TN Firearms Freedom Act.

[Guest 1010011010]

Maybe this should be in Legal and Political, but it seemed more likely to get a factual/helpful answer here.

The TNFFA says: "A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Tennessee and that remains within the borders of Tennessee is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce."

Towards the end the TNFFA says that it does not apply to DDs (more or less) and MGs.

nt-frame.htm&2.0#JD_39-17-1302"]TCA Section 39-17-1302((7) says: "[...] acquisition or possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun or firearm silencer that is validly registered to the person under federal law in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Records." is the only legal way for normal folks to own Title II firearms or firearm accessories.

So. What do these two things together mean for SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, and Suppressors?

It seems it would be most in keeping with the intent of the TNFFA that a person doesn't have to go through all the BATFE Form 1/Form 4 stuff for a Made in Tennessee SBR/SBS/AOW/Suppressor.

However, if SBR/SBS/AOW/Supressors aren't subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, does that mean it is impossible to have one "validly registered to the person under federal law"? It seems this would make it summarily illegal for a regular person to own them in Tennessee.

Thoughts?

[Reservoir Dog]

However, if SBR/SBS/AOW/Supressors aren't subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, does that mean it is impossible to have one "validly registered to the person under federal law"? It seems this would make it summarily illegal for a regular person to own them in Tennessee.

Thoughts?

Correct. Even if you followed the TFFA, you would still be committing a state crime because your items are not registered on the NFRTR.

The TFFA is a complete joke for gun rights. It is just a feel-good states rights statement. Nothing more.

[redneck]

Now I'm confused , I think you answered my question from another thread . But all that legal wording confuses me .

[Guest 1010011010]

Correct. Even if you followed the TFFA, you would still be committing a state crime because your items are not registered on the NFRTR.

I understood the TNFFA was a toothless piece of feel-good, but it seems like the TNFFA essentially means that TN does not recognize the validity of the NFRTR for certain NFA items. I.e., the only legal SBR is a one that's "validly registered" but there is no valid registry for SBR according to the TNFFA, since they are "not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration".

[Guest milkman]

I thought when I heard about the act, that it was to preempt another Assualt Weapons/Hi Capacity Ban.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

The TFFA is a complete joke for gun rights. It is just a feel-good states rights statement. Nothing more.

Eh... I disagree. It's a step toward promoting the right mindset. And the right mindset leads to action.

[StPatrick]

My understanding is that the law was written to challenge the commerce clause, and is made to take to court, ultimately the Supreme Court, should they decide to hear it. The state (and the NRA, very explicitly) will not be defending individuals who decide to test the waters themselves.

[1gewehr]

When one state passes such legislation, it's usually just to get votes from a small section of voters. When several states pass it, it's a message to the Feds.

So far, TN, Utah, and Montana have already passed their bills. Alaska, Wyoming, Texas, South Carolina, Minnesota, and Florida look likely to pass bills this year. Another 19 states have introduced the legislation, but passage chances are unknown. If that is NOT a message to the Feds, I don't know what is!?

Lastly, Montana already has a court challenge in process. The Feds are trying very hard to get it dismissed based on the grounds of 'Federal Supremacy'. In other words, they are trying to ignore the 9th and 10th amendments.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

Is it in a states power to completely prohibit a federal law enforcement agency from entering it's state and go as far as enforcing said law?

[redfsr]

Is it in a states power to completely prohibit a federal law enforcement agency from entering it's state and go as far as enforcing said law?

No

[Smith]

It may be toothless but I see it as good ground work, or to follow the analogy the gums. It is easier to add a tooth at a time if need be. Whether it be spineless or effective depends on what comes down the line.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Even though the TN Firearms Freedom Act may be feel

good, if a TN trooper tells an ATF thug to turn around at

the border for an improper use of authority, he better

do it. Not saying it would happen, but there would be

some serious sovereignty issues at play, because of the

10th amendment. Posture all you want, folks, but the

10th is in there for a reason. The act has problems,

no doubt, but it would be wrong for a branch of the federal

government to try that. It really should anger enough in

this state to use force to keep it from happening. Even

though a law is on the books doesn't make it constitutional.

