Do Americans still have the guts...

[Guest Satt]

I have been thinking about how the founders of this great country had the guts to stand up to England and how the 2nd ammendment was intended to keep the government at bay. I respect that. My question is do we as Americans still have the guts or even the ability to stand up and take back our freedoms if it ever comes to that. All I hear about in the news is how the government is slowly chipping away at the Constitution and how people like CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) have made it no secret they plan to one day replace this republic with an Islamic state. There are terrorist training camps on privately owned land in our own country for crying out loud!!! Back to my question though, if the government ever gets too corrupt and starts inhibiting our religious and personal freedoms...do you think the people in this country still have what it takes to take up arms and take our country and our way of life back on our own soil?

[Guest Satt]

No, I am not advocating taking over the government...

[Guest bkelm18]

No, IMO most Americans do not have the guts to stand up for their rights.

[Guest canynracer]

ditto....

answer = NO

[Guest Satt]

I have to agree. I think that no matter how much messed up legislation is passed and how much we are trampled on...what scares me the most is that we as Americans have lost our collective free spirit. I think a lot of people share the same feeling much of the time that America is unfortunately about to see its end. I still feel America is a great country. I just feel our time of greatness may be seeing it's demise. I have been around most of the world and seen the poverty and torture in some countries. But one thing I do see in other countries is a better sense of who they are and pride in their countries. This was especially true when I was in the Middle East. They truly believe the world is their's for the taking.

Foriegn confidence > American spirit ...This is what scares me.

[Guest 2HOW]

When time comes the military will be the ones to take control. They are the only body able to logistically do this, also they are the only body that has deep roots of tradition and honor in this country. DUTY,HONOR,COUNTRY. Other than that I see it as a free for all. TOUJOURS PRET Oh, by the way ,there is a little thing called VOTING these bastages out of office.

[Guest dotsun]

Back to my question though, if the government ever gets too corrupt and starts inhibiting our religious and personal freedoms...

Um, this has already occurred without a shot being fired or a politician being hanged.

[The Rabbi]

There is a thread like this on every gun board I've seen. It is usually the opportunity for keyboard kommandos to sound off about:

-how gutless Americans are today.

-how our rights are being destroyed.

-how when "they" come for my guns I'm gonna do whatever it takes (wink-wink).

I guess such threads make people feel virtuous.

Really a little historical perspective would be in order.

What can you not do today you could have done 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 40 years ago? 100 years ago? Yeah, yeah National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act. Okay. Name more.

People have more freedom and more opportunity to express it today than ever in my lifetime (starting early 1960s). I can remember when many books were banned. People smuggled Lady Chatterly's Lover in from England and Canada. Today you can say and do pretty much anything and broadcast the whole mess on YouTube or whatever.

Gimmeabreak.

[Guest bkelm18]

No one said Americans are gutless or that our rights are being trampled as we speak. We aren't speaking of our freedoms at this very moment. We're saying that if and when the gov't becomes too corrupt and powerful, would we stand up against it? Again, it's a "What if" question. And like I said, if that were to happen, I don't believe the majority of us would stand up against it.

[towerclimber37]

I believe that you young fellas have a LOT of experience to gain.

Thats not a bad thing...and that question came to me when I was younger...I sat down, took a look at it and then decided that what ever comes, *I* will be prepared. thats where it all starts.

Sun Tzu said that the acme of a great soldier is NOT the one that wins every battle, but the one who wins a battle without drawing his sword.

Courage is NOT using force when its so readily available, but using the means we have been provided, to resolve the issues that we have.

as for guts...yes, I believe there are many of us that DO have courage. we're all not out to reshape the land in the form of the original constitution though.

you know what? let em have training camps...lets see if their training is worth a damn. heh.

Guts. after we were attacked on 9/11 within 3 months we invaded 2 countries, routing the inhabitants and killing terrorists. this was a government WE voted in.

If it comes to personal courage. I think so. we just don't always run straight at a problem like you expect

if you think that america doesn't still have guts...go try and disarm rabbi ...

you'd do better to drink a gallon of gas and pee on a bonfire.

[Guest canynracer]

There is a thread like this on every gun board I've seen. It is usually the opportunity for keyboard kommandos to sound off about:

-how gutless Americans are today.

-how our rights are being destroyed.

-how when "they" come for my guns I'm gonna do whatever it takes (wink-wink).

I guess such threads make people feel virtuous.

Really a little historical perspective would be in order.

What can you not do today you could have done 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 40 years ago? 100 years ago? Yeah, yeah National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act. Okay. Name more.

People have more freedom and more opportunity to express it today than ever in my lifetime (starting early 1960s). I can remember when many books were banned. People smuggled Lady Chatterly's Lover in from England and Canada. Today you can say and do pretty much anything and broadcast the whole mess on YouTube or whatever.

Gimmeabreak.

You make great points, I am not saying no just because of guns...I must have misread the op....I was thinking more along the lines of our freedom already being "gone" and standing up to a goverment...like in Iraq..they just stayed and "took" the abuse by Sadaam

I dont think we are anywhere near that...I guess I just misread...

