Here's your future, Goodbye land of the free

[Guest trigem]

Know the TRUTH about the Government Health Care Bill H.R.3200

[TripleDigitRide]

What time is the vote?

[Guest Jcochran88]

Around 2 pm eastern

[eapking]

Well this country ceased to exist the day the Big O fired the GM CEO. Today will be just a further slide into the abyss of socialism.

[BrasilNuts]

I think I'm going to spend my day cleaning my AR and loading mags.

Edited March 21, 2010 by BrasilNuts

[Oh Shoot]

So, can I go health insurance shopping Monday?

I DO need a break.

Let's get on with this infrastructure thing, too - hell, South Korea has 10 times the broadband speed, cable tv, and phone, all for $50 USD. And it's available in every rice paddy.

And where's the no income tax on seniors up to $50K? I definitely want in on that.

And "immigration" reform. Let's get all the illegals out so there are more jobs for citizens! Oops, forgot, the "reform" is to make THEM all citizens, so jobs stay scarce and wages stay lower, and to get their taxes and votes.

- OS

[Mike.357]

i don't know what country I live in anymore

[Oh Shoot]

....

Never mind, too much of a rant.

Edited March 21, 2010 by OhShoot

[mk19]

I do wish that this thing would not go through. If it does it would be the start of more things going worng.

[Guest Catdaddy]

You can bet that for many of us, this pile of crap passing through the House will also be hitting the fan, so to speak....

[Oh Shoot]

Perhaps the GOP, who now says it has all these better idea for health insurance reform, should have done a little something about it during the 107th, 108th, 109th, and 110th Congresses, many sessions of which had a Republican majority in house and senate and all of which had a sitting GOP president.

You know, maybe a little of that and maybe a little of actually doing something about the Mexican invasion, instead of sitting around with Dubya pulling pud, and blowing our surplus on hammering and then rebuilding a country that wasn't even a threat.

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That really helps, OS Join in on the blame game. I think it's a different fight now.

Better yet, encourage everyone to finish us off and go vote in all the democrats you can find.

I think we just got a call for action, not another blame game.

Edited March 21, 2010 by 6.8 AR
add

[Guest 6.8 AR]

One vote has passed 226-204 I don't know what the procedural vote was about. Anyone care to expand?

[Rightwinger]

I came in as just as they were finishing up some discussion of procedural votes. Apparently they mixed in a resolution to recognize Cold War Veterans as well as a test vote on a procedural process to see where they were at on Healthcare and got 228. I think all they have left is general comments to the chair and then they will throw it to the real vote. At least they are voting so the targets can be assigned.

[Rightwinger]

Perhaps the GOP, who now says it has all these better idea for health insurance reform, should have done a little something about it during the 107th, 108th, 109th, and 110th Congresses, many sessions of which had a Republican majority in house and senate and all of which had a sitting GOP president.

You know, maybe a little of that and maybe a little of actually doing something about the Mexican invasion, instead of sitting around with Dubya pulling pud, and blowing our surplus on hammering and then rebuilding a country that wasn't even a threat.

- OS

Specious argument. Where was the minority then? They still could have railed on about healthcare as the butt hurt people they are but they were silent !

It was not an issue because it wasn't an issue then and isn't now. The Republicans have to jump in since it has become the issue for the now majority.

Both sides have lost touch. I never claimed any connection to Dems and no longer claim any connection to Republicans, but to make the above statement sounds petulant. Also, we hammered two threats to not only our security but the security of our allies in the middle east. It's always been the American way to help those we have defeated. Look at Japan, Germany, etc. We didn't have to, we just do. If we don't assist in rebuilding a self sufficient infrastructure then the void will be filled with another dictator or muslim based zealot forming a hostile theocracy and we would probably just have to go back in.

Come on Shoot, we can all point fingers at Bush, Clinton, Nixon or FDR. Can't change the past but we can effect the future.

[frontier737]

FWIW Nashville area Rep Jim "vote him out of office asap" Cooper will vote yes. I called his office a few days ago and he was "unsure"...what a load of crap.

[Oh Shoot]

...I think we just got a call for action, not another blame game.

