Pulled my weapon for the first time.Opinions?

[JayC]

While I agree Dave opening fire in a residential neighborhood should be avoided at all costs... I have to disagree with your assessment of the situation.

Vehicle is moving off road through your yard, on a path that appears to hit your or a loved one... That seems to meet all the requirements for a justified shooting... You can have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm (trucks hitting you can and do kill all the time)...

I'll point out I've seen a number of cases in TN where Police Officers have charged a drunk driver with Assault with a Deadly Weapon when they've been clipped on the side of the road by a vehicle... I can also point to a number of cases where police officers have opened fire on a vehicle that is 'bearing down' on them or another officer and to the best of me recollection most if not all of those cases were ruled justified shootings.

I'm with you on how it's not a good idea... but a vehicle is a deadly weapon when it's unlawfully moving directly at you.

Having a weapon at low ready in this situation was the right call... It could have very well gone south very quickly, the extra time might have come in handy if it had.

Based on what you described you weren’t justified in the use of deadly force and even if you were its doubtful that you had the time. Open fire on a truck in a residential area?... I don’t think so.

No one will really care if you drew the weapon; it makes no difference (unless you take it to the level of aggravated assault). If the threat is real you need to have a gun in your hand; not in your holster. But it’s important that you know when to fire.

I see these kinds of statements all the time like they are some kind of justification for what you are doing. I wish some could see some of the shooting cases I have responded to. If you are in a bad shoot you may not have to worry about your girlfriend; Jody will probably be taking care of her by the time you get out. Same thing with protecting families; you have seriously let your family down if you have to go spend time in jail because you didn’t know, or didn’t understand the deadly force laws of your state.

Think about this….. People that have days to think about what you do in seconds will decide if you acted properly and some of them desperately want to believe that there were alternatives to taking a life.

I would have drawn my weapon. And if someone was trying to run me down I would have no qualms about killing them if I thought I could safely get a shot off. But that does not sound like what was happening at your house.

And as a former Police Officer I will tell you this…. ALWAYS call the cops. The first caller is the complainant; the person that didn’t call is the suspect.

[Almond27]

This is why TGO is my favoritist site on the internut!

TGO'ers loves debatin.

[JayC]

15 seconds... that is how long the incident lasted according to Jack...

Not sure rushing everybody in across the front yard while a truck is bearing down on your or your spouse is really something I'd be able to do.

Somebody pulls into my driveway seconds after I get home at night and block me in, then come tearing towards my spouse through the middle of my yard... I'm going to assume said truck and the people in it are up to no good until they prove otherwise.

Also, running from the cover of the vehicle across an open yard, trying to unlock a door, and get everybody inside, vs using the vehicle for cover until you can assess what the driver of the truck is up to seems like staying put might not have been such a bad idea.

First off - your first reaction should have been to get you and your girlfriend out of the way. Standing there drawing a weapon to fire at a moving vehicle is not the smartest thing in the book in my opinion.

Once you were safely out of the way - by all means - draw the weapon and wait to see what they do next.

Car stops and they get out - weapon stays ready until their intentions are known. They keep going - weapon goes back to holster and the police are called.

Second - it is always easy to armchair quarterback several days after the fact when we are not in the situation.

Rule of thumb for me is this - everyone who should have walked away without a scratch. The police were notified so one of your neighbors couldn't scream crazy man with a gun and you even have a report should you need it for insurance if enough damage was done.

[Guest trigem]

Picture this!

Girl is caught between her vehicle and the truck, no place to run:tinfoil:

Boy friend is on far side of car, can't easily get to her, men jump out and

take her, you do nothing, can't make up your mind if you can legally do that:cool: so you just call police and they take the report

Girl friend is found raped and murdered:rolleyes: next day, you think, maybe I should have drawn weapon and protected her.....

Far fetched, not really, just in case you haven't noticed, this world is getting really dangerous

I would have been in low ready making plans on bullet placement if needed

[Guest jackdm3]

TGO'ers loves debatin.

