HB3125/SB3012 new restaurant carry bill by Todd/Jackson

[Guest 270win]

I think what would be good, since the sign and alcohol thing are both in one bill, is to revise the sign fine amount and make it a petty misdemeanor/civil penalty. Lower the fine from $500 to something similar to a traffic violation...hmmm 100 bucks IF this is something that has to stay in the code...and have it worded that someone doesn't have the gun seized over it and no arrest/booking...just a civil penalty type thing. That is much more desirable to me and I think more fair to those with permits..much more sane than a $500 fine and class B misdemeanor...that is the same as reckless driving, some drug offenses,...when these folks aren't a hazard to anyone.

[Guest TNReb]

Per the NRA-ILA Alert referenced in a previous post, I have sent the following email to all members of the Judiciary Committee. Since I know the chairman, Kent Coleman, personally, I did personalize his a little more.

Dear Rep. (Name):

I want to write early and let you know that I would certainly appreciate your vote for HB3125 dealing with the rights of handgun permit holders to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. I know that this effort has been mischaracterized by the media and the hospitality industry as being an issue about “mixing guns and alcohol.†I submit that nothing could be farther from the truth.

This law does not deal with criminals—it deals with the rights of law-abiding citizens. My son Scott Perkins owns the City Cafe in Murfreesboro, TN, and my other son, Drew, works there. All three of us are licensed permit holders, and anytime any or all of the three of us are there, we are armed. We have all gone through the process and expense of getting a carry permit and, since we are law-abiding citizens, we did follow and continue to follow the law in regard to the tremendous responsibility of carrying a weapon. I submit that we, along with the hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens who, like us, have demonstrated their desire to follow the law and continue to do so deserve the right to protect ourselves and our loved ones, together even with others who may be victimized by criminals. Your vote for this bill will allow us to do this.

I know that many will try to tell you otherwise, but I believe this bill is a good one which should take care of the concerns of all sides with any fair assessment of it. Permit holders who follow the law will not be able to consume one drop of alcohol or they will face criminal penalties and loss of their right to carry. Any property owner or business owner who does not want weapons in his facility will be able to keep them out by a simple posting of notice not to bring your weapon in. Again, permit holders who follow the law will face criminal penalties and loss of their right to carry if they disregard the property or business owner’s right to post their property or business. As to liability issues—a subject of concern to me as a property owner, attorney and permit holder—I would submit that this is a straw-man argument used in desperation by those who would seek to deny our rights. If anyone carries illegally, whether they be a criminal or a permit holder not in compliance with the law—there is nothing which would prevent someone from filing suit against the owner. For example, since my wife and I own the building which houses the City Cafe, if someone comes in to rob the place and a person is injured in that attempt or in the process of trying to prevent the attempt, that person can still sue my wife and me as the property owners and let the courts decide if we have any liability. Allowing permit holders to carry will not increase or decrease potential liability in any way. The only reason, I submit, that anyone with the hospitality industry wants to defeat our efforts is so that they will not have to tell us they want to deny our rights. They simply want you to do the dirty work for them so that they do not have to suffer potential loss of business from permit holders. In other words, they don’t have the courage of their convictions and want to be able to say, in effect, that the legislature is responsible for this—not me. As part of the hospitality industry, I can tell you I do not stand with them, and I challenge them to prove one instance in the entire United States where potential business was lost because some business or group said we are not coming to your state since you allow handguns to be carried in restaurants where liquor is served. Just as they cannot cite any incidents involving lawful permit holders, I believe they will come up empty in this area also.

As I said before, the law behind this bill has nothing to do with “guns in bars†or “mixing guns and alcohol.†Those who don’t care about the law, i.e. criminals, are going to ignore anything that may pass. However, those who do care about the law, i.e. permit holders, are going to either continue to follow it, and leave themselves, their loved ones or other law-abiding potential victims of crime vulnerable to the criminals, or turn themselves into law-breakers by carrying in prohibited places when they decide that the protection of themselves and others is more important than following the letter of the law. Please don’t put us in this position. This is not about vague concepts or perceptions—this is personal. A vote against this bill tells me that you do not trust me, personally, to do the right thing. By denying any responsible permit holder the right—not privilege—to carry you are denying me, my sons, and others like us, the right—not privilege—to protect ourselves, others and, potentially, you, from those who don’t care about what you do with this bill. Please think about us when called upon to vote on this bill, and vote to do what is right by us. Vote yes, please, to pass this bill to the full House for a vote, and also please vote yes there to pass the bill and send it to the governor.

