Please Look and Help

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Hello,

I am new to the TGO community and I'm getting my taking my HCP Class on Sunday. I have recently purchased a Glock 23, my first gun, and have shot it at the range twice. Note that I haven't shot a gun in about 8 years, and this is the second time in two weeks that I've shot. I would like some help. My spreads from about 5 Yds, 7 Yds and 15 Yds are below. I know that the 15 Yd spread is horrible, but I don't wanna know how bad it is, I would like some "tricks-of-the-trade" to allow me to keep this spread closer. Any useful info would help. The rounds were 180 gr Federal .40 FMJ. Thanks

15 Yds - 15 Shots

7 Yds - 15 Shots

3-5 Yds - 20 Shots

ALSO: After I receive my HCP, I am going to purchase a IWB Holster to keep in the small of my back. I've read the threads about "buy till you like", but am looking for a good, economical place to start for the holster, anywhere around 30-50 bucks. Thanks a Million, in advance.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Glock23ForMe

[Guest stango]

The spread doesnt matter. All of the shots just need to be in the silouette. At least it was that way for me in January.

[Guest stango]

The spread doesnt matter. All of the shots just need to be in the silouette. At least it was that way for me in January.

Edit for extra:

1. Breathing.

2. Even squeeze on the trigger.

[Guest SUNTZU]

You need to go th the range Saturday and talk to someone there about your shooting. Most shooters love helping others shoot better. Maybe a Nashville TGO'er could meet you and give you some pointers as well.

[TripleDigitRide]

These may also help.

Rifle & Pistol Targets

[Guest SUNTZU]

Also, focus on your front site. While unloaded, hold the pistol up and focus on your front site. Then let it down. Without looking at it, describe what it looks like EXACTLY, down to the little flecks of dirt and that ding on the top right...whatever. Focus focus focus on the front site. Aim small, miss small.

If you can meet someone to show you how to properly grip the firearm your shooting will dramatically improve with PRACTICE.

Quick google search turned up this ayoob article. Its the basics.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

Edited March 12, 2010 by SUNTZU

[Smith]

your target is fine. As long as they are in the black, you are GTG. Biggest thing that helped me was learning trigger reset. With the Glock that is an easy thing to learn. In addition to everything everybody else said, make sure you aren't using too much finger. just use the middle of the first pad in front of the first knuckle. If that makes sense.

[macville]

ALSO: After I receive my HCP, I am going to purchase a IWB Holster to keep in the small of my back. I've read the threads about "buy till you like", but am looking for a good, economical place to start for the holster, anywhere around 30-50 bucks. Thanks a Million, in advance.

Here's my suggestion. I got lucky and got it right by buying a SuperTuck as my first holster. I didn't realize how amazing of a holster it is until I just recently bought a IWB clip on holster to take with me to FL since I would be carrying a different gun than my normal one. Yeah, it sucks to buy because it's not very cheap, but you WILL NOT regret it (well, you won't once you try other holsters.) If you are an NRA member you can get a 10% discount from Crossbreed.

Matthew

[Garufa]

In addition to squeezing the triger as opposed to pulling it, try to take advantage of the trigger reset. Keep the trigger depressed after each shot then slowly let it out until you feel it reset. Then you are ready for the next shot and have only about half the pull distance. This helps alot.

Those correction targets TDR posted are a great help too.

[Oh Shoot]

..

ALSO: After I receive my HCP, I am going to purchase a IWB Holster to keep in the small of my back. I've read the threads about "buy till you like", but am looking for a good, economical place to start for the holster, anywhere around 30-50 bucks. Thanks a Million, in advance.

There is not an abundance of true small of the back holsters. Make you you really want to carry that way, as a really dedicated one for SOB isn't very useful if you decide to carry in normal 3-5 o'clock position.

Galco makes a popular one, a little more than your stated price range.

DM Bullard makes an IWB for your gun that can be used in SOB, but he recommends buying it for the opposite hand if used that way. It's $55.

Oh yeah, let me be the first to inform you that if you fall on your SOB rig, it goes without saying that you will crush your spine and be paraplegic at minimum; it will also possibly alter Earth's tilt on its axis.

