically, grade A, which is the grade that Tennessee has means that the state has "Full reciprocity, no restrictions or conditions."

Link To North Dakota Reciprocity Guide

Reciprocity with Other States

I know that Tennessee requires it's resident's to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Permit within 6 months of becoming a resident of Tennessee. However, I obviously am unable to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit due to the age requirement of 21.

Tennessee does have a broad policy of accepting all carry permits without restrictions as stated on their site.

Handgun Carry Permit Reciprocity Information

North Dakota does not a have an official reciprocity agreement with Tennessee. However, as I understand it, when the North Dakota concealed carry laws recently changed they sent requests to each state asking whether or not they would honor North Dakota Concealed Carry Permits and if so under what conditions will permits be accepted. After receiving official notification from the states, North Dakota grades each state. So, I'm assuming to receive a grade A, such state must express that they will accept all North Dakota Concealed Carry permits without any restrictions.

Also, make note of #4 and the aforementioned requirement for Tennessee residents to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit.

Taking into account that I'm unable to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit does that render #4 uneffective. It's a contradiction of sorts to say that you accept all permits which includes accepting those who may only be 18 and older and hold another states permit such as North Dakota. If I were a resident of any other state and was only age 18-20 and had a Class 2 North Dakota Concealed Carry Permit, everything I have read and discussed with others points to the complete validity of such permit in Tennessee. It would make no sense for Tennessee to deprive it's residents of a right that is be provided to a recipient of a Class 2 North Dakota Concealed Carry Permit that resides in any one of the other 49 states. This leads me to lean towards the side of the certified instructors that I have spoken with who think that carry under the previously mentioned circumstances is legal. If this is not the case then Tennessee law should definitely be changed to make the acceptance or denial of such permits clear. If Tennessee accepts a Class 2 North Dakota Permit from a non-resident of Tennessee but will not accept that same permit for a resident of Tennessee that has to be one of the most ignorant things that I've come across. After all, Tennessee should issue Handgun Carry Permits to all those who can legally own a handgun. The legal age to own a handgun is age 18. therefore the requirement to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit should be set at age 18 rather than 21.

So, ultimately is a North Dakota Concealed Carry Permit a valid means of carry for an 18 year old Tennessee resident. I will more than likely get the permit either way because it will allow me to carry in neighboring states such as Kentucky?

I have spoken to several of the certified test instructors in North Dakota and they think that carry is legal under these circumstances.

I spoke to the Tennessee Department of Safety and he confirmed that all permits are accepted by those below age 21 as long as the recipient of such permit is not a Tennessee resident or has not been a resident for longer than 6 months. I am insulted that my home state would deny their own residents a right that residents of any other state would be given. So, a resident age 18-20 from any other state with a non-resident North Dakota Class 2 Concealed Carry Permit would be able to legally carry in Tennessee. However, due to a resident simply residing within Tennessee for longer than 6 months that permit becomes invalidated. They said that the issuance date on your license would have to fall within that 6 month period. I'm going to make all the state legislatures aware of the fact that they are discriminating against their own residents and denying them of a right that's given to residents of any other state. The statute requiring Tennessee residents to obtain a Tennessee permit should be repealed or they age should be lowered to age 18. All that's required to get the North Dakota Class 2 Permit is a simple open book test that takes less than a half hour. Tennessee would be much better off lowering the age requirement for a Handgun Carry Permit to age 18. Then instead of having basically no training, the permit holders would have to go through Tennessee training requirements which include about 8 hours of instruction. I don't agree with the need for a permit to conceal carry. However, under the aforementioned circumstances the following changes in law would make the most sense.

I appreciate your input.

THANKS!

Edited April 3, 2010 by Eliminator55

[Oh Shoot]

...

I know that Tennessee requires it's resident's to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Permit within 6 months of becoming a resident of Tennessee.

Why is North Dakota willing to give you a permit?

Do they think you are a ND resident, or do they give out non-resident permits?

At any rate, you have a TN driver's license?

If so, you're a proven TN resident, and I imagine things could get sticky in a hurry if checked, eh?

- OS

[Guest tnfireman]

I am by no means an expert, but from my understanding if you are and going to stay a resident of TN you would be in violation of TN law.

Just my opinion.

[Oh Shoot]

Who was the kid on here, claimed had out of state permit, but was under 21?

He was full of it in general and disappeared after getting called out, but anyway, was supposedly UT student, but was officially a resident of the other state.