I was really commenting on how once or twice a week we find a REAL story to sink our teeth into. Get yo' knowledge on! Otherwise we just show our new weapons and cut up. There's only so much cuttin' up a person can take in a week and the toys don't differ too greatly.

And yes. We got alot of master-debators here!

[RobD]

I would have drawn in that situation. I would never second guess your gut. Thats how you wind up dead.

[Guest Patty]

Picture this!

Girl is caught between her vehicle and the truck, no place to run:tinfoil:

Boy friend is on far side of car, can't easily get to her, men jump out and

take her, you do nothing, can't make up your mind if you can legally do that:cool: so you just call police and they take the report

Girl friend is found raped and murdered:rolleyes: next day, you think, maybe I should have drawn weapon and protected her.....

Far fetched, not really, just in case you haven't noticed, this world is getting really dangerous

I would have been in low ready making plans on bullet placement if needed

Or picture this: Young kid out joy riding with his girlfriend, dog runs in front of them, he hits the yard to avoid the dog, neighbor panics, open fires killing them both, young driver slams into neighbors girl friend, making her a cripple for the rest of her life. Neighbor ends up in prison after jury finds him guilty of murder.

[Guest trigem]

Or picture this: Young kid out joy riding with his girlfriend, dog runs in front of them, he hits the yard to avoid the dog, neighbor panics, open fires killing them both, young driver slams into neighbors girl friend, making her a cripple for the rest of her life. Neighbor ends up in prison after jury finds him guilty of murder.

Sorry, that doesn't fit his time or story:popcorn:

[Guest Patty]

Sorry, that doesn't fit his time or story:popcorn:

Its my story, I will make it up anyway I want. lol

[Lumber_Jack]

Its my story, I will make it up anyway I want. lol

I think the point is that nobody opened fire or even pointed the gun at anyone. The OP was simply ready. So if someone simply lost control and drove through the yard he can't know that. Nobody has ever been killed from drawing a gun, only buy pulling the trigger

[Oh Shoot]

It doesn't matter, It was your property, you can pull your weapon whenever you feel like it. Personally, I would have rushed everyone inside the house, retrieved an 11 shot 870 w/slug,buck,slug,buck....and if that dude kept coming towards me lit him up like a Christmas tree.

This seems to be a consistent viewpoint of yours.

Btw, you have an 11 shot 870?

Where can I get one?

- OS

[Guest jackdm3]

Is it 11 of the shorter rounds or longer tube and barrel?

[Guest tedbo]

Jack, going by what you first posted-

After 9:30 p.m.- it is dark and hard to see.

Pulled into your driveway quickly and real close to your girlfriend.

Me, I would have pulled my firearm AND pointed at the driver with my finger off the trigger. Coming directly at us would probably get them a bullet.

Coming at an angle,probably not. I wasn't there.

My reasoning-

1st,this is my home. Friends of mine don't drive that way as they know what to expect of my possible reply and butt chewing they will recieve.

2nd,a 3,000 lb vehicle is a deadly weapon.

3rd, there have been drive-by shootings and the guys in the truck could easily have a shotgun laying just on top of the door sill and shoot with out you seeing it because of the darkness.

4th,playing catch up after their initial shot(if there was to be one)puts you right behind the 8 ball and reaction time will more than likely keep you from ever beating them in the timing.

I would definitely be in a reasonable fear of my life and my girlfriends' if a truck got that close. Being tagged by a vehicle hurts,even if just winged.

There are too many stories in the news EVERY DAY about people getting shot and there is no rhyme or reason as to why they were picked.

Can we say gang initiations?

That would be my first thought.

Second thought would be some guys knew her from work or just saw her in town and wanted to get "real friendly".

Any reasonable person would see their actions as you being in fear of your life.

I think this would meet the criteria. I think the officer was wrong on this one.

Everyone got safe and no one got any new orifices so I think a job well done.

This would be a great time for the two of you to start planning some "what ifs?"

[Guest jackdm3]

[Jack]

Picture this!