[saintsfanbrian]

The problem is that while we may have a lot more freedom than we did 20/30/40 years ago, we also have a lot more laws that are intrusive and should never have been put in place. To many Americans are willing to sit idly by while their freedoms are eroded. I am not talking about yelling fire in a crowded theater, but what happens if you get pulled over for not having a seat belt on? You get a ticket and while that is merely an annoyance, since when did the government have the right to tell you what you can do in your own car? As long as you weren't hurting anyone else, why can't you drive without a seatbelt?

We gradually allow the government to whittle away at our free thought. Political Correctness anyone? What about hate crimes. There was a boy suspended from school for hate speech because he commented about brown skinned people.

As far as I am concerned, as long as you are not infringing on my right to life/liberty and the pursuit of happiness, good on ya, do what you want.

[Branket]

If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will jump out, if you put a frog in a pot of cold water and turn the heat up gradually he will be boiled to death without moving.

America is being slowly boiled to death and the majority of people fail to see what is happening. It's not a question of being gutless because the changes are made so slowly that most people can't see the big picture. Are the majority of Americans gutless? No. Are they unaware of their situation? Yes.

[Guest dotsun]

There is a thread like this on every gun board I've seen. It is usually the opportunity for keyboard kommandos to sound off about:

-how gutless Americans are today.

-how our rights are being destroyed.

-how when "they" come for my guns I'm gonna do whatever it takes (wink-wink).

I guess such threads make people feel virtuous.

Really a little historical perspective would be in order.

What can you not do today you could have done 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 40 years ago? 100 years ago? Yeah, yeah National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act. Okay. Name more.

People have more freedom and more opportunity to express it today than ever in my lifetime (starting early 1960s). I can remember when many books were banned. People smuggled Lady Chatterly's Lover in from England and Canada. Today you can say and do pretty much anything and broadcast the whole mess on YouTube or whatever.

Gimmeabreak.

I agree about the former, but strongly disagree about your latter argument. Sure your first amendment rights are still intact, that is unless you say something racist and someone considers it hate speech. Saints already mentioned Seat Belt laws. Let's say I want to fly down to Cancun, oh wait, now I need a passport. Not to mention that I can't take toe nail clippers on the plane as I might use those as a weapon.

God forbid if you want to smoke in a restaurant, that's pretty much gone. Tennessee law even prevents me from opening an establishment on my own property to cater specifically to that group of people. I can no longer order a gun by mail. The government tells me what I can put in my body and when. Need I go on?

If you insist, then I will. The government also tells me that to do a number of jobs I must now have a license. Let's see, maybe I would like to open a barber shop, nope I have to be certified by the state lest I harm someone's hair. God knows you can't have people running around willie nillie giving perms for money, there'd be panic in the streets!

I have to have a permit to build on my own property, and make damn sure the government inspector approves of my carport. If Walmart wants my land, then that's much more important for the community and my property (new carport and all) is seized for the village.

Yeah I guess you're right Rabbi, nothing's changed. Oh, wait there's also the fact that I took the Hunter Safety Course in middle school. We even went out back on school property and qualified with REAL GUNS in SCHOOL. OMG, don't even draw a picture of a gun in school now or out ya go, zero tolerance ya know!

[Guest Phantom6]

I was going to bring up the guns at school thing myself.

• 36 years ago we'd show up at school with our shotguns and rifles in our cars because we were either coming from the field or going out as soon as school let out. Today a child at school that draws a picture of a stick figure with a gun is immediately yanked from school due to zero tolerance regulations, sent into intensive counseling, carted off to a "school for troubled youth" and will forevermore have a record as one that may just go off at any time.
  
• 30+ years ago, if you had a friend at school that was going through a hard time or leaving town and you were not likely to see them again you gave 'em a hug and wished them well but today a girl is suspended for giving a friend that is moving out of town a hug as they leave school for the last time together.
  
• 45 years ago I could ride my bike down the street with my single shot .22/.410 combo slung across my handlebars and no one thought a thing about it. Today, 911 would be jammed with "man (kid) with a gun" calls.
  
• Don't anyone tie a loop with 13 knots in it or you will be a branded a racist and charged with a hate crime.
  
• In a number of states there is a growing movement to make spanking your child a crime. We already have laws for abuse. Enforce those. Don't interfear with how I raise my child.
  
• Now the govt. is even getting ready to pass laws limiting the amount of sodium that will be allowed in food. My freakin' pretzels are gonna suck due to the food and drug administration's regulations.

Seat belt and helment laws? Hey, I'm smart enough to wear a seatbelt. Been wearin' 'em since I was about 6 'cause my dad always told me that they put 'em in race cars for a reason. Are they comfortable? Not necessarily but breathing air and the touch of my wife's hand sure is. If somebody doesn't want to wear them, fine but by default they should be considered DNR's and neither private nor public insurance should be responsible for their medical care in accidents where damage was done due to lack of wearing them. There you go. You just eliminated the "causing the rising cost of insurance" arguement. Same goes for brain buckets on bikes. But no. We have this "nanny state" that must take away our freedom in order to protect us from ourselves. Hogwash! It gets worse every year. Defend my life and livelyhood from enemies both foreign and domestic and allow me have the opportunity to work and earn a good living but do no more for me.

