Took the HCP Class Today...

[Guest sammyboy]

I can see your point of view. And even if I couldn't understand where u'r coming from... I'll stop short of requing a government fee so that you can express it.

;-)

[sparksjr]

lol, well glad we could get that worked out...happy shooting

[CrazyRay]

If you take the class maybe you will understand what I mean.

I have taken the class, thanks.

[sparksjr]

I have taken the class, thanks.

anytime.

[CrazyRay]

Personally, I think we should take a cue card from the liberals, and combat "sex education" in schools with gun education in schools.

Teach all children what a gun is, how it works, and what it can do. Remove the mystery from guns.

Then there is no need for a silly adult HCP class, right?

[CrazyRay]

anytime.

So do you not want to answer my question as to why you think there should be further restrictions on our God given rights?

[sparksjr]

Personally, I think we should take a cue card from the liberals, and combat "sex education" in schools with gun education in schools.

Teach all children what a gun is, how it works, and what it can do. Remove the mystery from guns.

Then there is no need for a silly adult HCP class, right?

Cant argue with that. Not sure it will ever happen but I'd vote for it...lol

And in it's current state, the HCP class is "silly"...thats what I've been getting at.

[sparksjr]

So do you not want to answer my question as to why you think there should be further restrictions on our God given rights?

You said you took the class? You dont think it was too easy? I'm not talking about restrictions, those are all those yes and no checkboxes on the application, the blasted fees are too high as well. I'm talking about education, shooting skills and responsibility.

[CrazyRay]

I agree it was easy. I think it should be easier... no - scratch that, non-existent.

[sparksjr]

I agree it was easy. I think it should be easier... no - scratch that, non-existent.

EDIT...now that I think about it, there has to be something to make sure the person is competent enough to carry a gun, so how about a free class and no applicatin fee (wishful thinking) rather than the complete absense of a class?

Edited February 22, 2010 by sparksjr

[CrazyRay]

EDIT...now that I think about it, there has to be something to make sure the person is competent enough to carry a gun, so how about a free class and no applicatin fee (wishful thinking) rather than the complete absense of a class?

Whether I agree or not about competency - what Constitutional grounds do you have for the government having that power to determine said competency?

[sparksjr]

It seems you want anyone who wants to carry a gun to be able to do so anywhere and at anytime without any training, education or qualification requirements. By anyone I mean any age, regardless of criminal record, legal or illegal immigrant, drug and alcohol addicts and they can carry into courthouses, schools, government buildings and nightclubs to name a few.

[Superman]

Yes more eduction and training should be involved. But that is up to you to get it, a little thing called personal responsibility. I don't need or want the government telling me what to do. And you keep calling this a privilege, the right to self defense is not a privilege it is a right.

EDIT...now that I think about it, there has to be something to make sure the person is competent enough to carry a gun, so how about a free class and no applicatin fee (wishful thinking) rather than the complete absense of a class?

I believe there is about 12 states that require nothing for citizens to open carry. And then you have states like Alaska and vermont that allow concealed carry with no requirements. And I believe the age to carry in these states is 18, not 21 like here.

[CrazyRay]

It seems you want anyone who wants to carry a gun to be able to do so anywhere and at anytime without any training, education or qualification requirements. By anyone I mean any age, regardless of criminal record, legal or illegal immigrant, drug and alcohol addicts and they can carry into courthouses, schools, government buildings and nightclubs to name a few.

You avoided the question again.

[sparksjr]

Yes more eduction and training should be involved. But that is up to you to get it, a little thing called personal responsibility. I don't need or want the government telling me what to do. And you keep calling this a privilege, the right to self defense is not a privilege it is a right.

I agree 100% on the personal responsibility, but I would guess a handfull of those in each class will not continue to educate themselves on gun safety and take additional range time. As pointed out by another member I called it a priviledge and then called it a right, which I later conceded to the confusion shown by my remarks. Whether its a right or priviledge will be an endless argument.

I believe there is about 12 states that require nothing for citizens to open carry. And then you have states like Alaska and vermont that allow concealed carry with no requirements. And I believe the age to carry in these states is 18, not 21 like here.

I know what you mean, but in taking it to the extreme at the very least a state requires a minimum age. In going with Rays argument, they dont even have the right to regulate a legal age. Do those 12 states allow folks to carry anywhere? Do they give permits to convicted felons? Even still the federal goverment keeps them out of federal buildings not matter what state.

