125 gr vs 158 gr

[Guest Jamesmb]

Hi,

I took my old model 19-3 Smith & Wesson to the outdoor range today and shot some 158 gr blazers through it. I just bought some 125 gr Remingtion and wondering I would be able to tell any difference. I have read debates about some loads or grains of 357 magnums are too much for a K frame, just wondering if these would be ok. Yesterday I couldn't even get the blazers in far enough to close the cylinder. Had to use a larger brush for a 40 to 45 caliber and clean for sometime with bore cleaner to be able to fit them in. I guess shooting of alot fo 38's does that.

[molonlabetn]

Blazer .357magnums are loaded pretty light... I'd expect noticably more recoil and flatter trajectory.

[musicman]

First, as for shooting a lot of 38s in a 357, you are right, ALWAYS CLEAN THE CYLINDER BEFORE SHOOTING 357s!! All that crud can lead to higher pressures and difficult extraction.

The things you've been hearing about shooting magnums in a K frame are generally in regards to the 125gr full house mags wearing heavily on the forcing cone which has a little extra shaved off to fit the cylinder. The cone right there has been known to crack. The 158gr and up bullets are usually considered fine.

Happy shooting!

[Guest Jamesmb]

First, as for shooting a lot of 38s in a 357, you are right, ALWAYS CLEAN THE CYLINDER BEFORE SHOOTING 357s!! All that crud can lead to higher pressures and difficult extraction.

The things you've been hearing about shooting magnums in a K frame are generally in regards to the 125gr full house mags wearing heavily on the forcing cone which has a little extra shaved off to fit the cylinder. The cone right there has been known to crack. The 158gr and up bullets are usually considered fine.

Happy shooting!

You think I should take the 100 rounds of 125gr I bought back to WalMart then, or is that not enough to screw up my gun. Thanks.

[Guest Boomhower]

You think I should take the 100 rounds of 125gr I bought back to WalMart then, or is that not enough to screw up my gun. Thanks.

I believe that Walmart has a no return policy on ammunition.

[Guest Jamesmb]

Your probably right. After looking as several places that sell ammo, they all had a do not return policy on ammo. Anybody want to buy them?

[The Rabbi]

Your probably right. After looking as several places that sell ammo, they all had a do not return policy on ammo. Anybody want to buy them?

I'll take 'em.

I also have a Model 19 (2 1/2 inch). I find the 125gr loads to kick way too much. I use the heavier bullets and never have issues. I like the Blazer 158gr Gold Dots and have carried them.

I suspect the 125gr load was deemed superior because it had less penetration. I personally will gladly trade less penetration for better shoot-ability (is that a word??).

The k-frame .357 was developed only post war and mainly with the urging of Bill Jordan who pointed out officers don't shoot their guns often enough for the stress to be a problem. Prior to that the only .357s came in N-frames (like the Highway Patrolman). And no one wanted to lug that thing around.

Now Smith has discontinued the .357 k-frame and they are all L-frame guns.

[musicman]

Have you been the owner of that gun for most/all of its life? If so, and if you haven't shot hundreds of 125gr 357s through it, I'd say that one box probably won't hurt it. (a risk, nonetheless)

If it were me (and I've already done this, I have a soft spot for M19s!) I'd just shoot up what you got, then only buy 158gr and up magnums from now on, for that particular gun.

The best solution would be for you to go buy all the 125gr 357s you can find, then immediately locate and purchase a Smith 686 to shoot them all in!

[Guest Jamesmb]

Have you been the owner of that gun for most/all of its life? If so, and if you haven't shot hundreds of 125gr 357s through it, I'd say that one box probably won't hurt it. (a risk, nonetheless)

If it were me (and I've already done this, I have a soft spot for M19s!) I'd just shoot up what you got, then only buy 158gr and up magnums from now on, for that particular gun.

The best solution would be for you to go buy all the 125gr 357s you can find, then immediately locate and purchase a Smith 686 to shoot them all in!