Just factual statements.

Both parties suck. In the long run, they are both ruinous.

They need each other to exist. Good cop, bad cop. Then exchange the roles.

Loot the coffers through the back gate while distracting the populous with fireworks in the courtyard.

Most of the people that post on the political parts of this forum must have the best insurance in America by virtue of good coverage through work and/or being young enough to not need it, whatever.

The few who have admitted that their health insurance sucks, is unaffordable, or is unobtainable for any price, have generally been castigated as Socialists or worse.

The problem is real out there.

To put it on a personal level, which necessarily must significantly affect one's "politics", I'm 61, (barely) retired, with no golden parachute health coverage able to be continued from anywhere.

I'm in decent shape, just "old". I have no chronic conditions beyond bad back that I take no treatment for, no regular prescription drug needs, etc. My only daily consumption is an aspirin and a multivitamin.

My coverage has doubled in the last 4 years, and would have been even worse, but I've upped deductible to $8,500 per year and total out of pocket to $12,500. No doc co-pay, everything comes out of my pocket. The only perks from my coverage are that I pay the lesser "insured rate", rather than the "walk in off the street" rate and get a discount on (generic only) drugs.

And I pay about $4500/year for this marvelous single person coverage. So, I'm minimum of 13 grand out of pocket in any calendar year before I see a dime of insurance payment coming the other way. It's the best I can find.

No I don't agree with how this whole fiasco has turned out to date, no, I didn't vote for The Anointed One, but if this is the best that our grand capitalistic health insurance industry can deliver (while of course making record profits year after year), then it has failed the society.

If you argue that this and other instances of capitalism are limping because of unfair government restrictions placed upon them, then call it blame if you want, but everyone so adamantly opposed to anything remotely smacking of "socialism" should have been pushing the GOP to remove these regulatory chains during their recent lengthy run of power.

- OS

[Wingshooter]

I just hope they don't sweep this under the carpet before November. I am concerned that they might still have time to "sweet talk" the country causing this corruption to become a distant memory. I will not forget, but I don't live in a traitor's district.

I want to watch some politicians get fired in November. The problem is, these un-American Pelosi puppets have been promised bigger and better jobs for their back stab. I would rather watch some of these politicians go to jail!

We must not forget! The American people have to hold them accountable, or we are all in big trouble.

[Rightwinger]

Oh Shoot, and anyone else that has issues with insurance.

1. Did you know when you were in your twenties that you would get older and at some point die?

2. Did you ever think you might get sick?

3. At any point, thinking about the two above questions, did you set your self on a plan to ensure you would do all you could do financially and physically to alleviate and prepare for these enevitable occurences?

I'm not cracking on you but simply put, we are only granted the right to pursue happiness, not have it handed or mandated to us.

As to your costs going up, even though your not using all your benefits. The reason is simply that everyone else IS using their benefits to the max and then some. The insurance companies are being made out to be the bad guys in this but you all need to realize they only make normal or lower than normal profits for companies of their size. The rest goes back to paying for all the care they pay for and the management and administration of it. Want to see great rates, wait till the government goes single payer and your guaranteed coverage, even with pre-existing conditions but only have to wait 2 years to get that cancer treatment started due to budgetary constraints. Those 18,000 new IRS enforcement and administrative employees won't miss a check but you will wait for your new and great coverage!

The worst thing that ever happened in this whole debacle was allowing insurance to be created and then add mandates to it. If it was paid for out of pocket, the costs would be amazingly lower today.

[Oh Shoot]

Oh Shoot, and anyone else that has issues with insurance.

1. Did you know when you were in your twenties that you would get older and at some point die?

Absolutely,

2. Did you ever think you might get sick?

Absolutely.

3. At any point, thinking about the two above questions, did you set your self on a plan to ensure you would do all you could do financially and physically to alleviate and prepare for these enevitable occurences?

Absolutely, and have done the best I can.

I can afford the $4500 insurance, though it lowers my standard of living, and I can afford the extra $12,500/year if it comes to it, at least for a few years.

I'm not getting anything for nothing, that's for damn sure.

