SBG or SBR

[Guest Kang]

Ok short barrle riffles and or guns. A friend of mine says he seen on the net that a non law enforcement and military can own a M4 with 10.5 barrle if they pay a $200 tax it will be legal to own is this true?

[Smith]

Yeah, anyone who can legally own a gun can get a SBR or even a full automatic if they get the proper paperwork and pay the tax to the ATF.

[Guest Kang]

Yeah, anyone who can legally own a gun can get a SBR or even a full automatic if they get the proper paperwork and pay the tax to the ATF.

oh ok i dont want a full auto but would love to have a 10.5 barrle m4. thanks for the replay.

[Guest bkelm18]

Best bet is to go to any dealer who sells NFA type stuff and have them explain the process to you.

[Smith]

Best bet is to go to any dealer who sells NFA type stuff and have them explain the process to you.

+1 Just about to suggest that.

[Lumber_Jack]

well technically an M4 is Fully automatic, and those were manufactured after 1986 so No you cant own an M4 BUT you can own an AR-15 with a 10.5 barrel. the only transferrable fully auto guns by law have to have been manufactured and registered before 1986

[Guest Kang]

well technically an M4 is Fully automatic, and those were manufactured after 1986 so No you cant own an M4 BUT you can own an AR-15 with a 10.5 barrel. the only transferrable fully auto guns by law have to have been manufactured and registered before 1986

ok thanks for clearing that up for me.

[~48_South~]

Bottom line you can own what ever you want if you have the money to pay the fees and go through the proper paperwork with the batf some guns you just need to get a dealers license to obtain(which is do able) such M4 or as this one

M134 MINI GUN ,POST SAMPLE, MACHINE GUN : Machine Guns at GunBroker.com

[Guest bkelm18]

Bottom line you can own what ever you want if you have the money to pay the fees and go through the proper paperwork with the batf some guns you just need to get a dealers license to obtain(which is do able) such M4 or as this one

M134 MINI GUN ,POST SAMPLE, MACHINE GUN : Machine Guns at GunBroker.com

Which is really beyond the scope of what the OP was asking.

[Jasongar8]

Bottom line you can own what ever you want if you have the money to pay the fees and go through the proper paperwork with the batf some guns you just need to get a dealers license to obtain(which is do able) such M4 or as this one

M134 MINI GUN ,POST SAMPLE, MACHINE GUN : Machine Guns at GunBroker.com

It is illegal to become a dealer just to buy post sample machine guns to enhance a collection. Please try not to give advice that is illegal.

[SL1M]

Here's the process in a cliff notes form.

1. Buy AR Lower, or use existing.

2. Get a Form 1, from here.

3. Fill it out.

4. Take it to your local Sheriff's Office, for the Sheriff to sign.

5. While there, get (2 sets) fingerprinted on FBI Form FD-258 Fingerprint Card.

6. Mail off to ATF(address on form) and fingerprint cards with $200 dollar check/MO.

7. Sit and wait, it will be the longest wait in your life, MAYBE.

[peejman]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want an AR with a 10.5" barrel? Seems like the accuracy and muzzle energy would suffer greatly and the muzzle blast would be unpleasant.

If the answer is "because I can", that's fine. I simply wonder if there's some value to it that I'm missing.

[molonlabetn]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want an AR with a 10.5" barrel? Seems like the accuracy and muzzle energy would suffer greatly and the muzzle blast would be unpleasant.

If the answer is "because I can", that's fine. I simply wonder if there's some value to it that I'm missing.

Accuracy won't really be affected... in some cases a shorter barrel is actually more rigid and has greater accuracy potential, where it would suffer is in the range, since the muzzle velocity of the projectile would be lower (for .223/5.56 you lose approx 50fps per 2"). The muzzle blast is an easy fix... get a suppressor that's what I did, and now my suppressed AR is still shorter than a 16" gun even with the suppressor installed, and it is quiet enough to be hearing safe without earplugs/muffs (or, in other words, great for home defense without going deaf). Without the suppressor installed, the gun is wonderfully light and handy... would be great for use in a vehicle or in tight quarters, or just for having to carry around without getting too heavy.

[Magiccarpetrides]

It is illegal to become a dealer just to buy post sample machine guns to enhance a collection. Please try not to give advice that is illegal.

The Class III fee is only $3,000 (per year).....who's to say you wouldnt also sell a few guns to be able to afford to enhance said collection

[Jasongar8]

The Class III fee is only $3,000 (per year).....who's to say you wouldnt also sell a few guns to be able to afford to enhance said collection

Yea sell 3 guns all year but buy $50k worth of post samples . They are going to know whats up. I have told you that it is illegal to become a dealer just to enhance your collection in any way. What dont you understand about that? Dont push this issue any further.

[9teeneleven]

From what I've read, once you get shorter than 14" with 5.56 you get ice pick holes. The .223 bullet loses its only advantage, speed. If you are going to get a short barreled upper, then I would seriously look a 6.8. Much better ballistics in shorter barrels. The ammo will cost more, but the upper will be about the same.

[molonlabetn]

From what I've read, once you get shorter than 14" with 5.56 you get ice pick holes. The .223 bullet loses its only advantage, speed. If you are going to get a short barreled upper, then I would seriously look a 6.8. Much better ballistics in shorter barrels. The ammo will cost more, but the upper will be about the same.

Depends on the loads you use... with a 1-in-7" twist barrel you can run 69-77gr hpbt loads which penetrate and fragment nicely even down to 2200-2400fps.

I am personally planning to do a few tests with 3-4 loads I am considering to buy in bulk, in gelatin, from my 10.5" barrel and suppressor. 60gr VMax, 62gr Soft-Point, 69gr and 77gr HPBT. I just have to get the time (and build a mold for the gelatin).

[Guest mgjohn]

If you already have an AR all you need to do is file the correct paperwork w/ fingerprint cards, pay the tax and wait for approval. Then you can legally purchase the barrel or upper you want and put it on.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Stop being a bully, "enhance collection" could mean 1 item it's relative, I say go for it Magic.

We need more people in this business that know what there talking about and will talk openly. Not just turn your arm and tell you to Shut Up, What a punk.

Thanks for the support....that being said...I dont think Jason is a punk hes just trying to watch over the people that might not realize what I said was more "tongue in cheek". I think most people that have $50,000 to blow on MG's wouldnt mention it on an open forum anyways...that being said....im sure the ATF is too busy worrying about real idiots like Cavalry Arms to bother people increasing a legal collection.

[quesogrande]

Thanks for the support....that being said...I dont think Jason is a punk hes just trying to watch over the people that might not realize what I said was more "tongue in cheek". I think most people that have $50,000 to blow on MG's wouldnt mention it on an open forum anyways...that being said....im sure the ATF is too busy worrying about real idiots like Cavalry Arms to bother people increasing a legal collection.

Ok if your looking at it that way I'll just calm down. I have been bullied by the Moderator before and i don't like it when it happens to others. You cant really stand up for yourself on the forum, because they will threaten you. I will take to opportunity to help other anyway I can. Good luck Magic

[Jasongar8]

Ok if your looking at it that way I'll just calm down. I have been bullied by the Moderator before and i don't like it when it happens to others. You cant really stand up for yourself on the forum, because they will threaten you. I will take to opportunity to help other anyway I can. Good luck Magic

If either of you feel that I am being a "bully" please pm and let me know in what way. TGO is NOT the place to discuss illegal activities. Which becoming a dealer just to buy post samples is.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Jasongar8