FedEx Vs. UPS

[Oh Shoot]

How is it more govenment control, other than the fact that it was probably spun that way in the articles? Both companies are subject to federal regulation. Sounds like the argument is about the difference in how they are regulated. UPS may be in the right.

FedEx should be forced... How about UPS shouldn't have to become unionized like they were "forced" to allow in 1993? How about more freedom from .gov rules than more tightening of the manacles? Mac didn't have to go to work for FedEx. Based just on what he said, he knew it was going to be dirty going in..

Yeah, I guess I should have been more specific.

The FedEx Ground mess is not so much about federal control as simply states' workplace rules and classifications. It has become federal because of several reasons, not the least of which is the IRS. Indeed, they slammed FedEx Ground with 300 million dollar bill a couple of years ago for back taxes and penalties for ONE YEAR audit of 2002. This has gotten "postponed" due to deals and manipulations that I haven't kept up with, but it was all due to misclassification of workers allowing FedEx's to avoid paying what should have been legitimate payroll tax burden and whatnot.

All this has come more to the forefront as the economy worsens and states and the fed is looking for every dime of tax revenue. Another big factor, as far as shipping, is that the meat and potatoes of both FedEx and UPS is no longer the overnight document. Just like the USPS, the volume of necessary paper documents has plummeted due to the Internet. Also, even small overnight shipments have decreased, and 3rd day service has all but disappeared, since Ground services of both UPS and Fedex ground services pretty much get "same side of the country" shipments done in 3 biz days, and coast to coast in five.

FedEx bought their ground business from Roadway Package Services, getting them into the Ground business to compete with UPS overnight in 1998. They also inherited the RPS contractor system, but began subverting it immediately. There are very very few of the original RPS guys still there, who all sold out soon as they could.

So, since ground services figure larger in both companies' profits, and FedEx squeezes more and more out of the (deemed over and over) illegal "independent contractor" model, it is only logical that UPS would push for more fairness in the competition. This has come to be federally pushed, since about 30 states and the class action plaintiffs therein for FedEx Ground class action suits have agreed to let Federal court do the multi-district fact finding and litigation for the matter. Other states which did not join in the multi-district action have made their own deals with FedEx Ground, which has usually entailed undisclosed payment penalties from FX and changes in the operating agreements between FX and its contractors - it has generally entailed that contractors "own" more than one route, usually more of a franchise arrangement to cover a certain area, and etc . And yet, that has not solved the probs in those states either. Ultimately, it seems that FX will be forced to make all it's "contractors" employees, just like UPS. Whether they become unionized is another matter entirely.

And yeah, Daniel, I knew it was dirty, but I was in a somewhat rare position to be able to tell them to take their contract and shove it, and absorb my losses - it would have hurt, but could have done it. Unlike most of the folks that get suckered into the scam, with wife, kids, mortgage, and no financial buffer. Ground also "talks" a great game, promising all kinds of stuff that's not exactly in the contract, but as Yogi said "verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on".

It was also apparent to local terminal management that I was a little more knowledgeable about certain matters and would push back, so they generally leaned on other contractors worse than me; also, knowing that I was only in for a limited time and knowing how to get along with the right folks, I could stand to be sort of a loyal opposition and receive somewhat less of the "Purple Penis Promise" than many.

The details of how FX can use the "contract" to control their "contractors" are so numerous I can't go into them here, but basically most everything in there isn't valid, and every time there is litigation to make them change it, they simply do so until the next litigation. It's estimated by the plaintiff attorneys that FedEx has paid at least a million dollars a month in settlements and attorney fees over the last 10 years. That is just considered "operational overhead", like any other business expense, since they make sooooo much more from not having to even have a vehicle fleet or maintenance that it's a drop in the bucket.

Which is all to say that I don't think UPS is out of bounds in simply wanting FedEx to ultimately play by the same rules they must. Unionization is a secondary matter, but it would likely happen if FX is forced to make all of its "contractors" employees, buy some trucks, and get out from under its absurd exemption of certain labor laws under the frigging Railway Labor Act, which really was designed to not allow railroad workers to strike in times of national crisis, like you know, World Wars and the like.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

+1 Ordered pair of binoculars yrs. ago, and the company that I'd been dealing with switched to DHL and I about waiting for them to find them in warehouse, they were looking for a needle in a haystack over off Harding Place, Nashville. I tell them everytime now to please never send DHL.

DHL is gone from all domestic originated shipping anymore.

- OS

[SkunkSlayer]

DHL is gone from all domestic originated shipping anymore.

- OS

I knew something had changed before comment about DHL a while back, couldn't remember it and hadn't ordered from E-Tronics in a while, you refreshed my memory. Good riddance.

[Guest jackdm3]

I ordered my all-tube B-52 guitar amp to be shipped from AL to Memphis. They said it would be bulk packaged with other stuff on a pallet to Nash. and UPS'd to Memphis. I asked for another shipper. They said they only did UPS. I was concerned about that and it was confirmed, by another gearhead who gots lots of shipments that way, that the UPS guys deliberately punch the boxes that said "FRAGILE!" Sure enough I get my amp delivered to the store and it had a HUGE gash on "FRAGILE!" It wasn't on a blank part of the box, but right in the middle of "FRAGILE!" I made them open it up immediately. They hemmed and hawed, but opened it. The styro was so thick, the vandals didn't break through. It's 100 watts of madness to this day! Try again SUCKERS!