- OS

Edited March 12, 2010 by OhShoot

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

You shooting doesn't look too bad really, although it appears somewhat inconsistent. That is easily understood since it has been a while since you did any extended shooting. One piece of advice I can offer is to get some snapcaps and run some dry fire practice drills - focusing on keeping the sights solid/steady as you squeeze the trigger. the problem with that is that you have a Glock and you will have to manually cycle the slide for every shot.

Dry fire practice helped me to where I can pretty much do this consistently.

Edited March 12, 2010 by pws_smokeyjones

[setsdw]

Also check out Kholsters. Very comparable to the Supertuck but for a little less $$$. I've had both and I'm satisfied with either.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Thanks everyone, the info is great, keep it coming, I know I am learning and going to use it and I am pretty sure anyone else that is new can use it as well.

[Guest CK1]

I've posted this many times before as it was such a big help to me... just a couple links to an article and a vid dealing with the importance of grip. Lots of shooters, and I mean LOTS, don't really know how to hold a gun right, you don't have to be one of them.

In this vid at 1min 30sec into it Mr. Sevigny shows you how you should be holding your gun... it may feel weird at first, but trust me, by the time it starts to feel natural and closer to second nature all your shots will be making one nice ragged hole out to 15 yards or further. I say watch it maybe 100 times or as many times as it takes to really sink in and duplicate it.

Remember that if you're shooting from a modern isosceles stance and your shoulders are squared with the target that your support arm will actually be more straight out in front of you than your master/trigger arm (which is probably opposite from what you've always been told or from what feels "normal"), although neither arm should be locked (both elbows slightly bent, trigger hand elbow will be more so).

Your support hand holds, aims, and controls the gun... your master/trigger hand is primarily responsible only for pulling the trigger straight back if done right (your support hand fingers will wrap and squeeze down around and on top of your other hand and the gun, your trigger hand will be able to stay pretty relaxed but that gun won't be going anywhere). Remember to roll your support hand wrist out away from your body so your thumb can more easily end up pointing at the target and the rest will start to come together for you... the targets won't lie, you'll see the impact quickly.

Watch this:

YouTube - Milspecmonkey.com Shotshow 2007 Glock

Read this (disregard the whole part about "thumb-over-thumbs" grip as it's useless info and NOT what you want to be doing, the "straight thumbs" or "thumbs forward" grip is what you're looking at):

The Combat Handgun Grip

Good luck.

Then, once you've got this down, you've got to teach yourself to shoot with both of your eyes open...

Edited March 13, 2010 by CK1

[aquaman67]

I'm taking mine tomorrow. Good call on this thread.

If you shoot like that Sunday, you'll pass. You have the rest of your life to "tighten it up."

I think you'll do fine. Good luck...

[dats82]

When you raise the gun to shoot, do not just point it at the target and pull the trigger. Shooting a handgun well is all about grip. Somebody told me one time, if you are right handed, when you get a good grip on the gun like in the video above, push forward with your right hand while you pull back with your left hand. This seems to really help me get a good solid stance. Lean into the gun slightly with a stance that is comfortable for you to maintain, and get used to positioning your body such that the natural point of aim is on target. If you try to force the gun onto the target with your muscles, it will never tighten up and you will get tired. Focus on the front sight but see where you want to place the shot, and squeeze it off with the pad of your digit using only the joints of the finger. Get used to doing all this stuff and just practice. If you have a .22 pistol, you might want to use it to get the basics.

[Guest m&pc9]

Dont pull the trigger, Just ease it back till it goes bang. I find myself pushing the gun from time to time. So I slow myself down to just ease the trigger back.

[Guest CK1]

push forward with your right hand while you pull back with your left hand.

NO.

Not to offend, but the push/pull method is an outdated technique that will only lead to other bad habits... absolutely correct about how important grip is to shooting well though.

I look at it like this: shooting is hard, but it's easier if you're holding the gun right.

Don't think that even holding the pistol correctly just comes easy... takes some practice. Guess that's part of what makes it fun when it all starts to come together.

