A Landscaper Is Mauled,Sympathy Goes to the Dog

[jgrauman]

race is definitely playing a part in this case. the homeowners don't want their dog killed so they are trying to put it on the fact that the landscaper may or may not have been an illegal. i don't want to see the dog put down either, but it seems to me that if the woman was standing close enough to be grabbed by the guy then she knew he was there and was probably in conversation with him. it's not like he showed up early, the dogs were in the yard, the woman opened the door and sprinted to save the landscaper and he grabbed her and threw her between the dogs and himself. he was probably standing at the front door talking to the woman with the dog growling behind her or her holding it by the collar, the dog began to advance and he pulled the woman in front of it. my dog is a 100 pound malamute and when the door bell rings she's sitting right next to me. people freak out and she senses that and gets excited and stands up. the person at the door ALWAYS grabs the storm door and tries to close it on me. maybe she didn't have a storm door and he grabbed her arm instead. i'm not saying the guy was right by grabbing her, but people have a responsibility to control their dogs. if mine ever bit somebody that was at my front door in the situation i described i would feel awful about it because it was my fault for not having control over my dog and it would be MY fault if i had to put her down my it's going to be interesting to see what the other side of the story is, if we ever get to hear it.

[Guest Phantom6]

If ANYONE laid hands on my wife..no matter what the reason...the dog would be the LEAST of his problems.

Here, Here!

Unfortunately, unless there was an error in interpretation of the law by Judge Annich in the case of the State vs. James, the appelate court is going to have to side with the original Municipal Court trial judge whether he is biased against dogsor not, which given the information at hand I am guessing that he is.

BTW, what the hell does race have to do with it anyway? If Rivera is an illegal then he should be charged as such and deported. If he is not then he is not. If his name were Kowalski or O'Hara it should be the same. Either way, it has absolutely nobearing on the incident or facts of the complaint in the case.

[strickj]

if an american was in mexico and this happened would he get 250,000?NO!so why should this mexican get anything when here illegally?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

You know his name is Jorge?

It could be Juan Valdez, John Denver, George Bush, or Mario Andretti for all I know... or care.

I would think that had the landscaper (dare I call him a VICTIM?) done anything inappropriate, he would have been charged with all manner of things, assault on the homeowner for grabbing her perhaps?

The story doesn't say... but that wouldn't sell newspapers either. God forbid the media represent the whole story, with blame on each side, instead of painting the poor mexican alien getting mauled by a vicious man-eating beast. I'm surprised they didn't try to label the dog as a pit bull.

Do we as responsible citizens bear some duty to use both responsibly, and try to prevent harm from innocent people?

Yep, we sure do... as we are what determines if that gun goes off or not. A gun is a piece of metal machinery, unable to have it's own thought process. A canine is a living thing, with it's own brain and it's own thought process, and it's own ability to rationalize it's owner being attacked. Sure you can say they owners are responsible for keeping it locked up... but would they likewise be responsible for Johnny, their next door neighbor, who might be standing in their yard... and punches the landscaper in the mouth? I mean, hey, it's their yard... they should have had their friend locked up to prevent him from hitting someone!

Assault is assault. Was he charged with such?

Again, the story doesn't mention that... so probably not... but who knows. It very well may play a factor in the court case when it goes to court though. Just because he didn't receive criminal charges as such, it doesn't mean he's off the hook for civil actions.

If it were a full grown woman, would it still be unjustified in your mind? I mean, assault is assault.

Not sure what you mean by that... but will asume you mean the landscaper was a woman? If so, makes no difference. Assault is assault. Likewise, if the owner were a man, and he was forcibly grabbed to be used as a shield... same thing.

The dog did enough damage to require 3 hours of some type of surgery... I think many would 'freak out' when presented with a large breed dog causing that kind of bodily harm.