It is something that needs to be corrected.

Edited March 9, 2010 by 6.8 AR
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[Guest bkelm18]

Even though the TN Firearms Freedom Act may be feel

good, if a TN trooper tells an ATF thug to turn around at

the border for an improper use of authority, he better

do it. Not saying it would happen, but there would be

some serious sovereignty issues at play, because of the

10th amendment. Posture all you want, folks, but the

10th is in there for a reason. The act has problems,

no doubt, but it would be wrong for a branch of the federal

government to try that. It really should anger enough in

this state to use force to keep it from happening. Even

though a law is on the books doesn't make it constitutional.

It is something that needs to be corrected.

Has that stopped them before? Nope. I'll stand my ground on saying the TFFA is worthless until either a) the state has the balls to stand behind it, or it's tested and found to be a viable law.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's probably worthless. I wasn't saying that, but I was

proposing a scenario that could happen with the right

provocation. I think it should have gone a lot farther.

I wasn't disagreeing at all with you.

Edited March 9, 2010 by 6.8 AR
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[Motasyco]

No. But it should be.

Fixed that for you.

[notananti]

Everyone seems to think the ATF is bad guy. I don't get it. Their job is often misunderstood. I've only met one ATF agent that was anti-gun and it was a wack job female out in AZ. According to the agents that worked with her they couldn't stand her and she does not represent the norm in the agency. I'm in law enforcement and work with the ATF. They aren't after law abiding citizens' guns. In fact, all the ones I've met are mostly pro-gun. Some wished the NFA laws were re-considered because a lot of them make no sense. They usually only go after the real thugs (i.e. gang members, straw purchasers for gang members, drug dealers, multple convicted violent felons, etc). Yeah you may read about some 70 yr old going to jail for dealing without a license but guess what? That 70 yr old probably had a bunch of guns turn up in crimes and was warned to stop dealing without a license. Most agents I know were former police officers that got sick of watching the dangerous, multiple convicted violent felons get slapped on the wrist by the "state" because of "overcrowding bs" only to be allowed to victimize some more. With a fed charge, they don't get out for a long time.

The US Attorneys Office for the various districts aren't going to waist their time going after cases that don't merit federal prosecution. Sometimes to the public when you read about a case it looks that way but there is always more to the story than what you can read about in the paper. A lot of federal cases are under seal and the information that gets out is limited.

I know the point of this thread and others like it is to argue states rights but I don't get the ATF bashing all the time. A lot of them are really good people doing a hard job.

I usually try to refrain mentioning that I'm in law enforcement because I only come on here to enjoy my hobby just like all of you. However, I have a hard time sitting back while good friends of mine are being called "thugs."

Edited March 9, 2010 by notananti

[notananti]

Fixed that for you.

How about just leaving it the way I posted? I'm not speaking for you. I was answering a question.

[Smith]

Everyone seems to think the ATF is bad guy. I don't get it. Their job is often misunderstood. I've only met one ATF agent that was anti-gun and it was a wack job female out in AZ. According to the agents that worked with her they couldn't stand her and she does not represent the norm in the agency. I'm in law enforcement and work with the ATF. They aren't after law abiding citizens' guns. In fact, all the ones I've met are mostly pro-gun. Some wished the NFA laws were re-considered because a lot of them make no sense. They usually only go after the real thugs (i.e. gang members, straw purchasers for gang members, drug dealers, multple convicted violent felons, etc). Yeah you may read about some 70 yr old going to jail for dealing without a license but guess what? That 70 yr old probably had a bunch of guns turn up in crimes and was warned to stop dealing without a license. Most agents I know were former police officers that got sick of watching the dangerous, multiple convicted violent felons get slapped on the wrist by the "state" because of "overcrowding bs" only to be allowed to victimize some more. With a fed charge, they don't get out for a long time.

The US Attorneys Office for the various districts aren't going to waist their time going after cases that don't merit federal prosecution. Sometimes to the public when you read about a case it looks that way but there is always more to the story than what you can read about in the paper. A lot of federal cases are under seal and the information that gets out is limited.

