Here's your future, Goodbye land of the free

[Guest thorn]

So, let's go with your idea. What exactly, and please be specific, do you think government is supposed to do?

Do you think government is supposed to provide you with police and fire protection? How about defending the borders? Maybe paving the roads and fixing potholes?

Nope. Don't want to pay for none of that ...

I'll go out here and live on a sandbar all by myself and take care of myself and not be responsible to nobody...because that's my definition of freedom.

So go then. I hear there's some new construction in Israel.

[Guest Gene83]

So go then. I hear there's some new construction in Israel.

Bet your tax dollars probably paid for it.

"Well, of course I have to pay taxes..but I don't want to benefit from them. I am so rich and magnanimous that I will just give my money to all those who are less deserving than my people"

The world blesses you while they buy arms to defeat you.

[tntnixon]

One bill to rule them all, one bill to find them,

One bill to bring them all and in the darkness bind them!!!

I know one of you Photochop guys can give me a pic of the Eye of Sauron Over the Capital Dome!!!

[Guest thorn]

I'm reading this and more on Israel Comparing U.S. and Israeli health care systems just sharing since it's become part of the topic...

[Guest Gene83]

I'm reading this and more on Israel Comparing U.S. and Israeli health care systems just sharing since it's become part of the topic...

The most recent link that you can find is from 1988? You need to read faster.

[G27]

So, let's go with your idea. What exactly, and please be specific, do you think government is supposed to do?

You can find your answer by reading the US Constitution.

Do you think government is supposed to provide you with police and fire protection? How about defending the borders? Maybe paving the roads and fixing potholes?

Some of that is federal and some is up to local municipalities. Hopefully you will understand the difference - it's an important one.

I think perhaps you should spend some time reading the Constitution, it's all there, between specific numerations and the 10th Amendment. Something tells me you've never read the constitution before as your post is precisely the sort I see over and over again from those who have not.

But yah, you can knee-jerk react and act like I'm wrong for wanting the government to function as the constitution outlines, feel free...

[Guest thorn]

The most recent link that you can find is from 1988? You need to read faster.

If you had a point I'd consider it. What happens happens.

[Guest Gene83]

If you had a point I'd consider it. What happens happens.

So, your answer is pretty much to just deflect..

Thanks for playing.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

There's a lot to be said about "Don't tread on me". Read some real history and a copy of the US Constitution is free at Heritage.org and is found on the web and many books, in it's complete text. None of it is difficult to comprehend, either.

That comparison between other countries' health care and ours is irrelevant. If you wish to go there, fine, but our country is the only one that matters. I don't care what other countries do, nor do I wish to live by their rule.

Ours is not by rule of man but rule of law and the law has to be just for that to be.

Yesterday's 'historic' event was not a just law. It takes away the right to choose a lot of things you might not like, in the name of protecting us from ourselves. That goes against every thought that was put in the Constitution, and if you like the other countries' health care, go live there and report back. Otherwise read your history

please. Some of it you might not want to see repeated.

BTW, I'm not playing, are you? This isn't a game.

Edited March 22, 2010 by 6.8 AR
add

[Guest FroggyOne2]

After reading a few post by "Gene".. i have the feeling he is a plant!

[Guest thorn]

So, your answer is pretty much to just deflect..

Thanks for playing.

No, I was reading about Israel and you made an asinine comment about the date of the article.

Anyway, to interject the Israeli health care system here as some means to reason that we should have what they have then you should know more about it. If your reason is to mean that if we didn't spend the money on aid to them that all this would be moot, then you should know history better.

[Worriedman]

Once again, this is just my opinion. Two things are certain..death and taxes.

Au contraire. The ONLY thing certain is death, taxes are optional. Over 50% of the population of the U.S. pay no income taxes. Lots of people off the books pay no Social Security taxes along with paying no Income tax. Yet if any of them show up in an emergency room in the U.S., they get health care.

[Mark@Sea]

So, let's go with your idea. What exactly, and please be specific, do you think government is supposed to do?

Do you think government is supposed to provide you with police and fire protection? How about defending the borders? Maybe paving the roads and fixing potholes?

Nope. Don't want to pay for none of that ...

I'll go out here and live on a sandbar all by myself and take care of myself and not be responsible to nobody...because that's my definition of freedom.

Federal Gov't is supposed to do two things - handle relations with foreign nations (and war is relations, of a sort), and run the post office. They do neither well.

LOCAL governments provide police and fire protection, paid for with property taxes, usually.

Y'know, we actually have a manual for this (read the Constitution, all of it).

Have fun on your sandbar.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

If I remember right.. the only other thing besides protecting the nation and its populace.. is to facilitate commerce. Am I wrong?

[Rightwinger]

After reading a few post by "Gene".. i have the feeling he is a plant!

Troll is the word you were looking for.

+1 Mark@Sea, as usual dead on topic. Federal government handles foreign relations, maintains civilian control of the standing Army and I'll add can assist the states in building the Interstate Highway system so that they don't end at the borders...

Other than that, civil infrastructure such as fire, police and education is the States responsibility. We need to remember that as well when calls for a Constitutional Convention or Opt out plans continue to grow. The States need to take their responsibilities back and be a heck of a lot more proactive in what they do as well.