Again, the moron's actions are what got him attacked in the first place. Most trainers and dog experts will tell you that if you stand still, the chances are extremely high that the dog will not latch onto you. They very well might stop short and growl/bark. When the dog viewed the landscaper as a threat to the owner, all bets were off.

Your statement above makes it seem like the dog bit him, and then he freaked out, grabbing the owner. The article paints the picture that the dogs were out in the yard, or making a path towards him... he freaked out and grabbed the owner -- thus provoking the dogs to attack.

Again, who really knows which scenario is correct.

I agree... we probably do need more information. So, if you agree that the owners may be irresponsible here, I don't understand why there is so much ire drawn at the man who was attacked.

Because I'm really sick of stupid people, doing stupid ****, and then the innocent people getting raked over the coals for it. I'm sick of society today in general and what a whiney bunch of ******* this country has become. I love this country, but 90% of the people who live here need to be kicked in the skull. The founding fathers would probably vomit if they saw what the United States has become.

Talk about contradiction of statements... so you agree that the owners have a "responsibility to control any potential harms or dangers on their property", then call me to task for pointing out that *gasp* the owners had a German Sheppard! A breed of dogs known for it's protectiveness and used world-wide as guard dogs and such...

I pointed it out, because breed has no relevance here whatsoever. If the family had a damn chihuahua, they'd still be in the same situation. Your statement is the same spin the media puts on pit bull stories, evil black rifle stories (99% of the time labeled as ASSAULT RIFLES), etc. Sure GS have a higher tendency to attack in self defense or protection of their owners than a basset hound, but does it really matter what dog bit the guy?

If this dog was not considered dangerous, why would you feel they need warning signs?

Probably the same reason McDonald's felt the need to add warning signs to their coffee cups a few years back. Or do you not remember the woman who spilled hot coffee on themselves, by their own stupidity, and then (tried?) sued McD's for it?

----

I'm not taking offense by any of what you are saying... and actually agree with a lot you are debating. I think we both need more information to accurately make a case out of it. But I don't think the owners should suffer, if only in the manner of losing a family member/pet, because some guy went strolling into the yard when he wasn't supposed to be there.

[Guest Hyaloid]

that guy ain't too bright..he grabs the woman?? if he didn't do that, I could understand it. I've had a sheppard before..they're good dogs..but they're totally built for the protection of their owner.

the man got 250k for it. I say let the dog alone

if he grabbed my wife, I'd bite him too ...but with something about .45 cal. in diameter

This has inspired me...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41260#post41260

[Guest Hyaloid]

If ANYONE laid hands on my wife..no matter what the reason...the dog would be the LEAST of his problems.

I'd be interested to hear your response here:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41260#post41260

[Guest Phantom6]

if an american was in mexico and this happened would he get 250,000?NO!so why should this mexican get anything when here illegally?

I'm sorry. I missed the part where it said that this Rivera guy was for sure an illegal alien. Did I just miss that and if so can someone help me and show me where the article states that Rivera is in fact an illegal? In re-reading the article all I saw was something attributed to some posting on The Princeton Packet Web site. Some help here someone? If he is an illegal, cuff him, stuff him and deport him. If not, drop it.

[molonlabetn]

Hmmm.... a dog that bites illegals should be appointed to lead a border patrol, not put down.

If all else fails, I'd love to give him a good home. Congo was right.

I wonder if any steps will be taken to deport the illegal?

[strickj]

Hmmm.... a dog that bites illegals should be appointed to lead a border patrol, not put down.

If all else fails, I'd love to give him a good home. Congo was right.

I wonder if any steps will be taken to deport the illegal?

ill 2nd that

[Guest Hyaloid]

Hmmm.... a dog that bites illegals should be appointed to lead a border patrol, not put down.

If all else fails, I'd love to give him a good home. Congo was right.

I wonder if any steps will be taken to deport the illegal?

Is there a source for the illegal status of the fella?