I'm not saying I have the answers, but the government will always regulate carry permit laws in some manner.

[sparksjr]

You avoided the question again.

ha. what constitutional right does the government have to regulate who can carry a gun in public? my answer is hell if I know. they do have the obligation to protect the citizens of the United States and I dont think allowing anyone and everyone to carry guns when and wherever they want to is really a good idea.

I assume you do?

[Superman]

In the 12 states there is no permit to OC and in Alaska and Vermont there is no permit required to CC. Can they carry anywhere, probably not but I bet they can carry to more places we can, like colleges and restaurants.

[CrazyRay]

ha. what constitutional right does the government have to regulate who can carry a gun in public? my answer is hell if I know. they do have the obligation to protect the citizens of the United States and I dont think allowing anyone and everyone to carry guns when and wherever they want to is really a good idea.

I assume you do?

You did it again (that whole "not answer, and ask me a question instead").

[sparksjr]

ha. what constitutional right does the government have to regulate who can carry a gun in public? my answer is hell if I know. they do have the obligation to protect the citizens of the United States and I dont think allowing anyone and everyone to carry guns when and wherever they want to is really a good idea.

I assume you do?

You did it again (that whole "not answer, and ask me a question instead").

see bold

[Superman]

ha. what constitutional right does the government have to regulate who can carry a gun in public? my answer is hell if I know. they do have the obligation to protect the citizens of the United States and I dont think allowing anyone and everyone to carry guns when and wherever they want to is really a good idea.

I assume you do?

Why not? You do realize the only people that obey gun control laws are law abiding citizens. If it is illegal to carry a gun somewhere, is that going to stop a criminal from taking a gun in there? No, it will stop you and me the law abiding citizen. The criminal will take the gun and rob the place or shoot someone, but if you and me were allowed to carry there maybe that saves our life or someone elses.

[NextExit]

I learned a few things in the class but I think it could be narrowed down to about an hour. Here's my course outline: 1) Go to class and get issued a copy of "TN Handgun Permit Reference Guide." 2) Go out on range and show you can safely handle a gun and hit your target. 3) Thank you, drive thru. Yeah, I know, it will never happen...

[sparksjr]

Why not? You do realize the only people that obey gun control laws are law abiding citizens. If it is illegal to carry a gun somewhere, is that going to stop a criminal from taking a gun in there? No, it will stop you and me the law abiding citizen. The criminal will take the gun and rob the place or shoot someone, but if you and me were allowed to carry there maybe that saves our life or someone elses.

I understand that. Do you think it is a good idea to have a school full of 6th graders carrying 22 pistols to class? Or to let recovering alcoholics or convicted DUI offenders carrying handguns into bars and nightclubs is a good idea?

Of course, this is extreme, but to not allow this would be regulation by the government. You cant say (not you specifically Superman) that you dont want government to intervene, but then say the government should keep 6th graders from carrying in school.

[Superman]

No that wouldn't be a good idea. This is where that personal responsibility comes into play. Would you let your 6th grader take a 22 pistol to school? And just because there is a law saying that you can't take a gun into a bar isn't going to stop the drunk from having one and shooting you with it, it will only stop you from having a gun to defend yourself when the drunk pulls the gun and shoots you.

My point is gun control laws only handicap innocent people from protecting themselves.

[Wingshooter]

I understand that. Do you think it is a good idea to have a school full of 6th graders carrying 22 pistols to class? Or to let recovering alcoholics or convicted DUI offenders carrying handguns into bars and nightclubs is a good idea?

Of course, this is extreme, but to not allow this would be regulation by the government. You cant say (not you specifically Superman) that you dont want government to intervene, but then say the government should keep 6th graders from carrying in school.

You get your rights at 18 (can't vote until then either). Nobody wants 6th graders going to class with a .22; although, I am taking my 2nd grader to the range tomorrow afternoon. He's excited.

As far as the class goes, it is really to touch on what not to do and basic gun safety.

[Guest sammyboy]

Do you think it is a good idea to have a school full of 6th graders carrying 22 pistols to class?

Yet the state has deemed it perfectly reasonable to put a 9th grader behind the wheel of a 3000 pound piece of metal moving at 75 miles per hour.

If the government wants to require basic education on gun safety... FINE. But do it as part of the normal mandated secondary education curriculum. Or allow the mandated fees for the HCP course and registration to be used as a tax credit.