At any rate, we couldn't find anything in statutes that said it wouldn't be legal for him to carry here on the recognized permit, even though he was under 21.

BUT, he wasn't a legal resident of TN, and if you are,and have been for 6 months or longer, that would seem to be the legal showstopper for you.

The date on your TN driver's license, if you have one, would of course be the dead giveaway.

- OS

[Guest Eliminator55]

It is completely legal to obtain a non-resident Concealed Carry Permit as a Tennessee Resident at age 18. I know that you can obtain a non-resident permit from atleast both Maine and North Dakota. The Maine permit is easier to get though. You can just mail everything in. You actually have to take the testing in the state of North Dakota for their permit. I've spoken directly to the North Dakota BCI and the County Sheriff's Office who gladly sent me as many applications as I requested and answered any questions I had about the process. North Dakota has no problem issuing non-resident permits to those age 18 and older.

Everything that I've stated in this thread besides my opinion of the legality of carry under the following circumstances is correct.

The law requiring residents of Tennessee to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit should be repealed. Why should I be denied a right simply because I am a resident of Tennessee. That makes absolutely no sense.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Eliminator55

[Oh Shoot]

... I don't know why you would doubt that obtaining a concealed carry permit at age 18, whether such permit is a resident or non-resident permit, is possible.

Who doubted it? I only inquired as to the nature of the permit. Thought maybe you were actually still a ND resident. In which case, you could carry here with their permit. You could be an out of state student at Maryville College for all I know.

The law requiring residents to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit should be repealed. Why should I be denied a right simply because I am a resident of Tennessee. That makes absolutely no sense.

Most of us agree that there should be no carry permit required anywhere in the USA at all.

- OS

[Guest Eliminator55]

From what I read into it, it sounded as though you thought the person you mentioned actually had no permit. The laws concerning concealed carry are way to complicated and of course I agree that carry should be legal throughout the US without a permit.

[Guest tnfireman]

I agree there should not be a requirement of a permit, but there is. As unfair as that may be it is the law.

In your post above you mentioned the County Sheriff, is this the Sheriff in ND or here in TN? If you have discussed this with the Sheriff in your county what did they say about it?

[Oh Shoot]

From what I read into it, it sounded as though you thought the person you mentioned actually had no permit. .

Oh, thought you meant my comments re you.

We assumed he did, it's just that much of the other stuff he ranted about seemed pretty improbable for a person of his age, and he finally really went off the scale, so who knows.

Anyway, we opined on the matter assuming he did have one and the point is that we could find no legal reason why it wouldn't be honored according to TN law, regardless of his age.

the factoids seem to be:

- One must be 21 to get a TN HCP.

- TN honors every other state's permit, but does not say one must be 21 for one's out of state permit to be honored.

- But regardless of age, the other state's permit is no longer valid after being a TN resident for 6 months.

- OS

[Guest Eliminator55]

Replying to your question, I spoke to a county sheriff's office in North Dakota.

[Oh Shoot]

Replying to your question, I spoke to a county sheriff's office in North Dakota.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, but they gave you bad legal advice, in my opinion. TN statutes seem clear enough on the matter.

ND must be looking for every cent of revenue they can get.

- OS

Edited March 25, 2010 by OhShoot

[Guest Eliminator55]

The ND county sheriff didn't advise me on the validity of a ND permit in Tennessee. I spoke to the certified ND instructors who advised me that they think that it's legal. The ND county sheriff's office simply answered any and all questions that I had concerning the proccess and required steps to obtain the permit. The intructor who would be giving me the test does all testing for free. The most an instructor can charge is $50 for testing although most charge less. The fee for the permit is only $45 unlike Tennessee's ridiculous fee of $115 for a permit.

So, I doubt the state is trying to gain revue. $45 seems about right considering the fingerprinting and multiple background checks that are required. If anything, I would say that Tennessee is trying to gain revenue by setting the permit fee at $115. That's not even taking into account the ridiculous testing requirements that cost around atleast $80. So, to carry in TN as a resident you must spend 8 hours on instruction, $200 on fees and training and then wait up to 90 days for the permit to be issued.

That's nonsense. If the TN legislature really believes in our 2nd ammendment rights the requirements for carry will be changed.

