FedEx Vs. UPS

[LA_357SIG]

Unions + Government bedfellows = BAD

USPS > UPS for Jackson, TN. Adds 1 extra day on transit time to go through the Memphis hub.

Edited March 18, 2010 by LA_357SIG

[mikegideon]

I do, too, as I am in a union and not by my own choice. You

got that kickass work out of that individual who happened to be a union tradesman.

Exactly. I had to deal with IBEW Local One in St. Louis. The union was a PITA, but the electricians rocked. Maybe the best I've ever seen.

EDIT: they were also the highest paid guys in town, so they attracted the best.

Edited March 18, 2010 by mikegideon

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Unions don't represent their members like they allegedly use to. There primary goal is for the collective and equalizing pay. They are a political tool nowadays and use their collected dues to get progressives elected. They don't necessarily break kneecaps anymore but they do break good companies down, as it appears they may be doing with UPS. I didn't know about the rules difference between UPS and Fedex, but it doesn't surprise me.

That's too bad

Edited March 18, 2010 by 6.8 AR
sp

[E4 No More]

All this anti-union talk is gonna get you guys

[Guest SUNTZU]

Bring the noise.

[mikegideon]

Unions don't represent their members like they allegedly use to. There primary goal is for the collective and equalizing pay. They are a political tool nowadays and use their collected dues to get progressives elected. They don't necessarily break kneecaps anymore but they do break good companies down, as it appears they may be doing with UPS. I didn't know about the rules difference between UPS and Fedex, but it doesn't surprise me.

That's too bad

Fedex HAS moved into some more ground based stuff. If I was UPS, I would challenge the way are are regulated, unions and politics aside. Unfortunately, it's hard to read anything these days that doesn't have a bunch of spin and embellishment. It's nearly impossible to get the real story without talking to the right person inside.

The main company I work for gets a lot of press, and it's almost never accurate. The folks that really know aren't talking, so it's up to some "journalist" to speculate, and print it as fact

[mikegideon]

All this anti-union talk is gonna get you guys

There you go... bringing a bat to a gunfight

[E4 No More]

There you go... bringing a bat to a gunfight

Not hardly! I'm not union, so it ain't my bat.

[Guest SUNTZU]

If I was UPS, I would challenge the way are are regulated, unions and politics aside.

They tried doing this in 1993...with the backing of FedEx.

[mikegideon]

Not hardly! I'm not union, so it ain't my bat.

I was talking to the guy with the bat

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Pitch:bat:

[Oh Shoot]

This is all the tip of the iceberg with FedEx.

You must know that Fedex Ground (and Home Delivery, which is a division of Ground) drivers are NOT company employees, like the FedEx Express. They are contractors. There have been many lawsuits over the last decade, with an enormous class action one still pending. The basic prob here is that Ground controls 99% of the "independent contractors'" decisions, including actual max income in most cases, in quite underhanded ways.

The "contract" has been found to be bogus in state after state, and FedEx keeps scrambling to revise the "operating agreement" to temporarily meet state laws while maintaining it's enormous Ground profit while absorbing very little overhead or culpability. For example, when the California Supreme court found against Ground about 5 years ago, and Federal Courts wouldn't overturn the ruling, FedEx simply "fired" all individual contractors in the whole state, since they had been ruled employees. All contractors were forced to own more than one route, as that made them "non employees". They were forced to leave, forfeiting all their investment in truck/route, or sell to other contractors (and of course the value bottomed out, since there was a time limit), or buy additional trucks/routes and hire employees of their own.

So, besides the union thing for company drivers, you have this second struggle for FedEx to keep the Ground/Home division separate. It is THE money maker for FedEx. No benefits, no salaries, no trucks to buy or maintain, etc. UPS of course claims this is a hugely unfair advantage, and they are of course exactly right. UPS has both express and ground service, but both are performed by employees, with full benefits and etc.