[Guest bkelm18]

I too would like to see the immigration status of the guy. It never mentions he is illegal, just a mexican alien. Just because he is mexican and an alien doesn't make him illegal. I think race is playing a huge part in this. I'm not siding with the guy, but I'm not siding with the dogs either. Honestly, I really don't like dogs. At all. So I guess maybe my perspective is a little different on this one. I've been mauled before, and it ain't fun.

[strickj]

it dont say illegal but day laborer,the ones around here are usually illegal or drug users,etc (im not saying all and some are good people)anyone who cant get a real job and theres a good reason for that!

[Guest Hyaloid]

I'll go out on a limb here...

I am a HUGE proponent of immigration control. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. They deserve to be deported and send packing back to their original country of origin, and pay whatever legal or civil costs, i.e. prison, fines or whatever the law allows for breaking the laws of our nation.

That being said, I think it is a bit harsh to say this fella 'had it coming to him', even if he is illegal. At least he WAS actually working, and if you think the landscaping business isn't a 'real job', I would submit you haven't done much of it. It can be pretty difficult physical labor.

Punish the criminal within the confines of our judicial system, and if that isn't working, change the policies or those that make them. Wishing dog attacks on folks just seems a bit petty to me...

[strickj]

when i say"real job" i mean one that pays tax,medicare,social security,and so on,and yes i have done some landscaping several years back before i turned 16(thats before i could get a real job btw)

[Guest Hyaloid]

when i say"real job" i mean one that pays tax,medicare,social security,and so on,and yes i have done some landscaping several years back before i turned 16(thats before i could get a real job btw)

I see... thanks for the clarification

[Guest Hyaloid]

A pic of the landscaper... from the article link.

[strickj]

off topic on the off topic thread

I love these debate threads

you get a lot of different views that otherwise you would never think about

[strickj]

oh and the part about the three hour sugury,thats stiches pretty much.it takes a long time for them to sew up long or several cuts(i have 1 the lenght of my back so i know!)

[Guest Hyaloid]

off topic on the off topic thread

I love these debate threads

you get a lot of different views that otherwise you would never think about

I agree.

Hey... if he turns out to be illegal, let's turn this into a healthcare debate!

[strickj]

I agree.

Hey... if he turns out to be illegal, let's turn this into a healthcare debate!

i peed a little

[Marswolf]

I'm not concentrating much on the injured guy's legal status. Doesn't seem relevant.

What we have is someone who showed up early to a job and then grabbed the dog's master. If he had come when scheduled, the dogs would have been up. If he hadn't grabbed the dog's master, he probably would have had few or superficial wounds.

I just don't see that the dog deserves to be put down because this guy provoked an attack.

[molonlabetn]

Don't put the dog down... put him on the border!

[Guest canynracer]

The dog reacted to him grabbing his owner, the dog did his job= PROTECT

...my question is:

If the owner was outside when the landscapers pulled up, why didnt she restrain the dog BEFORE they got out of the truck?

and the same for the "other" side, why the HELL did they get out of the truck? I sure wouldnt if there was a big a$$ german shepard in the yard.

Hyloid put this thread together:

http://tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3246

[Guest canynracer]

I'm not concentrating much on the injured guy's legal status. Doesn't seem relevant.

What we have is someone who showed up early to a job and then grabbed the dog's master. If he had come when scheduled, the dogs would have been up. If he hadn't grabbed the dog's master, he probably would have had few or superficial wounds.

I just don't see that the dog deserves to be put down because this guy provoked an attack.

exactly...

and youre right, race, or status is irrelevant, and should not be a discussion point here...

[Cannon Fodder]

oh and the part about the three hour sugury,thats stiches pretty much.it takes a long time for them to sew up long or several cuts(i have 1 the lenght of my back so i know!)

I'm with you. From the pic above the leg wound looks the worst. And 36 Rabies shots, did the owner not have a up to date shot record on the dog? The old shot were I believe 16 total in the stomach but the new stuff they have is like 3 I think, can you say they bloated that some....I mean a lot.