I know the point of this thread and others like it is to argue states rights but I don't get the ATF bashing all the time. A lot of them are really good people doing a hard job.

I usually try to refrain mentioning that I'm in law enforcement because I only come on here to enjoy my hobby just like all of you. However, I have a hard time sitting back while good friends of mine are being called "thugs."

I don't think you understand. The ATF is considered the "bad guy" because they are the entity that is charged with enforcing unconstitutional laws. As such how they operate flies in the face of our sensibilities as Americans living under the constitution. Not everything they do falls under this thought, but when it comes to guns and the 2a it very much does. Kinda like the American Gestapo - the IRS.

[1gewehr]

They usually only go after the real thugs (i.e. gang members, straw purchasers for gang members, drug dealers, multple convicted violent felons, etc). Yeah you may read about some 70 yr old going to jail for dealing without a license but guess what? That 70 yr old probably had a bunch of guns turn up in crimes and was warned to stop dealing without a license. ...

The US Attorneys Office for the various districts aren't going to waist their time going after cases that don't merit federal prosecution. ...

I know the point of this thread and others like it is to argue states rights but I don't get the ATF bashing all the time. A lot of them are really good people doing a hard job. ...

However, I have a hard time sitting back while good friends of mine are being called "thugs."

ATF as an agency has earned it's reputation for being 'thugs'. I'm not going to detail every event. But try looking here:

Learn about ATF abuse here.

While it's true that every agency is going to have a few 'bad apples', ATF has more than it's share. If you really want to get into the reason the Firearms division is held in such low esteem, you need only look at their persecution of firearms owners. Waco and Ruby Ridge were both ATF operations that killed people over the supposed non-payment of a $200 tax. As for machine gun cases, ATF has variously ruled that shoe-laces, steel pipe, paperclips, a nail, a hole, and duct tape are 'machine guns'. They have sent otherwise law-abiding people to jail for trying to comply with the law, malfunctioning AR15s, 'constructive possession' (you MIGHT be able to make a MG with what you have in your garage), and a host of other acts that defy common sense.

In the past, agents have routinely lied about the accuracy of the National Firearms Registry, refused to set ANY standards for testing, refused to allow expert witnesses for the defense, and given false testimony in court.

In recent years, some progress has been made in working with ATF. The National Firearms Act Trade & Collectors Association (NFATCA.org) has helped ATF compile a NFA Handbook which explains ATF processes and procedures in detail.

I have hope that ATF will continue to try to work WITH firearms owners and enthusiasts rather than just as prosecutors. But they have a terrible and bloody past to deal with.

[Guest 1010011010]

They aren't after law abiding citizens' guns. In fact, all the ones I've met are mostly pro-gun. Some wished the NFA laws were re-considered because a lot of them make no sense. They usually only go after the real thugs (i.e. gang members, straw purchasers for gang members, drug dealers, multple convicted violent felons, etc).

If the problem with the ATF is that they enforce the law in an arbitrary and capricious manner, this sort of defense is not going to be very persuasive.

If "law abiding citizens" are breaking the law, the ATF should go after them. And the rights of "gang members" deserve just as much respect as yours or mine.

[broylz]

wasnt this already declared to be a bad law? cant remember the correct terminology right now.

if it does go through, id be looking for a suppressor manufacturer in the state

[DaveTN]

There won’t be any showdowns between cops at the Tennessee border; feds will come and go as they please. Although that would make a great movie wouldn’t it?

The ATF has issued a statement that they will continue business as usual; they will take you into custody if you violate Federal weapons laws. Until there is a court ruling; the state can’t stop that from happening.

if it does go through, id be looking for a suppressor manufacturer in the state

And that is the problem. You need a manufacturer or a dealer to sell you the item. And the minute the ATF has evidence that happened; the Manufacturer/Dealer will be arrested and all firearms components in question will be seized. No FFL holder is going to do it. Their license would be gone no matter how the court ruled.

This isn’t even a gun issue. It’s a commerce clause issue and the people that passed this legislation have no intent on allowing you to be able to buy the items in question.