Sincerely,

There is no pride of authorship here. Please feel free to use any or all of this to fashion your own email or letter to each member of the committee. We must flood their offices with our feedback, because you know the other side is going to, and they have the state-run media in their pockets.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

guys when its all said and done you will like the final draft... trust me there have been many people working very hard to get it right this time.

[macville]

I don't think a knife with a blade of 4" or less is a weapon.

As far as banning weapons instead of just handguns, most people can't carry any type of weapon anyway except handguns by us and batons by those with certificates of training.

Under the current law, all knives can be considered banned...at least that's what they require at the Knoxville City County building as even the littlest knife is banned. I don't know anything in the wording that changes that. PLUS, over 4" only has to do with intent to go armed. The proposed law doesn't say anything about "intent to go armed" and 1301 says that all knives are weapons. Therefore I would think that all knives brought in by people would fall under "no weapons" because they are weapons.

Matthew

[Volzfan]

Has anyone (smarter than me) drafted a letter to send to our Sen. and Rep.?

[Fallguy]

Under the current law, all knives can be considered banned...at least that's what they require at the Knoxville City County building as even the littlest knife is banned. I don't know anything in the wording that changes that. PLUS, over 4" only has to do with intent to go armed. The proposed law doesn't say anything about "intent to go armed" and 1301 says that all knives are weapons. Therefore I would think that all knives brought in by people would fall under "no weapons" because they are weapons.

Matthew

Just because an item is prohibited somewhere by policy doesn't mean it is against the law to possess it there or make it a weapon.

The sign in 39-17-1359 has always allowed for the use of weapons instead of just handguns.

I think if have to go somewhere that has a new and proper 39-17-1359 sign, I will not take my handgun in, but I will keep my pocket knife and multi-tool. When if I am ever charged with it....I'll come back and let everyone know.

After I make bail that is....

[Oh Shoot]

...After I make bail that is....

Then you'll will be standing on both principal and principle.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Then you'll will be standing on both principal and principle.

- OS

Hey the other thread was about school....

[Oh Shoot]

Hey the other thread was about school....

[Guest TNReb]

The following is a response to my email from Rep. Hank Fincher:

Dear Mr. Perkins,

Thank you for contacting me. I am a co-sponsor of this bill, and will vote for it. As a HCP holder and certified pistol instructor, I understand the sensibility of allowing HCP holders to carry in restaurants as long as they aren't drinking alcohol.

Thanks so much for all you do!

Sincerely yours,

Hank Fincher

I have sent a thank you response to him and would encourage everyone to let him know we appreciate his standing up for us!

Edited March 12, 2010 by TNReb

[Guest TNReb]

HB3125 is now on the House Judiciary Committee calendar for next Tuesday, March 16th, at 3:30 pm. Call, write and/or email the members now, please! Also, if you can be there to speak for the bill or just show your support for it, make your plans now.

[macville]

Just because an item is prohibited somewhere by policy doesn't mean it is against the law to possess it there or make it a weapon.

The sign in 39-17-1359 has always allowed for the use of weapons instead of just handguns.

I think if have to go somewhere that has a new and proper 39-17-1359 sign, I will not take my handgun in, but I will keep my pocket knife and multi-tool. When if I am ever charged with it....I'll come back and let everyone know.

After I make bail that is....

No, under current law, they are legally banning ALL knives in the Knox City County building. The building is posted properly against all weapons. It's just under the current law you can kinda choose what's banned and what's not. However, under the possible new law it looks like everything defined as a "weapon" in 1301 will be banned no matter what. I think it's actually a good thing because if it gets passed and signed into law, we can talk about people bringing in simple pocket knives would be breaking the law in the same way we would be by carrying a firearm.

Matthew

[-boatman-]

I think if have to go somewhere that has a new and proper 39-17-1359 sign, I will not take my handgun in, but I will keep my pocket knife and multi-tool. When if I am ever charged with it....I'll come back and let everyone know.