But I don't have even ballpark quality of coverage for the money that our elected politicians have, and that counts the many older farts than moi, who likely have more issues.

There's something not "fair" about that, even in a conservative Republican sense.

- OS

Edited March 22, 2010 by OhShoot

[Rightwinger]

All insurance should cover is catastrophic issues, not routine things. Again, like auto insurance, it covers accidents, not oil changes, so its affordable. If you abuse it with multple wrecks and speeding tickets that raise your risk factor, you get kicked to the curb, it's your fault.

Sounds like your covered. What you should be complaining about is the amount of control put on it and those associated costs that drive up costs. That and abuse of the system. Your insurance bill is high because you not only pay for your risk, but those that used their max amounts last year AND all the costs added to those bills for the un-insured that got free healthcare and the costs got absorbed by the rest of us.

Fix these cost drivers, and they will be draconian as well, but the majority's costs will drop to where we could all afford it easily. I believe we should also drop job sponsored health insurance so you get it on the market. That way it's not an issue of moving or losing a job that can get you in the pre-existing issue. Again, personal choice and responsibility.

[Mike.357]

nice posts OS. ( and I am not being sarcastic)

The politicos have sold "we the people" out at every chance. I pretty much see no point in voting any more. We get choices that really are not choices and where any candidate really is not any better than the others.

The system is fubared. Time to end this country as it is now.

[Oh Shoot]

All insurance should cover is catastrophic issues, not routine things. Again, like auto insurance, it covers accidents, not oil changes, so its affordable. If you abuse it with multple wrecks and speeding tickets that raise your risk factor, you get kicked to the curb, it's your fault.

Sounds like your covered. What you should be complaining about is the amount of control put on it and those associated costs that drive up costs. That and abuse of the system. Your insurance bill is high because you not only pay for your risk, but those that used their max amounts last year AND all the costs added to those bills for the un-insured that got free healthcare and the costs got absorbed by the rest of us.

Fix these cost drivers, and they will be draconian as well, but the majority's costs will drop to where we could all afford it easily. I believe we should also drop job sponsored health insurance so you get it on the market. That way it's not an issue of moving or losing a job that can get you in the pre-existing issue. Again, personal choice and responsibility.

All of that sounds very reasonable, actually quite "Republican".

Hence, my "blame game" for the GOP's long standing sins of omission.

- OS

[Rightwinger]

No its conservative or Libertarian. If it were Republican they would have attacked them as issues long ago. Both sides just care about remaining in power and that power comes from votes. You don't get votes telling the most selfish people as a group on the face of the earth NO, when it comes to entitlements.

[Worriedman]

Most of the people that post on the political parts of this forum must have the best insurance in America by virtue of good coverage through work and/or being young enough to not need it, whatever.

The few who have admitted that their health insurance sucks, is unaffordable, or is unobtainable for any price, have generally been castigated as Socialists or worse.

- OS

I am a veteran of the Insurance wars. Wife had a kidney transplant 4 years ago, prior to that, dialysis for 7 years. I keep up with the cost of health care. We paid a separate Medicare premium for 3 years prior to the transplant, it becomes your primary through the transplant and for 3 yeas after, then they drop you. Anti-rejection drugs cost me about 12k a year above what my private insurance pays, plus the myriad of Dr. visits necessary at $40.00 a pop for co-pay.

This new plan we will have to get under will cure that, I will be bankrupt in another year, and she will be dead in 2-3. 56 year olds who are not employable will get no care, they will council us on "end of Life" considerations.

It will be good for the job market though, all the new bureaucracies to dole out the increased tax bite on the luckily still employed going to the ones who can vote for the next 40 years, will create a lot of jobs in the Government, of course the taxes start now, the free health care is 4 years in the offing.

Wife was in college when her kidneys failed, had been for 4 years. She had just finished nursing school, which I paid for, when she got sick. We applied for her Social Security disability benefits, found out she had none, they now average the last 10 years, so her 18 years of paying the full 16% self employment tax was lost, she gets no benefits, and is not eligible for Medicare now, and never will be. Medicare is tied to Social Security eligibility, so we are screwed there. Government plans are not the answer, as a lot of folks are going to find out.