EDIT: I remembered that the box was still in the attic

Edited March 19, 2010 by jackdm3
Clarification of shipping

[mikegideon]

I ordered my all-tube B-52 guitar amp to be shipped from AL to Memphis. They said it would be bulk packaged on a pallet with other stuff. It was to be UPS. I asked for another shipper. They said they only did UPS. I was concerned about that and it was confirmed, by another gearhead who gots lots of shipments that way, that the UPS guys deliberately punch the boxes that said "FRAGILE!" Sure enough I get my amp delivered to the store and it had a HUGE gash on "FRAGILE!" I made them open it up immediately. They hemmed and hawed, but opened it. The styro was so thick, the vandals didn't break through. It's 100 watts of madness to this day! Try again SUCKERS!

I design gear from time to time. The electronics manufacturers get it. I saw them hurl a heavy $10k audio processor all the way to the front of the truck one day. Never touched the gear.

[Guest jackdm3]

You ... Can't ... Stop ... Rock and Roll!!!

[mikegideon]

You ... Can't ... Stop ... Rock and Roll!!!

Hold onto your gonads boys

[Guest drv2fst]

I used to own a business that tracked tens of millions of packages for very large companies. We tracked UPS, FedEx, and DHL. FedEx and UPS are close in reliability but FedEx always wins. They both have lost packages, damaged packages, misrated prices, .... DHL on the other hand is just a joke. I choose USPS over DHL every time, even internationally. I sold the business a few years back so I don't have recent numbers but I doubt any of these companies have changed that much.

Ship (UPS of FedEx) where ever you get the best price. Reliability is almost the same (slight advantage FedEx). Insurance is only good for completely lost packages (which almost never happens). IF they can find any part of the box you shipped it in they will void the insurance with the excuse "insufficient packaging".

[Guest drv2fst]

Also, back when FedEx was all air express they were clearly the best. UPS is a company by truckers for truckers. FedEx used to be really great. Then they bought RPS for their ground business. While I was watching the policies change and the performance change it was amazing. FedEx went from being a professional efficient carrier to a bunch of thugs real quick. It was as if RPS bought FedEx and ruined the company. Reliability dropped to just barely above the UPS level. Customer confidence and satisfaction dropped as well. Professional conduct disappeared. I never understood that but I could prove it in the shipping data.

[Guest PeaShooter]

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'

[Guest SUNTZU]

And yeah, Daniel, I knew it was dirty, but I was in a somewhat rare position to be able to tell them to take their contract and shove it, and absorb my losses - it would have hurt, but could have done it.

- OS

That's what makes it a great thing, Mac. You took your personal responsibility and kept your options open. Those who got suckered, as you say, apparently didn't do their due diligence and make sure they weren't being introduced to a sixty grit condom. I'm not saying FedEx is puppies and rainbows, but I'm saying I'd rather have private enterprise than another union cash cow for the Progressives.

[deerslayer]

Wow, the misinformation runs wild in this thread.

1. OS is on the money--the Reauthorization bill is about FedEx and UPS playing the same game by the same rules.

2. FedEx and UPS both use the "ring and run" method. If a shipper wants a signature for a delivery, they can easily specify such. FedEx once left a 17" Compaq computer monitor on my front porch in the rain.

3. UPS pays zillions every month in damage claims, as does FedEx. Claims paid only when packages are lost is a fallacy.

4. There is UPS and UPS Freight. UPS does not ship pallets.

5. I am no lover of unions, but I would like to see some of you run a UPS route for one month and complain that you were getting paid too much or that union work rules made for a "cush" job.

Yes, I work at UPS. Fire away.

[Oh Shoot]

...

5. I am no lover of unions, but I would like to see some of you run a UPS route for one month and complain that you were getting paid too much or that union work rules made for a "cush" job. ...

Absolutely.

All the drivers for UPS and FedEx earn every penny.

The pressure to perform is incredible, and stop/package ratios are micro-managed via 'puter data to constantly increasing service standards.

It's amazing in retrospect to me any of us ever made it through a month without an accident of some kind.

FedEx Express drivers are now around $9/hr less than UPS drivers on top out pay. And FX drivers seldom top out anymore, either. UPS bennies are far and away better also.

It's even worse on FedEx Ground/Home Delivery drivers, since they are only paid for completed stops. Really hurts when you spend half an hour and 4 bucks worth of diesel to grind your way to a mountaintop and don't even get your $3 because you couldn't leave a package, or go to make a pickup and the small biz decided to close early, not to mention the constant wear and tear on (your) truck whether you made a buck or not. 1/3 of my route area lost money most every (long) day.

etc, etc.

- OS

[56FordGuy]

FedEx or UPS? UPS, but neither one of them has really impressed me.

FedEx won't deliver to my house. Granted, my house is about 1/4 mile off the paved road. FedEx won't even leave a note on the mailbox, which is on the paved road.