(also, Glocks in particular are much less forgiving to poor grip technique since they're so light when compared to other types of guns, if you don't believe me search "glock shooting to the left" and you'll find lots to read, usually people point to trigger technique, but with Glocks the grip is just as, if not more important IMO)

Edited March 13, 2010 by CK1

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Thanks aquaman... same to you... And thanks to everyone for all the info, keep it coming... us Newbies need help from all you seasoned shooters.

One thing I did learn from my ex's father, a police officer, he said that they taught him that every shot's recoil, needs to be a surprise... Just know you're pulling the trigger and let the recoil surprise you.. That right there is pretty much what I have based my shooting on so far. I know that all of my shots to the left are because I am anticipating the shot.. and its ALWAYS the first one.

[Steelharp]

To each their own, but: "Thumb-over-thumb is a universal technique that works with any type of gun--1911, SIG, Glock, revolver, anything. The same can't be said of straight-thumbs."

That's why I use thumb-over-thumb. Straight thumb isn't natural, CAN be learned, does work well. Thumb-over-thumb IS natural, automatic, and works well with anything.

"Straight-thumbs can be an especially bad deal with revolvers." "The first time you get a flash burn on your thumb firing a revolver straight-thumbs, you'll never want to do it again."

[Guest CK1]

To each their own, but: "Thumb-over-thumb is a universal technique that works with any type of gun--1911, SIG, Glock, revolver, anything. The same can't be said of straight-thumbs."

That's why I use thumb-over-thumb. Straight thumb isn't natural, CAN be learned, does work well. Thumb-over-thumb IS natural, automatic, and works well with anything.

"Straight-thumbs can be an especially bad deal with revolvers." "The first time you get a flash burn on your thumb firing a revolver straight-thumbs, you'll never want to do it again."

For me, the "straight thumbs/thumbs forward" grip IS natural as can be... NOW, after learning it and getting used to it.

Here's another quote from that article that you may have missed: "The thumb-over-thumb grip is not used by any top shooter; however, its easy "learnability" and execution by new shooters makes it an excellent first grip for beginners."

Since the OP wisely chose a Glock instead of a Sig or some revolver, he's free to learn the most modern pragmatic techniques rather than adjusting for annoying problematic levers that have been placed in the way or worrying about powder burns... c'mon Mikey, it's 2010, I've got a shot timer built into my phone... don't fight progress (please know I'm kidding Mike...)

Edited March 13, 2010 by CK1

[Steelharp]

I know you're kiddin', lol... did I say I was a "top shooter?" Seriously, the straight thumb is so uncomfortable and unnatural, for me... I shoot much better t-o-t. And it doesn't matter which gun I grab; it works.

[dats82]

NO.

Not to offend, but the push/pull method is an outdated technique that will only lead to other bad habits... absolutely correct about how important grip is to shooting well though.

I look at it like this: shooting is hard, but it's easier if you're holding the gun right.

Can you elaberate why this is wrong, or what should be done instead? I have had great results with this.

[Guest CK1]

Can you elaberate why this is wrong, or what should be done instead? I have had great results with this.

It's not really wrong, it's just old technique that's been improved upon that's all... the push/pull was in vogue about the same time as the Weaver stance, while both do indeed work pretty well, over time, seems us humans have stumbled upon some things that edge them out performance-wise that while having evolved through them have become the new standards as those techniques once were...

Push/pull, while accurate, doesn't manage recoil or allow one to track the sights nearly as well as the newer thumbs forward style grip, just as a more modern isosceles stance works slightly better in practice than the old best bet, the Weaver stance...

All of this depends on perspective of course... if your goal is to merely place a hole in the 10 ring at 25 yards or whatever, then whatever works best for somebody is what works best and that's it... but, say you wanted to be able to empty a whole mag into the head of a silhouette target in under 10 seconds at that same 25 yards at will while drawing from concealment... I'd guess good technique and muscle-memory would have a profound effect on whether one would be able to do it or not.

Edited March 13, 2010 by CK1

[dats82]

So I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. The OP does not need to be pigeon holed into thinking he has to shoot a certain way to achieve good results. I was presenting a method that has worked well for me. OP, just take note of several different methods, go to the range, try them out, and just use whatever method feels the most natural and produces the best results for you. Once you get something that works well, practice makes more difference than reading an article about the latest and greatest methods.