Here's your future, Goodbye land of the free

[Rightwinger]

Worriedman says it all in a few paragraphs. Sorry for what you had and will go through.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The government has no business regulating your right to choose, period. I just don't understand why you would want to sit there and blame them, on the one hand, and not want to change them, on the other. Blaming only hoes so far. You seem to be enjoying the blaming and don't seem to care about the changing, to the point of 'sins of omission'. They are guilty of that. Those that are guilty of that need to be removed

and replaced with active conservatives. Isn't someone like Marco Rubio a start? I'm sure there are others, too. Carly Fiorina is running against that boxheaded woman in California. There is a movement to the conservative/libertarian side of politics going on. Isn't that good? We need to fight our own to keep the good ole boy dems out of office in TN, also. Isn't Ramsey a good prospect for governor?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What Worriedman says sums it up very well. I am so sorry for your situation. Mine is going to be similar soon enough. Many others will be, too.

I trying to set brushfires, too, Worriedman. God bless you.

[mk19]

This is the worst legislation ever passed! Bar-Non. I don't want the government telling me i must have insurance or they'd tax me further. I don't have insurance and am unempolyed, and don't want madicaid, so what they are going to fine me or throw me in jail. **** this legislation and all those who voted for it!

[Guest thorn]

if this is the best that our grand capitalistic health insurance industry can deliver (while of course making record profits year after year), then it has failed the society.

- OS

Care to elaborate on this?

[Guest 1817ak47]

Most of the people that post on the political parts of this forum must have the best insurance in America by virtue of good coverage through work and/or being young enough to not need it, whatever.

The few who have admitted that their health insurance sucks, is unaffordable, or is unobtainable for any price, have generally been castigated as Socialists or worse.

this is probably the best comment/statement anyone has said regarding healthcare or insurance on here.

my wife works at a insurance and healthcare call center and tells me about some of the stuff that happens and I am NOT going to discuss that on here so don't even ask.

there should be some changes made, but I don't agree with how and what they are trying to change.

[Guest forklift]

Hello all. Type 1 diabetic here. My pancreas doesn't work. Period. It quit on me 3 days before I got married at the prime of my life. 23 years old, running every night, 175 lbs. I didn't have insurance. The only insurance I've gotten has been through company insurance. Now, no insurance company will take me. Period. I can not private pay even if i could afford it. They don't take new high risk patients.

Point of this is... you just can't know when you'll need health care. So is the government going to council me to 'end my life' if i lose my job that pays group insurance? cause i can't get on private insurance...

PS. yes, i was a little dramatic at the end there but you get my point.

Edited March 22, 2010 by forklift

[redneck]

We all got health care now forklift . But what they are doing is the beginning of the end . It will get even worse with big brother . I don't need somebody rationing my doc . I sure as he!! don't want them in my finances . :rant: I cannot say everything I want , this is the web .

[MCSCOTT]

nice posts OS. ( and I am not being sarcastic)

The politicos have sold "we the people" out at every chance. I pretty much see no point in voting any more. We get choices that really are not choices and where any candidate really is not any better than the others.

The system is fubared. Time to end this country as it is now.

I couldn't agree more, and this whole health care issue just goes to prove it when I say that the citizens of this country do not have a voice anymore. When everyone can call and send emails to their congressman to let him know they are opposed to a play, only to have him for for it anyway, it shows that they aren't really even trying to hide the corruption anymore. For me it isn't even as much about the health care part of this situation, it's simply about the fact that politicians do not listen to the people anymore. Those that try to listen to the people get bribed in some form or another in order for them to change thier vote, all funded by the working tax payers of this country. Since I have no voice in the manner in which MY money is spent, then I see no reason for me to be forced to pay taxes anymore. I've always been a law abiding citizen, but the things that are going on in government today are going to force me over to a different way of life.

All living things have a life expectancy. This country is a living thing, and even though I've always been proud to be an American, I fear the country as we know it has run it's course.

[Guest Gene83]

"Discussion of Firearms-related stories from the news or personal accounts. Including crime, self-defense, or other such publicity. Please include a link whenever possible"

I'm still trying to find the Firearms-related aspect of this thread.

[Guest Gene83]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt the conversation. I just think it belongs in National Politics and Legislation.

If I were a moderator, that's where I would move it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, if you think insurance companies owe you something, they only owe you something if you have a transaction through them. They don't owe anyone anything unless they have a relationship with them. But that's all changed now. The same regulations and bureaucracies that have caused this mess is about to get worse. I pay a good chunk of my insurance, but my employer pays a bigger chunk, so I don't know where I stand considering the last several comments. I must be more evil than some. So be it.