UPS, on the other hand, brings everything to my house. Packages for me, packages for my neighbors, packages for the people who lived in my house two years ago, it all comes to me. I'm not even the first house once you turn off the paved road!

I don't mind, though. At least my stuff gets here.

[deerslayer]

UPS, on the other hand, brings everything to my house. Packages for me, packages for my neighbors, packages for the people who lived in my house two years ago, it all comes to me. I'm not even the first house once you turn off the paved road!

Are you one of those people who live on a gravel road with five other houses and nobody has an address visible? Also, how is it the fault of a driver when a shipper ships a package to someone's old address?

[Oh Shoot]

..

FedEx won't deliver to my house. Granted, my house is about 1/4 mile off the paved road. FedEx won't even leave a note on the mailbox, which is on the paved road. ..

That probably gets fixed in a hurry with a phone call complaint, especially to Ground.

- OS

[56FordGuy]

Are you one of those people who live on a gravel road with five other houses and nobody has an address visible? Also, how is it the fault of a driver when a shipper ships a package to someone's old address?

Close. My gravel road is actually a turn off of the original gravel road that connects to the pavement. Though, in my defense, there are address signs on the gravel road.

I just want to be clear, I'm not fussing at the UPS guy. He doesn't have to come down my driveway, I appreciate the extra time he takes to do it. That's why I don't fuss about the occasional box for my neighbors, or package for folks that don't live here anymore. Heck, I don't even call UPS about that stuff. It's easier to just take the stuff to the neighbors, or call the people that used to live here.

[56FordGuy]

That probably gets fixed in a hurry with a phone call complaint, especially to Ground.

- OS

I've tried. My last FedEx package was scheduled to arrive early on a Friday morning. I got home that afternoon, no box, no note, nothing. I checked the tracking number, it said it was on the truck to my house. I called customer service, the lady said that I should get it that day. I called back at 9:00 PM, and the customer service lady informed me that the driver attempted to deliver the box at 7:00 PM and no one was home. Considering that my original call to their service line (when I got home and my package hadn't arrived) was sometime around 5:30, I can verify nobody tried to come to my house. I asked if I could drive to their facility on Saturday and pick it up myself, and was told no.

Frankly, it isn't worth the trouble for me to deal with them. That was the last experience, but not the only one of that type. It's just less stressful to ship UPS or USPS.

[deerslayer]

You'd be surprised how many people live on a dirt path with five other houses and no numbers on any of the houses, but a row of mailboxes out on the main road. Somehow, the order of the mailboxes never matches the order of the houses.

[Smith]

I personally use both depending on price. Sometimes Fedex has been better sometimes UPS. However, UPS has been far better in the gun department for me.

As to how the companies are run and the politics of said practice, I really like Fedex model better. I think it has the longer viable lifespan. Now if government would get their sticky fingers out of it (ala unions) and let the money "trickle on down" we would all be better off.

[Guest SUNTZU]

[Guest mikedwood]

The more important the need for the package the longer either of them will hold it up. Usually if it's not important they will leave it at the door. If it is important they drag it back to the depot and I have to pick it up.

If it's a box or a note they practice drop and run. I have a camera on the front door and sometimes they don't even knock, I have to see them on the camera and bolt down stairs like the place is on fire to catch them.

I didn't know about all the union stuff but I have a friend that started a couple of years ago at UPS sorting boxes part time and now she is a manager of some sort. I liked that because not many companies I'm aware of will promote from within.

I'm sorry but for the most part I like USPS best of all. It's way cheaper and the service is about the same.

[Verne]

I work for a large Dist Center in Gallatin and handle all the UPS/FedEx out of my building. I have shipped thousands if not tens of thousands of packages over the last 10 years.

That said both have there pros and cons. My rule of thumb if you need it over night FedEx. If you just need it shipped UPS.

There is no telling how many claims I have filed for both companies and have always had no issues but that is off a major corporate account. Now if I could just ship my own stuff from work it would save me a lot of money.

I have had great and lousy customer service and drivers from both.

I will agree though that DHL sucked!!!!!!

[ftncityfatboy]

If the dollar is the only thing that drives you then you must love the idea of "free" healthcare.

what? $*%$$@#((*$$(*@*@@))$$*()_)@#_, and further more - (#*$))_(#*$*))_____#(($#*$*$%%&*@#$. Now let me tell you how I really feel about "free" healthcare"!

[Guest manofsteel]

fedx is fighting the parking lot bill like crazy. that makes ME not like fedx. I also belong to USWA local1155. As a union member they have their place but its not in politics! My dad was a Teamster in the 50's and 60's in Detroit and he knew the gangster type takeovers. he was part of them, and they were wrong! Just because I belong to a union I don't or ever will support everything they do or even stand for. With that said in todays world unions are not needed in MOST US plants we have OSHA, TOSHA, and other government departments that make sure employees are working in a safe, non hostile place of employment. broken knees are a thing of the pass. They get what they want thru politics and to do this they use dues money. So do I stay in and have no say as to what they do and how they do it or, stay in so my voice can be heard? Hard choise for me... just my on this.