The reason that FedEx company drivers have never been able to organize is because they are still under the Railway Labor Act of 1924. They could only organize a union if they do it all at once, nationwide, rather than terminal by terminal (the way UPS did), which is pretty much impossible. This classification has been perpetuated by buying political influence from Fred Smith's deep pockets since the git go. FedEx has also paid many millions in the Ground lawsuits over the last decade, indeed, it's estimated at about a million per month in defense and settlements.

At any rate, UPS is not under this Railway Labor Act thing. UPS is classified as a trucking company, FedEx as an airline. Right.

The FedEx pilots ARE unionized, have been for years.

Just some additional info.

- OS

[Guest SUNTZU]

This is all the tip of the iceberg with FedEx.

You must know that Fedex Ground (and Home Delivery, which is a division of Ground) drivers are NOT company employees, like the FedEx Express. They are contractors. There have been many lawsuits over the last decade, with an enormous class action one still pending. The basic prob here is that Ground controls 99% of the "independent contractors'" decisions, including actual max income in most cases, in quite underhanded ways.

The "contract" has been found to be bogus in state after state, and FedEx keeps scrambling to revise the "operating agreement" to temporarily meet state laws while maintaining it's enormous Ground profit while absorbing very little overhead or culpability. For example, when the California Supreme court found against Ground about 5 years ago, and Federal Courts wouldn't overturn the ruling, FedEx simply "fired" all individual contractors in the whole state, since they had been ruled employees. All contractors were forced to own more than one route, as that made them "non employees". They were forced to leave, forfeiting all their investment in truck/route, or sell to other contractors (and of course the value bottomed out, since there was a time limit), or buy additional trucks/routes and hire employees of their own.

So, besides the union thing for company drivers, you have this second struggle for FedEx to keep the Ground/Home division separate. It is THE money maker for FedEx. No benefits, no salaries, no trucks to buy or maintain, etc. UPS of course claims this is a hugely unfair advantage, and they are of course exactly right. UPS has both express and ground service, but both are performed by employees, with full benefits and etc.

The reason that FedEx company drivers have never been able to organize is because they are still under the Railway Labor Act of 1924. They could only organize a union if they do it all at once, nationwide, rather than terminal by terminal (the way UPS did), which is pretty much impossible. This classification has been perpetuated by buying political influence from Fred Smith's deep pockets since the git go. FedEx has also paid many millions in the Ground lawsuits over the last decade, indeed, it's estimated at about a million per month in defense and settlements.

At any rate, UPS is not under this Railway Labor Act thing. UPS is classified as a trucking company, FedEx as an airline. Right.

The FedEx pilots ARE unionized, have been for years.

Just some additional info.

- OS

Edited to add that much of that is in the links in my original post. Fighting political power struggles under .gov's own labor laws is a good thing for Fred Smith to put his money towards.

I don't have a problem with FedEx fighting tooth and nail to not become unionized despite all the lawsuits. Imagine that, the .gov trying to make another company become totally union. Its made to sound as if Fred Smith is vile because he's trying to get political influence from his deep pockets. I guess those union officials are saints that just want to flutter their little wings over their flock of innocent sheep. Job classifications are again under the law. Pretty sure that both UPS and FedEx just want to make money delivering packages. Now its big politics.

YouTube - Bob Dylan Sings Only A Pawn In Their Game

Give me liberty any day than government control.

Edited March 18, 2010 by SUNTZU

[mikegideon]

Thanks OS! I haven't been watching this. I get it now. Kinda read between the lines, but didn't know it went that deep.

[Guest cjr]

Fedex hands down,I have had bad luck with UPS everytime I have used them and the prices were much higher

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks OS! I haven't been watching this. I get it now. Kinda read between the lines, but didn't know it went that deep.

I was Ground contractor for 3 years as the last touch on my eclectic work history. I pretty much knew it was dirty going in, but even I was surprised by just how dirty.

I was able to get in and out with what I needed from the endeavor, but also saw financial lives shattered or chained to an almost feudalistic economic servitude.