If any of you think this bill will help your standing in life, you are sadly misinformed. Your condition came from your actions or God or a combination of things, but it didn't come from the lack of insurance. Everyone seems to forget that if our insurance was so bad, why do people come from other countries to get help here? That will all change, now.

Instead of changing the problems of health care insurance, the crybaby hyenas take

it all over when they have proven, time and time again, they can't even put the right

shoe on the right foot. You trust your government to grow, that's it. when it grows,

your rights diminish. Just ask someone who might have ancestors from the Ukraine,

Vietnam, China. Ask someone like that, if you can't figure out what we've just allowed

to take place in the once great USA.

Blame whoever you wish. You get what you ask for. You don't even have the right to ask for it. That's where the trick is. Progressives have always wanted to do this, and

it looks like they have won. The insurance companies aren't and never have been the problem. Our government has gotten involved in everything an insurance company

does. It funds research on drugs. It regulates how you can flush a toilet. How many more examples of control do you need to to see to understand that the government needs to shrink instead of this? I'm truly sorry for those who have problems with their

health, but ask yourself before you criticize me or anyone else, how I or anyone else caused your problems and why I or anyone else should be made to pay for your problems through our tax system. It goes against the grain of who we as a society

were once, and have become now:whining whimps. If you don't see the evil going on

here, because of this bill, pat yourself on the back for nudging us a lttle closer to armageddon. If you won't see that, what is worth fighting for?

[Guest Gene83]

Or you could ask someone who has relatives in Switzerland, Norway, or Denmark what their healthcare and life expectancy is like.

But, feel free to rant on.

[G27]

Or you could ask someone who has relatives in Switzerland, Norway, or Denmark what their healthcare and life expectancy is like.

But, feel free to rant on.

The viability of socialized or corporatized medicine is not the point for most of us, it's the loss of liberty this bill entails.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Or you could ask someone who has relatives in Switzerland, Norway, or Denmark what their healthcare and life expectancy is like.

But, feel free to rant on.

I don't see this as a rant, but ok. You get what you pay for. You lose something else in return for what you get. Those countries you cherry picked

tax you through the roof, don't they? They have different styles of government. Ours is one of individualism, freedom(liberty), something those others don't necessarily aspire to. What's the point?

[Guest Gene83]

I don't see this as a rant, but ok. You get what you pay for. You lose something else in return for what you get. Those countries you cherry picked

tax you through the roof, don't they? They have different styles of government. Ours is one of individualism, freedom(liberty), something those others don't necessarily aspire to. What's the point?

Freedom and liberty are great. Individual responsibilty? Who couldn't be for that?

You get involved in a horrific crash on the interstate. Somebody calls 911. Do you expect somebody to come and dig you out, or do you stand on that individual responsibility soapbox and crawl out of the wreck by yourself?

I think we could do a better job of healthcare in this country. That's my opinion. I think turning it all over to free enterprise results in the same thing that pretty much wiped out most 401-K plans.

We give aid to Haiti, aid to Chili, aid to pretty much any country in the world that asks for it..and sometimes even if they don't.

Meanwhile, in this country, we put a jar beside the cash register in a convenience store. It has picture of a child on the jar. "Needs surgery. No insurance. Will you please contribute your change?"

Policemen, Firefighters, and ordinary citizens stand in intersections collecting money every weekend to pay for healthcare.

Is that really your idea of America? Is that the best that we can do?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You might think you are the only one with compassion around here. I guarantee most around here are compassionate individuals and would likely come to the aid of another in an accident/crisis. There is a difference, however, between people who look to their government for that compassion and those who choose to live by compassion and individualism rolled into our great experiment called the Constitution. Nowhere in it is a clause for demanding everyone is his brother's keeper. Those kind of ideas are found in "Communist Manifesto" and various socialist writings. I question my compassion every day, but you don't have that right. Well, until last night you didn't. Check your premise before you proceed and, please don't question my compassion toward my fellow man.

BTW, those cops and firemen are voluntarily displaying compassion, not demanding it. They aren't cry for the government to pass social

programs.

[Guest Gene83]

Once again, this is just my opinion. Two things are certain..death and taxes. If we are going to pay taxes, why not pay it toward something that actually benefits us?

Our top foreign aid recipient is Israel. Check it out. I support Israel. You probably do also. Guess what?

Health care in Israel is both universal and compulsory, and is administered by a small number of organizations with funding from the government.

So, we send them our tax dollars...and they fund healthcare for their citizens with it.

But, that's not good enough for our own citizens.

Let them stand on their own two feet.

[G27]

Once again, this is just my opinion. Two things are certain..death and taxes. If we are going to pay taxes, why not pay it toward something that actually benefits us?