We need more signs along Tennessee Highways telling us which watershed we are entering.....need I say more?

[jtluttrell]

10 states line up to sue over health bill, Florida AG says - CNN.com

Not that anything will come of this.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It may be 10 now but that number will grow. It can change the law,

also. The 10th amendment is solid ground to stand on.

[G27]

It may be 10 now but that number will grow. It can change the law,

also. The 10th amendment is solid ground to stand on.

I've read that 38 states are mulling a legal challenge.

Unless the citizens of this country decide to sit on our collective hands, this can be dealt with.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We read the same thing. Fox just reported the number actively pursuing as 10 and the total number considering action to be 38

or more.

[MCSCOTT]

True liberty is neither pretty nor safe for everyone. The fact is you can't have both true liberty and safety.

If you want the government to take care of you, that's fine, you're absolutely entitled to feel that way. There are lots of countries that are set up for and by people just like you. The USofA was built to be different, and while we're sadly reducing liberties in the name of safety, the fact remains individual liberty what this country was founded on.

I'd suggest if the government actually did only what they were supposed to do and got out of the charity (socialism) business, you'd find that charitable giving would increase by more than enough to take care of folks. When people are taxed to the point they can barely take care of their own, it's difficult to find ways to help others. IOW, entitlement programs are essentially self-fulfilling prophesies...

One of the best posts in the whole thread. And to your last point about charitable giving, I myself am a prime example of that. I feel bad for the people of Haiti and Chile and other countries where natural disasters take place, and was perfectly ready to donate to help anyone that was volunteering to go over to assist them, but since my tax dollars were spent to help them out from the beginning I feel that I've done my part.

Our government regulations force more and more jobs out of the country every year, and our government support makes it where more and more people every year don't want to get a job anyway. One of the last incentives in this country to make people want to get a job was health care. With that gone, and the fact that the people that DO work have to be the ones that fund all of this, causes more and more people to find ways to get out of working every day. Once it gets to the point where no one in the country works anymore, where will the government get it's funding? They will simply start taking everything that the people of this country own. It makes it easier to do this when they control the banking, the healthcare, and all other aspects of what the people need. Before you know it you live in a country where the citizens have nothing, and one man and the people he surrounds himself with will be the ones that have it all. A vision of Iraq keeps popping into my head of what this country could very well turn into on the path that it's on now. If that happens in this country, I seriously doubt that there will be any other country strong enough to save us. It may not be in our lifetime, but it's definately the path that we are headed on if something drastic doesn't happen to get things back on the right track.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Alex Jones is now claiming that the big insurance companies are behind this, that they are the ones that wrote the bill.. his claim to this is because their stocks have risien in value.

[MCSCOTT]

Not that anything will come of this.

Maybe not, but at the same time at least this is something positive from individual states taking a stand against Obama. No telling how long the lawsuit will go on, but if the Obama administration were to win a lawsuit such as this it could very well be the dividing point of this nation and we could be looking at the next civil war here in our own country.

The structure of our nation is well on the way to being destroyed. Hmmm, there's alot of groups out there right now with that goal in mind. Our soldiers are overseas fighting alot of them as we speak, all while things like this take place here at home.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Health care bill: What it means to you - 3/22/10 - Los Angeles-Southern California-LA Breaking News, Weather, Traffic, Sports - abc7.com

Clear "what this law does" by year.

Yes, the stocks of health insurance companies are sky rocketing, as the government just gave these businesses a huge boost. Everyone MUST have insurance by 2014 - giving all the health insurance companies how many millions more new customers? True they wont be able to drop you, or not cover you for preexisting conditions. BUT, NO WHERE IN THIS LAW is there any limit on what they can charge you...

That will be the crippling part of this - the Democrats have just given the health ins cos HUGE money, but have not limited any costs to the taxpayer and the buyer of health ins.

Oh and all that about "death panels" and "this is the end of days" is B.S. and will come back to haunt the Republicans.

And as a person who empathizes with the ideology behind the Tea Party, having people curse, spit on, and name call (the N word, gay bashing, etc.) Congress Members, in the days before the vote does not forward the cause in any way. It is severely crippling, and alienating to those who should be recruited into the movement...

Edited March 23, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Worriedman]

And as a person who empathizes with the ideology behind the Tea Party, having people curse, spit on, and name call (the N word, gay bashing, etc.) Congress Members, in the days before the vote does not forward the cause in any way. It is severely crippling, and alienating to those who should be recruited into the movement...

If one were to be a savvy politician, what better way to marginalize your opposition (Tea Party) than to have a plant run up to a public parade of individuals and scream a few invectives, and possibly spit on the parade? Notice no charges were filed, and none of the tapes of the incident show such actions or captured any of the alleged activity. Hmmmm. All those cops in attendance, and none of them saw or heard it?

Gives me pause to wonder if it really happened, or was it conveniently manufactured.

[-boatman-]

Worried Man, you make a good point. I would not put anything past those people. I read that the guy who called Barney Frank a fag came out of nowhere and then disappeared. He was not with the tea party folks and they were thinking the same thing you said. It has also been reported that Barney Frank said to one of the tea party people, "F*** you".