Girl is caught between her vehicle and the truck, no place to run:tinfoil:

Boy friend is on far side of car, can't easily get to her

Stated as if you where there. I was on the far side, she was between the car and the truck. And the scenario your decscribed was running through my head,minus her getting snatched and raped. I would have shot if they made any attempt on her. I now know that I will act before morality kicks in. If I had shot at them it would have been stopping a threat,not taking a life. It wasnt till after the incident did I even think of them as humans.

I live in a commercial area and most of the business around me are closed by 8:30 minus the beer and tobacco store in that adjacent lot they drove through. Im not in some family neighborhood.Still I have never felt this area unsafe till that night.

[Jack]

Jack, going by what you first posted-

There are too many stories in the news EVERY DAY about people getting shot and there is no rhyme or reason as to why they were picked.

Can we say gang initiations?

That would be my first thought.

Second thought would be some guys knew her from work or just saw her in town and wanted to get "real freindly"

I thought of this today, I normally do work late and its not uncommon for me to come home at one,two,or even three in the morning. It is uncommon for me to have the day off on monday. We were in her car, and it was not before they saw me or my action before they decided to change course. She was out of the car before me. Needless to say, she has finally decided to take the time at the DMV to get the ball rolling. She passed her test a month ago.

[Erik88]

Police are pretty much useless. I think you handled yourself fine untill you called the police. Did that help you in any way?

Wow, really? Imagine what the U.S would be like if you didn't have LEO's...

[Guest CajunKen]

In our Handgun Carry Class, we were taught that you are justified in threatening or using force against another person if you have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. Three factors to consider are 1. Intent, 2. Capability, 3. Opportunity. If a vehicle leaves the road and heads for you at a high rate of speed you have to assume that the driver of that vehicle intends to do bodily harm to you, or in this case your girlfriend. He certainly had the capability and the opportunity, so I think you were justified in drawing your weapon.

[gregintenn]

Wow, really? Imagine what the U.S would be like if you didn't have LEO's...

If everyone was like me, I'd say we;d get along all right, but it would be a dull world! I realize we have to have them, but I personally have little use for them, try to avoid them, and can think of very few instances why I'd call them. I guess you have to if you are filing an insurance claim or have an auto accident. I would never call them because someone was driving in my yard. I'd handle it myself.

[Guest Jamie]

...I'd handle it myself.

And probably end up having someone else call them on you.

The OP did fine in calling the police... It at least let them know what the real problem was, if one of the neighbors had called them with a "man with a gun" report. It also gives them a previous report to go on, if the same sort of event is reported elsewhere at some other time.

Seriously, you keep spewing this anti-LEO stuff all over the internet, and it's eventually gonna bite you in the butt.

J.

[saintsfanbrian]

15 seconds... that is how long the incident lasted according to Jack...

Not sure rushing everybody in across the front yard while a truck is bearing down on your or your spouse is really something I'd be able to do.

Somebody pulls into my driveway seconds after I get home at night and block me in, then come tearing towards my spouse through the middle of my yard... I'm going to assume said truck and the people in it are up to no good until they prove otherwise.

Also, running from the cover of the vehicle across an open yard, trying to unlock a door, and get everybody inside, vs using the vehicle for cover until you can assess what the driver of the truck is up to seems like staying put might not have been such a bad idea.

JayC -

Can you please tell me where I said to run to the open?

First off - your first reaction should have been to get you and your girlfriend out of the way. Standing there drawing a weapon to fire at a moving vehicle is not the smartest thing in the book in my opinion.

Once you were safely out of the way - by all means - draw the weapon and wait to see what they do next.

Car stops and they get out - weapon stays ready until their intentions are known. They keep going - weapon goes back to holster and the police are called.

Second - it is always easy to armchair quarterback several days after the fact when we are not in the situation.

Rule of thumb for me is this - everyone who should have walked away without a scratch. The police were notified so one of your neighbors couldn't scream crazy man with a gun and you even have a report should you need it for insurance if enough damage was done.