I was glad that the county sheriff's office was so nice and helpful in poviding me with assistance.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Eliminator55

[Guest Eliminator55]

From everything that's been posted it seems as though my Tennessee residency would deem the North Dakota permit as invalid. I obviously wouldn't want to carry with a permit in which its legality is questionable. It's not worth the trouble. The permit will however provide me with the right to carry in other states that I do visit. So, I will more than likely still obtain the permit. Please continue to post your opinions though.

THANKS, for the input!

[Fallguy]

Yes, TN honors all other states permits, even those issued to those under 21.

But as has been said, the law also says if you become a resident of TN you must get a TN permit within 6 months 39-17-1351®(3)(

It would seem it is clear their intent is to require TN residents to have a TN permit to be able to carry.

Some LEOs might not have a problem others may, I think it is defiantly questionable enough that it could cause trouble.

However, if you want to get a permit I would say go for it, it would allow you to carry in other states for sure. Just check, there are a few states (4 I think) that do not honor non-resident permits.

[sigmtnman]

Regardless of the permit, don't you have to be 21 to own a handgun if you are a TN resident?

[macville]

Regardless of the permit, don't you have to be 21 to own a handgun if you are a TN resident?

Nope. 18. You just have to be 21 to buy from a dealer (federal law), so you have buy a handgun for a private party.

Matthew

[Fallguy]

Nope. 18. You just have to be 21 to buy from a dealer (federal law), so you have buy a handgun for a private party.

Matthew

+1

[sigmtnman]

Thanks. Didn't know that.

[Mike.357]

Thanks. Didn't know that.

it is not classified but I am guessing there are those who wish this was not the law.

To the OP, sounds like you are on shaky legal ground with the whole out of state permit thing. Ask yourself is it worth the potential trouble. Maybe speak to a lawyer who knows TN gun law and would be there for you if you get popped for carrying.

[-boatman-]

So, to carry in TN as a resident you must spend 8 hours on instruction, $200 on fees and training and then wait up to 90 days for the permit to be issued.

That's nonsense. If the TN legislature really believes in our 2nd ammendment rights the requirements for carry will be changed.

Don't count on it changing. Too much money to be taken in by the state for that to happen.

[JAB]

The law requiring residents of Tennessee to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit should be repealed. Why should I be denied a right simply because I am a resident of Tennessee. That makes absolutely no sense.

I personally would like to see at least open carry be legal in TN with no permit required. I also feel that if an 18 year old is going to be treated as an adult when it comes to law violations, etc. then an 18 year old should be treated as an adult in every aspect. That said, right or wrong, Tennessee law is Tennessee law - and current Tennessee law, until and unless someone gets it changed, is that residents must be 21 in order to legally obtain a TN carry permit. I am no lawyer but the spirit of this law would seem to indicate that in order for a TN resident to be able to carry in this state he or she must be 21. Acquiring a North Dakota permit in order to carry in Tennessee at the age of 18 would seem to me to simply be an attempt to do an end run around state law. I am sure it is not your intention to be 'sneaky' but such an idea does give an impression of 'sneakiness' and trying to do something that isn't entirely above-board and possibly not legal.

I think the biggest benefit to having a nonresident carry permit from another state in addition to a legal carry permit from one's own state comes in if the 'other' state's permit is recognized and accepted by more states than one's home state's permit. I wouldn't want to take a chance on using another state's permit to 'get around' the laws of my own state.

Edited March 25, 2010 by JAB

[JayC]

Stupid question... but if you want to get a valid carry permit for here in TN, why not just move your residence out of TN? Some states have fairly lax residency requirements, and since you would be a resident of another state, you can carry in TN legally on an out of state license?

Just saying, there are legal ways around the problem, that aren't grey areas.

[JAB]

Stupid question... but if you want to get a valid carry permit for here in TN, why not just move your residence out of TN? Some states have fairly lax residency requirements, and since you would be a resident of another state, you can carry in TN legally on an out of state license?

Just saying, there are legal ways around the problem, that aren't grey areas.

But then he wouldn't be able to legally purchase handguns in TN, correct?

[Guest clownsdd]

simple, move to North Dakota till ya turn 21.

[Guest Eliminator55]

simple, move to North Dakota till ya turn 21.

I'm not moving to North Dakota. I go to UT. North Dakota is a frozen tundra in the winter. I'm just trying to find a legal way to carry in Tennessee. I am probably going to end up getting Main's permit as well as NH permit just to provide me with better reciprocity. Once I have ND's permit, the NH permit is easy to get. The Maine permit requires a basic handgun safety course.