HB3125/SB3012 new restaurant carry bill by Todd/Jackson

[Fallguy]

See here Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

There are several things I like about this bill, but some that I don't.

Sec 1 allows for carry only in places that are licensed by the ABC as restaurants.

Sec 2 makes a violation of 39-17-1305 punishable by a mandatory 72 hours in jail and a minimum fine of $500

Sec 3 changes 39-17-1359 to say a sign must contain exact wording and that any sign in place now is only valid till 10/01/10 and after that will have to meet the exact wording part of 39-17-1359

Sec 4 says starting 09/01/10 all HCP classes must have at least 1 hour instruction on the effects of alcohol and drugs.

Sec 5 removes the ABC sign requirement in 57-3-204(e) for package places.

Sec 6 removes the ABC sign requirement in 57-4-203(k) for onsite consumption places.

Of course one bad thing about Sec 1 is it that carry in the little local place that serves beer only or like Pizza Hut will still be illegal. Also still not sure how you are supposed to know if a place has a restaurant license till you go in and maybe have already violated the law.

On Sec 2, why more jail time for illegal carry in a place that serves alcohol than for DUI?

Really like the exact wording part of Sec 3 and that old signs have to come into compliance by a certain date.

Also glad Sec 5 and Sec 6 are removing the requirement for the outdated ABC signs.

I still like the either completely repealing 39-17-1305 or making a general exception for HCP holders regardless of whether the place has a ABC license or not. Going to be bad the first person that has to spend 72 hours in jail for carry in Pizza Hut when they that all restaurant carry was legal.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

How is Pizza Hut categorized? A beer joint?

[Fallguy]

How is Pizza Hut categorized? A beer joint?

By common sense they are of course a restaurant. But since they don't serve liquor they aren't categorized as anything by the state ABC.

[Oh Shoot]

"Sec 1 allows for carry only in places that are licensed by the ABC as restaurants"

I thought this POS bill had been tabled or modified.

Unless ABC establishments are required to notify on the outside door, seems still very convoluted.

What happened to the one to simply make a general exception to 39-17- 1305?

- OS

[Fallguy]

"Sec 1 allows for carry only in places that are licensed by the ABC as restaurants"

I thought this POS bill had been tabled or modified.

Unless ABC establishments are required to notify on the outside door, seems still very convoluted.

What happened to the one to simply make a general exception to 39-17- 1305?

- OS

Well I have lost track or some bills and hard to do a search since so many are similar, but HB1807 that would make a general exception is scheduled to be heard the same day on 3/10/10. HB2694 that would repeal 39-17-1305 all together is not on the calendar yet.

[GKar]

Not at all in favor of this one...it is a substantial step backwards from its predecessor. The "pizza hut" loophole is just plain poor legislation (first because it is so very predictable in its results, as well as many other reasons), as is the "substantial compliance" language of the section regarding required signage (which neuters the intent, IMHO). And sec 4, the alcohol training section, gives rise to several immediate questions, not the least being: "whatcha gonna do about the 250,000 who already have them? The requirements of this bill clearly imply that the current traing is inadequate, so remedy must be made to those who are, by your own definition, now undertrained." I don't like where that could go at all once Rayburn, Dread, Bonneyman et al get a-hold of it.

[Fallguy]

Not at all in favor of this one...it is a substantial step backwards from its predecessor. The "pizza hut" loophole is just plain poor legislation (first because it is so very predictable in its results, as well as many other reasons), as is the "substantial compliance" language of the section regarding required signage (which neuters the intent, IMHO). And sec 4, the alcohol training section, gives rise to several immediate questions, not the least being: "whatcha gonna do about the 250,000 who already have them? The requirements of this bill clearly imply that the current traing is inadequate, so remedy must be made to those who are, by your own definition, now undertrained." I don't like where that could go at all once Rayburn, Dread, Bonneyman et al get a-hold of it.

Actually Sec 3 is the best part of the whole bill and I wish it was a bill by itself.

It says a 39-17-1359 sign must contain exact wording. Where it mentions substantially compliance is only where it says those signs would be valid until 10/01/10 but then after that date those signs would no longer be valid and only those signs with the exact wording would be valid.

Personally what I would like to see is an amendment to remove Sec 1 and Sec 2 (let HB1807 cover that) and the rest of the bill pass. Sec 4 can stay or go, doesn't really matter.

[eapking]

I thought all this crap about restaurants was going to be dropped. This is garbage. How am I supposed to know if a place has been deemed a restaurant or not. Bogus!!!

[ngoeser59]

There is an amendment that comes out Monday that I think will take care of the sections you guys don't like. Keep an eye out for it. The NRA Supports this bill with the amendment! I can't go into details of what it says just yet but Monday you will see it on the TN General Assembly Website. I am personally asking that the Members of TGO come to this Committee meeting in support of Restaurant Carry. This is the time to make yourselves seen. The media will be there so you can make yourselves heard also. This is a very very important day for right to carry permit holders. We gotta get this out of Committee and onto that House Floor. It's crunch time.

The Bill will be heard in Judiciary Sub-Criminal Practice & Procedure Committee Room 31 at 11am Wed March 10th. Please try and be there. Parking is a huge issue downtown so leave in plenty of time to find parking by 11am. I will see you there guys! Let's Roll !

Oh....and leave your weapon in your car. Ya' can't bring it in the Legislative Plaza. You have to go through metal detectors to get in the building. Most people know that but just thought I would put it out there anyway.