I hope to see some bucks from the eventual Federal settlement to buy guns with.

I don't even have an opinion about the union vs non-union thing, but only feel that FedEx should be forced to compete on level playing field. I'm sure that UPS agrees.

DHL, of course, is no longer really a player in the US.

- OS

[Guest SUNTZU]

So more government control? Check.

[mikegideon]

So more government control? Check.

How is it more govenment control, other than the fact that it was probably spun that way in the articles? Both companies are subject to federal regulation. Sounds like the argument is about the difference in how they are regulated. UPS may be in the right.

[Guest SUNTZU]

FedEx should be forced... How about UPS shouldn't have to become unionized like they were "forced" to allow in 1993? How about more freedom from .gov rules than more tightening of the manacles? Mac didn't have to go to work for FedEx. Based just on what he said, he knew it was going to be dirty going in. All through the thread there are people talking about dirty unions and baseball bat emoticons. Don't work for them, either side, if you don't like them. But don't get NetNanny .gov "forcing" me to do this or that. LESS government control. If its a crappy company, free market will out it. $60 an hour floor sweepers that receive a week's worth of training for the position that vote for more government because everyone's "forced" to be like them isn't the answer, in my opinion.

[Guest ADAM]

FED-EX SUCKS!!!!! I have been in the shipping business for 13 years and cannot say a good thing about Fed-Ex. They have the worst customer service and whiny ass drivers, if they pick up your packages and deliver them correctly I would be amazed. For those reasons I changed all of my companies outbound and inbound(that is if I get to choose shipper)to UPS. Things may have changed in the last few years but I doubt it My vote is for UPS.

[Guest logicprevails]

I spent an aggregate of about 10 years in management with both. While they both have their inherent evils, I choose FedEx. I was in hub operations, BTW, not package or P&D.

[Currently]

UPS has this very nasty trick they use when they damage packages.

They put it in a new crisp box and carefully peel the label off the old box and apply it to the new box.

When you receive the box, it looks crisp and new so you don't open it to inspect it.

The driver leaves.

The next day you open the box and see the damaged package inside their new box.

You call to create a claim and they deny you for one of the following two reasons:

1. You signed for the package.

2. The package was inappropriately wrapped.

Now try to collect ... good luck!

[mikegideon]

FedEx should be forced... How about UPS shouldn't have to become unionized like they were "forced" to allow in 1993? How about more freedom from .gov rules than more tightening of the manacles? Mac didn't have to go to work for FedEx. Based just on what he said, he knew it was going to be dirty going in. All through the thread there are people talking about dirty unions and baseball bat emoticons. Don't work for them, either side, if you don't like them. But don't get NetNanny .gov "forcing" me to do this or that. LESS government control. If its a crappy company, free market will out it. $60 an hour floor sweepers that receive a week's worth of training for the position that vote for more government because everyone's "forced" to be like them isn't the answer, in my opinion.

I hear you, but the way I read this, the end result will be to REMOVE a regulation that will make organized labor possible. Did I read it wrong?

[mikegideon]

UPS has this very nasty trick they use when they damage packages.

They put it in a new crisp box and carefully peel the label off the old box and apply it to the new box.

When you receive the box, it looks crisp and new so you don't open it to inspect it.

The driver leaves.

The next day you open the box and see the damaged package inside their new box.

You call to create a claim and they deny you for one of the following two reasons:

1. You signed for the package.

2. The package was inappropriately wrapped.

Now try to collect ... good luck!

How come I didn't get my new boxes? They always just bring me the smashed ones.

[SkunkSlayer]

If you think UPS is bad you ought to try DHL. Oh my, the horror stories from that group!

+1 Ordered pair of binoculars yrs. ago, and the company that I'd been dealing with switched to DHL and I about waiting for them to find them in warehouse, they were looking for a needle in a haystack over off Harding Place, Nashville. I tell them everytime now to please never send DHL.

Fedex/USPS

Edited March 18, 2010 by SkunkSlayer