Do we have the guts to stop this train wreck? I think so. But it takes action on each and everyone's part because if we don't, one of these days we will become so oppressed that there will be an uprising and the backlash is going to be HORRENDOUS.

Edit: Oh yeah. One more thing. If you are here illegally then you are ILLEGAL! That's Illégal, Ilegal, Illegale, Olaglig, Gesetzwidrig, Nielegalny,незаконный, Yasadışı. Get the *%@# out of my country until you can learn to act right! Once you do, then you are welcome to come back and try again...... LEGALLY. Thank you.

[Guest Phantom6]

If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will jump out, if you put a frog in a pot of cold water and turn the heat up gradually he will be boiled to death without moving.

America is being slowly boiled to death and the majority of people fail to see what is happening. It's not a question of being gutless because the changes are made so slowly that most people can't see the big picture. Are the majority of Americans gutless? No. Are they unaware of their situation? Yes.

What he said!

[saintsfanbrian]

What Phantom said about the horrendous part.

[fury2neon]

I believe that you young fellas have a LOT of experience to gain.

Thats not a bad thing...and that question came to me when I was younger...I sat down, took a look at it and then decided that what ever comes, *I* will be prepared. thats where it all starts.

Sun Tzu said that the acme of a great soldier is NOT the one that wins every battle, but the one who wins a battle without drawing his sword.

Courage is NOT using force when its so readily available, but using the means we have been provided, to resolve the issues that we have.

as for guts...yes, I believe there are many of us that DO have courage. we're all not out to reshape the land in the form of the original constitution though.

you know what? let em have training camps...lets see if their training is worth a damn. heh.

Guts. after we were attacked on 9/11 within 3 months we invaded 2 countries, routing the inhabitants and killing terrorists. this was a government WE voted in.

If it comes to personal courage. I think so. we just don't always run straight at a problem like you expect

if you think that america doesn't still have guts...go try and disarm rabbi ...

you'd do better to drink a gallon of gas and pee on a bonfire.

+1 & great Sun Tzu quote!

[Guest bulletproof]

What Phantom said.

And:

I'm probably older than most of you guys. I still remember all the boys (and a few girls) used to take their pocketknives to school to show them off and to play with them at recess. That was in the 3rd grade and I was about 10 then. The teachers all knew and I guess they approved because no one ever said anything.

When I was about 14 I used to bicycle down the road to go hunting with either my 410 or 22 slung across my back or on the handlebars. Nobody ever said anything.

When I was 18 in 1965 I took a shotgun to school one morning so it could be used in a school play. Nobody ever said anything except to thank me for bringing it.

How times have changed.

[towerclimber37]

I also agree with brankets' post.

very well put!

[Guest GregRN]

Many Americans still have the guts. However, the ones with the guts (or good sense) don't usually have the means, thanks to the ones without the guts. How many can actually gather enough money to fight a battle in court, or elsewhere, with any large entity, including the government? If more people had the good sense to vote for freedoms, instead of blindly following a party, we would be safe with our freedoms, and everyone would have a voice. But the majority only want to vote for what they think they will get from the government once Candidate D is elected. Which, in turn takes more tax dollars away, and therefore, takes more of the resources away from the people with guts and good sense...

Okay, rant stopped.

[molonlabetn]

I believe that there are some still who have the 'guts'... But the majority do not. The majority doesn't even care... they are happily boiling away.

Put simply, the non-violent avenues of changing laws and restoring freedom are still available... when they finally are not, then it will be necessary for the few who are willing to fight to do so. I hope that day never comes.

[Marswolf]

I think every generation becomes a bit more gutless than the last. I don't know that it is cowardice so much as a desire to have government do things for you that you could do for yourself.

People want Social Security and Medicare, even if it means they actually pay for it themselves in taxes and also in loss of freedom.

I think we have to be really gutless to allow our legislature to pass do-gooder laws like the seatbelt laws and not vote the slime out of office.

[The Rabbi]

I think every generation becomes a bit more gutless than the last. I don't know that it is cowardice so much as a desire to have government do things for you that you could do for yourself.

People want Social Security and Medicare, even if it means they actually pay for it themselves in taxes and also in loss of freedom.

I think we have to be really gutless to allow our legislature to pass do-gooder laws like the seatbelt laws and not vote the slime out of office.

The point about each generation is unsubstantiated. The Post WW1 generation was excoriated as soft and pleasure seeking. So was the post Civil War generation, aka the Gilded Age.

Polls show that very few people believe Social Security will pay out when they retire. It is a case of a very interested few outshouting the slightly interested many.

I do not know that one can characterize a seat belt law as a do-gooder. I have not seen figures on whether instituting the law actually reduced fatalities. That would be key to deciding how to characterize it.

[Marswolf]

Maybe busy-body is a better term than do-gooder.