Our top foreign aid recipient is Israel. Check it out. I support Israel. You probably do also. Guess what?

Health care in Israel is both universal and compulsory, and is administered by a small number of organizations with funding from the government.

So, we send them our tax dollars...and they fund healthcare for their citizens with it.

But, that's not good enough for our own citizens.

Let them stand on their own two feet.

Sure, I'm all for withdrawing support to foreign governments. We can't pay our own way, why help everyone else out?

You can rationalize this all day long, but forcing me to have insurance, along with forcing me to pay for someone else's coverage, is a reduction in my liberty, plain and simple. You'll find there are a good number of us 'libertarian' minded folks around here. Not necessarily libertarians wrt the political party, but big believers in our individual liberties.

I, for one, am not flexible with my freedom.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Sure, I'm all for withdrawing support to foreign governments. We can't pay our own way, why help everyone else out?

You can rationalize this all day long, but forcing me to have insurance, along with forcing me to pay for someone else's coverage, is a reduction in my liberty, plain and simple. You'll find there are a good number of us 'libertarian' minded folks around here. Not necessarily libertarians wrt the political party, but big believers in our individual liberties.

I, for one, am not flexible with my freedom.

Agree with you crimsonaudio. We decided long ago that what's good for others may not be what we stand for. Liberty is much more important than

a health care bill any day, especially when it comes from the barrel of a gun now.

Nothing good comes from a government that takes from one and gives it to another.

[Guest Gene83]

Sure, I'm all for withdrawing support to foreign governments. We can't pay our own way, why help everyone else out?

You can rationalize this all day long, but forcing me to have insurance, along with forcing me to pay for someone else's coverage, is a reduction in my liberty, plain and simple. You'll find there are a good number of us 'libertarian' minded folks around here. Not necessarily libertarians wrt the political party, but big believers in our individual liberties.

I, for one, am not flexible with my freedom.

Thanks for your opinion.

[Guest Gene83]

Agree with you crimsonaudio. We decided long ago that what's good for others may not be what we stand for. Liberty is much more important than

a health care bill any day, especially when it comes from the barrel of a gun now.

Nothing good comes from a government that takes from one and gives it to another.

Oh, thanks for your opinion also. "Liberty is much more important than a health care bill."

The freedom to die in the streets or go into bankruptcy with medical bills.

If you want to see some really radical health care legislation, look at what Nixon proposed....

Nixon's Plan For Health Reform, In His Own Words - Kaiser Health News

Now, there's some radical Republican stuff for you to consider. Thank God, the Democrats rejected it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So there are a few bad apples. Are you trying to say that Nixon is the reason to look away from Republicans? I voted for him but that doesn't mean I agreed with everything he stood for.

Point?

Two wrongs don't make a right. If it ever does, please point that out to me. Or vote

Democrat if you think it is a better choice.

[G27]

Oh, thanks for your opinion also. "Liberty is much more important than a health care bill."

The freedom to die in the streets or go into bankruptcy with medical bills.

True liberty is neither pretty nor safe for everyone. The fact is you can't have both true liberty and safety.

If you want the government to take care of you, that's fine, you're absolutely entitled to feel that way. There are lots of countries that are set up for and by people just like you. The USofA was built to be different, and while we're sadly reducing liberties in the name of safety, the fact remains individual liberty what this country was founded on.

I'd suggest if the government actually did only what they were supposed to do and got out of the charity (socialism) business, you'd find that charitable giving would increase by more than enough to take care of folks. When people are taxed to the point they can barely take care of their own, it's difficult to find ways to help others. IOW, entitlement programs are essentially self-fulfilling prophesies...

[Guest Gene83]

True liberty is neither pretty nor safe for everyone. The fact is you can't have both true liberty and safety.

If you want the government to take care of you, that's fine, you're absolutely entitled to feel that way. There are lots of countries that are set up for and by people just like you. The USofA was built to be different, and while we're sadly reducing liberties in the name of safety, the fact remains individual liberty what this country was founded on.

I'd suggest if the government actually did only what they were supposed to do and got out of the charity (socialism) business, you'd find that charitable giving would increase by more than enough to take care of folks. When people are taxed to the point they can barely take care of their own, it's difficult to find ways to help others. IOW, entitlement programs are essentially self-fulfilling prophesies...

So, let's go with your idea. What exactly, and please be specific, do you think government is supposed to do?

Do you think government is supposed to provide you with police and fire protection? How about defending the borders? Maybe paving the roads and fixing potholes?

Nope. Don't want to pay for none of that ...

I'll go out here and live on a sandbar all by myself and take care of myself and not be responsible to nobody...because that's my definition of freedom.