Edited March 6, 2010 by ngoeser59

[Daniel]

I'd come down but I will still be out of town for work.

[Worriedman]

If the Amendment does away with the "Restaurant" designation, and allows HCP carry in all establishments that serve alcohol, then there is merit in the Bill. If that is not accomplished, then we need to defeat it. Giving credence to any legislation that supports the "Good Ol' Boy" ABC back room control by the Liqueur Lobby needs to be stopped dead in it's tracks.

[Guest 270win]

The first two things are bad....mandatory jail time and knowing whether a place has some sort of liquor license. I get confused in TN about it b/c I just learned the state only gives out wine and mixed drink licenses and the counties do beer licenses...very strange! How am I to know and that would be very confusing for people. Mandatory 3 days jail time...even with a license...when violating this law???? That's CRAZY! You can drive DRUNK down the road and not get jail time. Hopefully this will get amended and it sounds like it is.

[ngoeser59]

Trust me......you will LOVE the Amendment.

[Guest RRM]

Trust me......you will LOVE the Amendment.

I hope so, because what is there so far is more confusing than what there was before even with the time constraints.

[NextExit]

HB2694 that would repeal 39-17-1305 all together is not on the calendar yet.

This is the one I'm hoping will come up. Everything else is just gonna add confusion. We need to let our reps know that repealing 39-17-1305 is the answer!

[kb4ns]

Actually Sec 3 is the best part of the whole bill and I wish it was a bill by itself.

It says a 39-17-1359 sign must contain exact wording. Where it mentions substantially compliance is only where it says those signs would be valid until 10/01/10 but then after that date those signs would no longer be valid and only those signs with the exact wording would be valid.

Section 3 kinda scres me. Yes, I like what it says, but it draws attention to the subject. When the last restaurant carry bill passed, few of the antigun folks paid any attention. The restaurants rushed to throw up a sign that consisted of nothing more than a gun with a slash and the words "NO FIREARMS". Might as well been a "No sharing food" sign. I fear that with a bill stating "exact wording" is required, they might pay a little more attention and more places will be legally posted.

[Fallguy]

Section 3 kinda scres me. Yes, I like what it says, but it draws attention to the subject. When the last restaurant carry bill passed, few of the antigun folks paid any attention. The restaurants rushed to throw up a sign that consisted of nothing more than a gun with a slash and the words "NO FIREARMS". Might as well been a "No sharing food" sign. I fear that with a bill stating "exact wording" is required, they might pay a little more attention and more places will be legally posted.

Possiblly, but it sure would cut down on the "Is this a proper sign?" threads on here...

[kb4ns]

Good point.

[Guest 270win]

I would like to see the sign penalty changed from a $500 criminal offense misdemeanor fine to just a simple petty civil infraction IF you refuse to leave the property and are asked to leave. That would make much more sense. There is no point out of making folks a criminal over a stupid sign who have a permit.

[kb4ns]

I agree. That's why I don't mind the "improper" postings. The only charges someone with a HCP would face is criminal trespass, and only that if they refuse to leave when asked.

[Guest 270win]

Yeah...I don't worry about those signs that don't have the right words either. I keep my snub concealed and mind my own business. I never have noticed a proper sign. Concealing a small gun cuts down on problems with signs. I've never heard of anyone getting charged $500 over a proper sign (again b/c most people conceal), but it is silly the state has a law that would fine someone with a permit over a dumb sign worded any certain way...that is silly. Isn't a permit or badge to avoid fines when it comes to carrying guns? Why should we be treated like criminals?

Edited March 8, 2010 by 270win

[JAB]

Of course one bad thing about Sec 1 is it that carry in the little local place that serves beer only or like Pizza Hut will still be illegal.

Which, to me, makes the legislation useless. It is much easier to avoid the restaurants with bars and still eat out (and get good food at reasonable prices) than it is to eat out and avoid places that serve only beer. Heck, even Buddy's Barbecue serves beer in some locations. I'd much rather eat at a mom and pop Mexican (or Chinese or barbecue, etc.) restaurant than at TGI O'Applechili's. Besides, some places that just serve beer as a beverage choice with meals don't even advertise that they have beer so you may not know until you are already sitting down, looking at a menu and breaking the law.

Hopefully the amendment that Ms. Goeser mentioned will fix that.

Edited March 8, 2010 by JAB

[ngoeser59]

I'm still learning being over there at the War Memorial Bldg. The amendment will be discussed in Committee. At that point, if the amendment is added then it will show up on the General Assembly Website. It will not show up until it has been voted on. I think the way the Committee is stacked, it should pass to go to full Committee. This whole process of going through Committees, House & Senate Floor, Veto override will take about 6 weeks. Get ready to ride the bull. The media will be all over this AGAIN.

[GKar]

Nikki - what is the predicted fate of HB1807, since it is also on the calendar for the subcomittee meeting that day? Is it perhaps an acceptable fallback if the amendment is NOT attached to HB3125?

[ngoeser59]

HB1807 sponsored by West, HB2694 sponsored by Dennis are not ON NOTICE. They are going with Rep. Curry Todd's HB3125 with the Amendment. The NRA-ILA issued a press release in support of this bill with the Amendment if that tells you anything. This is a great bill (with the amendment) and takes care of everything you are concerned about. So am I gonna see any of you guys in Committee tomorrow at 11:00am?

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5535

Edited March 9, 2010 by ngoeser59