"Israeli Carry" Demonstrated

[towerclimber37]

*sigh*

I agree with the other guys on this one Rabbi. Hero Gear actually agreed with you!

that IS an interesting way to carry. I don't do it (as probably the majority of the other folks here don't do it either).

I also recognize that with a large body of people (like the shanghi police dept and the IDF) this makes sense when dealing with a hodge podge of different weapons.

It has its limitations, like every method of carry. Lets all be nice here!

[Guest bluecanary25]

Thank you Rabbi, for the oppotunity to see this technique.

Depending on my carry piece, I sometimes do not have a chambered round.

Seeing this method in pics, IS educational FOR ME. Had not concidered turning the gun sideways to rack, figured that was ghetto styling. Makes sense, as is easier for my weak hand to grasp the gun, again, FOR ME.

I am not schooled in handgun defense, no police/military training. No credentials to say what is good, bad or F***in' killer technique dude!

But I am trying to learn things that relate to being a responsible and safety concious armed citizen. Ya'll getting too serious in this thread. Testoserone levels approaching teen concentrations.

Have enjoyed this forum for the information I can relate to.

I hope to learn more from better trained and experienced members of this forum. I am still experimenting on what WORKS FOR ME......

I see no need or good in a pissing contest within this forum.... $0.02

PS. A personal observation from life: Only a boy needs to prove he is a man.

YMMV

[KahrMan]

Well said bluecanary25!

[Guest Phantom6]

Mr. The Rabbi, you seem to be an excitable type. Take a chill pill dude. It seems that the bunching of your shorts is affecting your ability to comprehend. Maybe it was my fault. I was prettysure that I was clear but perhaps not. I was quite simply expressing an opinion that is based on the understanding that most of us will never run into the situations that demanded this technique. I said nothing about throwing it out the window completely. This technique is simply a tool that overcomes a handicap and one that everyone that cares about their self defense with a handgun should be aware of practice and keep in their bag-o-tools but as far as being the only tool at your disposal, that is what I call silly or to use your word, foolish considering average circumstances we are faced with here.

[The Rabbi posted: Ignorant and foolish about covers it. Ignorant because you've gone away from seeing this without learning anything as a result. Foolish because you've failed to see the genius in the method.]

You are right, I have learned nothing from your glorification of this technique as I learned that technique years ago. As far as my being foolish- obviously you, being the clairvoyant that you are and able to see beyond the range of ordinary perception, can see into my mind and make that judgment. Because it really hurts that you should consider simple opinions expressed foolish and for your edification, it is my opinion that any technique that is used whether simple or complex, to overcome a handicap, be it physical, mental or mechanical and preserves human life is genius. As I said in my post however most of us will never be faced with that problem.

[The Rabbi went on to rant: Doubtless you will never find yourself in the situation of being given an unfamiliar pistol and told to put it into action right away. None of us will. But if you did you would be clueless what to do.]

I have. I did. I'm here to type this now.- 'Nuff said.

[Marswolf]

I'm glad the photos were posted. But I can tell you that Israeli carry is a lot different from Colombian carry.

And I really don't see any situation where I would carry that way. I could relate one situation many years ago in Panama in which Israeli carry would have resulted in my immediate demise.

But as an academic matter, I think the technique is interesting. Yes, I would say foolish - but interesting.

[Guest Mugster]

Are there any other countries/agencies which use this method of carry, as a rule? I seem to recall that the US military carried their 1911s in condition 3 during the world-wars... but I'm not sure if there was much specific training in how to most quickly bring it into action.

When I got out of the military, I couldn't figure out what these civilians were talking about in terms of condition X. As far as I knew then, there were 2 conditions. Round in the pipe and safety on or unloaded. There was no other condition.

I've heard that MP's carried 1911's in condition 3 and probably still do stateside, but that's a military police force, not a combat arm. I don't know what they do with the 92's.

The army also has a pretty high accidental discharge rate across the board, which as civilians, we cannot afford in terms of liability.

[dcloudy777]

It does seem to me that one could become proficient with the safety devices on any sort of pistol WAY faster than one could learn to be anywhere near fast with this method. You never need a pistol "in a minute"... long guns maybe, but in my experience, you need a handgun a few seconds ago....

DanO

[Guest Boomhower]

Attitudes that continually critic and chastise other poster's opinions will keep us all closed minded.....well, all but a very select few apparently. Attitude's like those only demonstrate what an a-hole that person is. Certainly not anywhere I'd recommend doing business, either.....See, now I'm acting just as childish.

Some of you guys on here really need to unplug from yourselves and step away from the computer. Debate the issue's not the people, their jobs, or their busineses.

[Mike.357]

I am not sure about the stance the guy has, maybe it is just the angle the pic was taken but his legs look kind of awkward.

I don't know about the empty chamber thing either, but that has been covered by several posters here. One in the pipe will work better for me being that I am old and slow.

I once saw a video of a US military person who was able to rack his handgun using the holster as he drew the weapon. Seemed he did it faster than most people can just plain old get their weapon out of a holster.

As for the bickering here, I find it entertaining usually.

[Guest 2HOW]

When the Israelis train in Krav Maga they train in condition 3, only they can pull, rack and shoot b4 most can even clear holster.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Most of us who actually do disarm and weapon retention training have incorporated the racking the slide(actually a tap/rack) as a torque profile action that we perform everytime we perform a disarm or once we regain full control in a retention situation if we have been struggling over posession of the gun.

Auto pistols have a nasty habit of getting out of battery when people are wrestling over them. We rack the slide to clear any possible malfunction and make sure it is functional.

But I don't know ANYONE in the US who teaches empty chamber carry. It is solution to a problem that we just do not face.

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

We all know the BEST carry method is "thug carry".

Turn the gun right-side up and pull the trigger as fast as possible.

No holster? No Problem.

Safety? Just gets in the way.

*Sarcasm Disclaimer*

[Guest nj.piney]

i carried a 1911 in the army in 1960 to 1963 as a machine gunner ,the guns were so old and worn out the armorer recommended no one carried with a round in the chamber. worn out but worked every time.

[Guest strelcevina]

[Guest canynracer]

they are pretty damn quick getting the slide back....dont even notice most of the time

[Magiccarpetrides]

Thats pretty cool. I could see how with practice that would be quite effective and safe.

[Guest strelcevina]

it is all about Muscle Memory.

"""When an active person repeatedly trains movement, often of the same activity, in an effort to stimulate the mind’s adaptation process, the outcome is to induce physiological changes which attain increased levels of accuracy through repetition."""

if you train like Israelis, it doesn't matter what type of semi auto you are using it will always be a same.

[Guest ACMM]

This method of carry was adopted SOLELY due to several high profile AD's. They carry handguns and rifles in the same condition because of it.

When I carry off body I use it sometimes, but I'd say it's rarely optimal.

Edited March 5, 2008 by ACMM

[Guest killemducks]

Man, you can find anything on YouTube!!

Please proceed!

[PaiMei]

Interesting you should post this...Todd G just posted some info on the Israeli Draw on his website... http://pistol-training.com/archives/183

http://pistol-training.com/archives/219