125 gr vs 158 gr

[Guest Jamesmb]

I got my Lee Loader today. Do I really need calipers? Does it have to be that accurate the length? I am using 357 shells. All over the Lee Loader instructions it says "TO AVOID CONTACT WITH THE PRIMER AND POSSIBLE EXPLOSION, THE CARTRIDGE MUST BE IN THE DECAPPING CHAMBER." The "EXPLOSION" part caught my eye. What have I gotten into?

[Mike.357]

Calm down, lol

the loader comes with step by step explicit instructions. In lieu of those do this.

De-prime all the cases you are going to reload.

Resize and reprime all the cases.

Once these steps are done go ahead with the rest of it.

Keep powder away from primers until you are done re-priming. It is possible to set off a primer in the priming stage, that is why I do it in seperate steps.

And as for a caliper I suppose it can be done without one but I like to be sure of the overall length I am making. You can get one for a few bucks or a digital one for a few dollars more.

And keep it simple at first. Make 1 cartridge. Then make 5 of them, then do the rest of the 50. It will help you get a feel for it.

[musicman]

Eh.... I have digital calipers, but really only use them for my semi-auto stuff, where OAL is important for feeding, and to keep pressures in check on warmer loads (ie: anything in 40 S&W)

For normal/milder revolver loads, as long as the darn thing chambers I'm happy. =) Most of the bullets you'll use have crimp grooves anyways, so that takes care of figuring out how far to seat the bullet in the case. I assume you are starting with lighter loads, and beginning with the "starting charge" weights of powder? If so, I would just go ahead and load 'em up.

I think calipers are great and handy to have around for light/mild revolver loads... and definitely a necessity for any semi-auto loads, and hot revolver loads as well.

Did I make that sufficiently muddy for you?

Anyways, congratulations on the new venture, and keep us posted on how it works out... oh yea, TAKE PICTURES!!!

[Guest Jamesmb]

I went to Gander Mountian, Bass Pro and Lowes and nobody had any calipers or brass. Found these in the basement if I can figure how to measure with em.

All I can do so far is drink that Coke.

Those are 38 Special +P casings by the way.

[Mike.357]

you would get a caliper at a hardware store or Harbor Freight has them. after looking closer at your pics it seems the caliper you have ought to work.

brass you might need to order off the internet or just save the brass you get from

store bought rounds.

Be careful loading .38's as the recipes are different from .357 mags. I am not sure but i do not think you want to use magnum primers in .38's either.

[Guest Jamesmb]

I cant figure out how to work my micrometer caliper I cant seem to get in closer then an inch, but maybe that dont matter since if all I have to measure is the shell, they should be longer then that. I went and found Harbor Freight today and bought some Utility calipers not sure if they are precise enough. They were just $1.99 which is alot less then the dial calipers I saw at Northern tool which were $24.99. Shot 50 rounds today of the S & B mags at Coal Creek Armory and the man said I was there such a short time, he did not charge me the range fee which I thought was very nice of him, first time that has happened. These S & B mags were make in the Czech Repulic hope they can be used with this kit. It mentioned something about foreign shells if they have two holes once you remove the primer, can not be used with the Lee Loader.

[Guest bkelm18]

I cant figure out how to work my micrometer caliper I cant seem to get in closer then an inch, but maybe that dont matter since if all I have to measure is the shell, they should be longer then that. I went and found Harbor Freight today and bought some Utility calipers not sure if they are precise enough. They were just $1.99 which is alot less then the dial calipers I saw an Northern tool which were $24.99. Shot 50 rounds today of the S & B mags at Coal Creek Armory and the man said I was there such a short time, he did not charge me the range fee which I thought was very nice of him, first time that has happened. These S & B mags were make in the Czech Repulic hope they can be used with this kit. It mentioned something about foreign shells if they have two holes once you remove the primer, can be used with the Lee Loader.

Most of the folks at Coal Creek are really nice. One guy is kind of a d*ck but oh well.

[Mike.357]

S&B casings are reloadable. Don't know what utility calipers are. The one I use came from Harbor Freight and cost about $15.

Just take you time and follow the instructions, you will do fine.

Keep the powder sealed up while seating primers though.

Just thought of something. Have you bought case lube? I have seen no mention of it from you.

[Guest Jamesmb]

Funny you mention that. I just deprimed 50 rounds of the S & B brass and primed one of them, now I can not get the bullet in. I wanted to try it first before I put any gun powder in there. I just got through talking with http://www.zerobullets.com/index.htm and they said I should get a sizing tool because not all the brass are alike but depending how they were loaded and not. I used the flare tool but that only opens up the very first of the hole. She said, the owner of Zero, not to use WD-40 whatever I do. She said the would kill the powder. Also I think I should have used candle wax because the case was rather hard getting in and out of the die when I put in the primer. Is the case lube your talking about for inside or outside or what? Stuck again. Can you give me a call Mike? 573-4189

[Marswolf]

Candle wax? I guess it might work.

The lube is for the dies to work properly. But some dies don't need it. Normally chromium plated dies. It really is worth buying top-of-the-line dies.

Regardless, please keep all oils, including especially WD-40 away from any ammo. It will kill the primers unless you take steps to prevent it.

[Marswolf]

Oh yeah, sizing dies....

Neck sizing does have use where you will be shooting the same gun. In a sense, the detonation sizes the brass for your particular weapon and that can mean more accuracy if you only use a neck sizing die. Might want to do a case trim though.