+1 I have never used my pocket knife as a weapon BUT I use it every day as a tool so that is what I consider it to be.

[Guest uofmeet]

+1 I have never used my pocket knife as a weapon BUT I use it every day as a tool so that is what I consider it to be.

Ditto, As being an engineer for a radio station, i almost always have some sort of pocket tool(knife) with me. never know when you might need it. I have a small one attached to my key ring.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

If someone decides to ban/take pocket knives I wont like it but Im not too worried, I can still stab the hell out of the bad guy with my ink pen.

Anything can be a weapon.

[Guest 270win]

I don't think a knife under 4 inches is generally considered a weapon with 'intent to go armed' in TN. If you carry a knife over 4 in, you don't need to have 'intent to go armed'...as in you need to be going fishing, hunting, knife show, not carrying it as a weapon if over 4 inches.

The best thing is don't walk through metal detectors!

[Oh Shoot]

I don't think a knife under 4 inches is generally considered a weapon with 'intent to go armed' in TN. If you carry a knife over 4 in, you don't need to have 'intent to go armed'...as in you need to be going fishing, hunting, knife show, not carrying it as a weapon if over 4 inches.

The best thing is don't walk through metal detectors!

The law actually "says" that you can carry a knife over 4" or a club if you have an HCP.

39-17-1308 says,

"(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;"

Says it is a defense to 39-17-1307, period, eh?

- OS

[macville]

The law actually "says" that you can carry a knife over 4" or a club if you have an HCP.

39-17-1308 says,

"(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;"

Says it is a defense to 39-17-1307, period, eh?

- OS

You know, I don't think they probably meant to make it legal for someone with a HCP to carry a knife longer than 4", but I sure as heck think the law pretty clearly states that it's legal. In fact, I would say that because of the wording that carrying a club would also be legal without the baton permit as the HCP SHOULD be a defense to that. Amazing what the idiots we send to Nashville will write.

Matthew

[macville]

If someone decides to ban/take pocket knives I wont like it but Im not too worried, I can still stab the hell out of the bad guy with my ink pen.

Anything can be a weapon.

True true. When I step onto an airplane the first thing I always do is try to figure out what I could use for a weapon if I had to stop a bad guy. I mean, what else am I going to do? Listen to their safety talk about landing on water when the flight is solely over land?

Matthew

[Guest TNReb]

Has everyone contacted the members of the Judiciary Committee yet? If not, we need to get on it! HB3125 comes before them on Tuesday the 16th, at 3:30. Is anyone going to go speak for the bill?

[Guest benchpresspower]

I am wondering, when all is said and done, that if and WHEN dolts like Randy Rayburn and Adam Dread rear their head once again will they actually have a leg to stand on? It turns my stomach to see Rayburn on tv, he is a business man and nothing more. God forbid he lose a penny over this. He could care less about us and his customers it is all about the mighty dollar and nothing else.

[Fallguy]

I am wondering, when all is said and done, that if and WHEN dolts like Randy Rayburn and Adam Dread rear their head once again will they actually have a leg to stand on? It turns my stomach to see Rayburn on tv, he is a business man and nothing more. God forbid he lose a penny over this. He could care less about us and his customers it is all about the mighty dollar and nothing else.

I wouldn't be surprised to see/hear him pi$$ and moan some more, but don't see where they would have any grounds to challenge this one. This bill would completely repeal 39-17-1305...nothing very vague about that.

Nothing vague about the words that have to be on a 39-17-1359 sign or where they have to be posted.

Also nothing vague about that you can't be consuming while inside a place that serves alcohol.

All IMO of course which I admit doesn't legally mean jack squat.

[ngoeser59]

Hopefully HB3125 will pass on through. We all know Gov. Bredesen will veto it AGAIN. It will have to be overriden AGAIN. I hope we have the votes and the balls AGAIN.

[Worriedman]

The battle will be in the House chamber, pretty sure it will be a go in the Senate.

[Fallguy]

No doubt Hardaway and some others will make long speeches and last minute amendment proposals to delay, confuse and frustrate things.

But thankfully when/if passes and if the Governor vetoes it, it only takes a simple majority to override the veto in the TN legislature.