I stated that you should get yourself and your girlfriend out of the way.

Get back in said vehicle if necessary and lock the doors. You are much safer should they decide to RAM you.

They pulled in and moved immediately from the side of the vehicle across the yard. Again, not much time to react but they were no longer behind you. Getting back in the car and getting going is a smarter thing to do.

Moving from the cover of a vehicle? Sorry - but when one car is the target of another car there isn't "safe" cover behind first said car.

Covering the ground from the car to the house and unlocking the door isn't a viable option either but getting behind something more substantial such as said house would be.

You are behind the car girlfriend is in front of the car - get girlfriend from in front of the car should be both or your primary concern. You don't get girlfriend from in front of the car and other car comes in and smashes your car where girlfriend was standing - she is in serious injury or dead - you unholstered your weapon instead of helping her - how you gonna feel.

Again - this all happened in 15 seconds according to the OP.

We were not there. We can only guess what we would have done.

This is why we ALL need more training.

[Guest broncobuddha]

People...... R E A D.

No where in the OP's post did he ever say that he A) aimed his weapon at anyone or B)was going to shoot at a moving vehicle (without further provocation)

He drew his weapon because he felt in his gut that a threat had presented itself. He kept his weapon at the ready until the threat either escalated or disappeared. Luckily, it was the latter. End of story.

[Guest marionandjohn]

Ok I have not had time to read the ENTIRE thread but I think drawing into a low and ready is reasonible but and this is IMHO my firearm is my last and I mean LAST resort even if on my own property (except in my house) and if there is a truck/vehicle moving towards me and my loved ones, first initial instinc is self and family preservation. Even if i was to shoot the driver with a double tap to his head I still have to get out of the way so what was the point of shooting him except revenge for whats about to happen. I do think you would have a very hard time justifying shooting a vehicle moving towards you to a jury and unless you have "magical bullets" that stop a vehicle instantly I see no point.

Would I have done the same as the OP did? probally but I would hope (havent been there) that I would be moving out of the way or to push loved ones out of the way first and foremost. once we were out of the direct line of the truck drawing and taking a defensive position if they jump out would be #1 but low and ready would be in good. I understand why he drew to the low and ready and think it was a good idea and I even agree with reporting it, for the fact that if the "Crazy" called 911 and said some guy in his driveway just drew and pointed his gun at me so I ducked and ended up running into his yard, then I have the call and hopfully the benefit of doubt.

[DaveTN]

People...... R E A D.

Yes... RIF

Id like to hear some opinions on my actions.

[Guest Ranger Rick]

I pulled my weapon for the first time tonight. Now, after everything has calmed down, I'm reflecting upon my actions, and would like outside opinions.

.............

Id like to hear some opinions on my actions.

Jack... relax. You reacted very well IMHO on two counts. You reacted to a threat (got you gun out in a ready), but realized you did not need to use it. I would have been much more concerned for you if you had wanted to unholster your gun and froze instead!

I had an experience in a Wally world parking lot where (even with my paying attention) a person surprised me. I got back to my F150, looked around-noticed no one, opened my door and started to get in. Somehow a begger guy had gotten to within about 6 feet of me with my back turned. Heard the footsteps. As I turned to look... my left hand came out to block him, right hand went to my side arm grip and I screamed... "STOP, go away!!!":eek: I scared him and me. He ran off. I got in my truck for a 10 minute wait for my adrenaline high to stop. Also wondered where my reaction had come from... cause I had not practiced it.

My after action self summary was that I was pleased with my reaction. I got myself to a point that if things had continued to escalate (he had gotten any closer)... I could have protected myself. Of course not letting him sneak up on me would have been better to start with. In a parking lot... it's not that easy because of all the vehicles that people can hide behind. I now walk around both sides of my truck before getting in... just to make sure.

You never know... having your gun out might have made a difference in what the jerks were going to do too. Can't depend on that. But, I would not discount it either.

Doesn't it make you feel good that you could have protected yourself and your girl if you have had too? There is such freedom in that!!