If you use several weapons in that caliber then the full sizing die is the way to go.

[Mike.357]

James you need a commercially available case lube such as "Unique" which is available at Gander Mtn.

Candle wax is not going to work properly and WD 40 is not a case lube but a water displacer.

[Marswolf]

and WD 40 is not a case lube but a water displacer.

And it becomes sticky gunk that will kill primers. My rule is to keep WD-40 at least 20 yards from any ammo.

[Mike.357]

James, I left a message on your phone.

[Guest Jamesmb]

If I go under the MIN OAL is that ok since I am not working at max loads? I think my first try here is something like 1 9/16 or 1.5625. They didnt have any Unique case lube Mike. They are just about out of everything. I bought some of the spray stuff since that was all they had left. I guess Christmas must have wiped them out, their stock.

Mine is on the left. Right a Remmington.

[Mike.357]

Any case lube will work fine I guess. I am sure you noticed the difference on getting the casing in and out of the die.

I think the length you are at is fine, you are under maximum by a couple of hundreths so it should be no problem. My .357's are always under max length too.

Don't be using that steel headed hammer for anything. The wooden mallet ought to be enough for doing this. You definitely do not want anything sparking while you have powder around.

[Guest Jamesmb]

Well I only have done the one bullet so far and that one I put candle wax on first which did not help any. On the Lee Chart that came with the loader it also has a MIN OAL, I guess if your overall is too short then you might have problems? Or pressure would be different? The chart depending on grain and brand of bullet varies in MIN OAL of 1.575 and 1.585 with the Maximum OAL is 1.590. That is a very narrow acceptable range, I ordered some digital calipers because dont think I can get that accurate with these.

At first I made the bullet longer but then tried to crimp, not sure if it ever did, then I decided to get shorter OAL, I was about about 1.6 then, but was able to get down further, so must ahve not have been crimped. I was using the metal hammer since this rubber mallet is just not hard enough, wasnt even thinking of sparking:panic:thanks for the tip. Think I will hold off on doing more till my calipers and bullet puller get here from Midway.

[Marswolf]

Yeah, it can be dangerous seating the bullet too deeply in the case. That tends to lead to higher pressure, which can be dangerous.

I load my 308s longer than the max OAL. That's because I load them specifically for my Remington 700 and get greater accuracy that way. But you have to be careful loading that way or you can also get dangerous pressure spikes.

[Mike.357]

I just measured some of my .357's.

I checked store bought 158 gr.Hydra Shoks and they were 1.559 in length.

Ones I have made were in between 1.570 and 1.586. The majority of the ones I just checked were right around 1.580.

My loader makes no mention of minimum overal length, just max. I think the one you made is fine but I would try to get it a tenth or so longer. Should be easy enough to do.

You may need a different mallet of the one you are using seems insufficient.

I got one from Harbor Freight for about 6 bucks I think. It has a metal handle and a two sided head. One side is rubber the other is some kind of plastic.

[Guest Jamesmb]

Maybe I am reading this table wrong, but the column to the farthest right says Min OAL I think. This came from the Lee Loader so you should have the samething. If you look at the 158grain bullets they vary from MIN OALs of 1.575 to 1.590 inch lengths, which to me is a narrow range, and the later leaves no tolerance at all since the MIN and MAX would be 1.590 inch long.

Maybe when I get my digital calipers I will be able to safely measure. Also on the bottom of the chart says With NEVER EXCEED Loads maintain MIN OAL or longer, so as long as I am below the maximum load I will be ok with a shorter MIN OAL?

Now on this chart it shows the Maximum overall length being 1.590

What I am using is the AAN9 info however I am using a jacketed bullet where as this charts only shows AAN9 info for a lead bullet in the 158gr. Not sure how much difference this makes in the calculated velocity.

[Mike.357]

My loader data makes no mention of minimum length. I try to stay at about 1.2580 and for the most part I am near it every time.

Your loads are well below the max so you will be fine at the length I have mentioned.

I believe a jacketed bullet builds less pressure than a non jacketed bullet.

[musicman]

I may be wrong here, but I was under the assumption that jacketed loads built MORE pressure, as copper is harder to shove down a barrell than the normally softer lead in most non-jacketed rounds.

[Marswolf]

I think we are getting some confusion as to case length and OAL. According to my Sierra manual, case length should be 1.250" and Maximum OAL is 1.590. For all the rounds they show, COAL should be 1.585.

Once the bullets get moving and are part way down the barrel, the pressures aren't that much of a concern, as you have more volume (area) to dissipate that pressure.

BTW, I find that the Sierra accuracy or hunting load is normally the right one for a given powder. Only thing I've changed for the Remington is the OAL to compensate for the long Remington chamber.

If you don't have a Sierra Reloading Manual, buy one.

[Mike.357]

I am following you Mars.

The one round James made is a little shorter than I make them but not to the point of being unsafe. He could go a little longer and that is easy enough to do by a simple adjustment of the bullet seater.

I prefer to stick with less than fully loaded cartridges as I only roll my own for range blasting, targets and what not. No sense pushing things to extremes for that use.

Anything I am carrying has store bought JHP's only.

The loads James is going to make are also well below maximum for the powder he is using. We got that straight over the phone last night.

[Marswolf]

I also only use factory loads for my duty/carry weapons.

Unfortunately, I really don't have time to do plinking rounds. I just shop around for the best deals.

But yeah, bullet seating depths are adjustable when reloading. Just keep twisting the knob until it gets right, then lock it down.