Hi,

I have only owned this 1971 gun for the past month, so I have no idea what the previous owner did with it. Was told by a gunsmith though, he did not see any erosion in the barrel so maybe that is a good sign. Yesterday at the range when shooting the blazers, they went in ok, but I had a hard time ejecting them out. I had to actually bang the ejector rod to get them out so much the range officer came over and examined the gun. So now I am considering a newer gun, maybe a 686 or 620 or 619?

[musicman]

The cases sticking in the gun is not a malfunction of any sort at all, simply crud buildup in the cylinder where the 38s are a little shorter, and the 357s are constricted by the carbon, leading to sticky extraction. The easy way to take care of this is to shoot your 357s first, THEN your 38s. When you get home, clean the gun, then go out and do it again!

It sounds to me like you'd be OK shooting that small qty of 125gr ammo. Also, is your gun in good shape visually? (wear, scratches?) Is it nickel or blue? If it's in good shape and original condition, I'd hold on to that gun! Model 19s are much loved and the values are going up. (If I had the money, I'd be telling you to get rid of that chunk of junk... and I'd help take it off your hands for you!) I've had to sell of quite a few guns in the last few months, but I'm not letting go of any of my 19s!

[Guest Jamesmb]

The cases sticking in the gun is not a malfunction of any sort at all, simply crud buildup in the cylinder where the 38s are a little shorter, and the 357s are constricted by the carbon, leading to sticky extraction. The easy way to take care of this is to shoot your 357s first, THEN your 38s. When you get home, clean the gun, then go out and do it again!

It sounds to me like you'd be OK shooting that small qty of 125gr ammo. Also, is your gun in good shape visually? (wear, scratches?) Is it nickel or blue? If it's in good shape and original condition, I'd hold on to that gun! Model 19s are much loved and the values are going up. (If I had the money, I'd be telling you to get rid of that chunk of junk... and I'd help take it off your hands for you!) I've had to sell of quite a few guns in the last few months, but I'm not letting go of any of my 19s!

Hi

Well I had posted a pic of my gun when I bought October 27th over on thehighroad and it was mocked by a few over there, it has some water damage and pitting on the outside of the barrel and a few other places. The dealer I bought it from said to me it was fine to shoot, I had asked him at least two times about this. It is green dura coat and pach meyer grips. The gunsmith told me the dura coat probably actually protects it from any futher rusting. When I bought it the 357s slid in fine, but then I shot about 300 rounds of 38s through it, thought I had cleaned it out sufficiently, evidentaly not and then really spent some time cleaing it so I could get the 357s back in.

After all this, I am seriously contemplating getting a 629 mountain gun, 44 magnum to shoot. Wonder how much more kick there is? I am trying to sell a cf380 which I regret buying a few weeks ago at a gunshow and will sell this revolver also to pay towards the 44

[Guest Jamesmb]

Well I got out to the range today and shot 39 rounds of the Remmington 125gr mags until the gun just about stuck, almost unable to shoot it anymore. In fact the last load I only fired three shots and barely got the cylinder opened. At the start it seemed fine. Do these bullets give off so much gunpowder or lead or whatever that after 39 rounds is almost imposible too shoot? Or could it be the blast is pushing the cylinder back? The RSO at the range suggested I take off the grip and really clean inside to see if that will help. Really had no problem like I had Tuesday though when I shot the blazers 158gr which I had a very difficult time ejecting from the cylinder once fired. Those were aluminum and these are brass but not sure if that is the difference or not. But the blazers did not cause the cylinder to gum up though.

[DMark]

..... barely got the cylinder opened.....

Check to make sure that your extractor shaft has not become loose (unscrew). That is a common problem that will cause the cylinder to stick and be hard to open.

[The Rabbi]

Actually it sounds like the blast pushed the rest of the gun back and the cylinder was impinged on the forcing cone. This happens. You can take a little off the barrel end. Or my advice: Don't shoot 125gr bullets in the gun! I see no advantage to the load anyway.

[Mike.357]

I don't like the 125 grains either. I think you would be best to follow Rabbi's advise.

Post a pic of the gun here, no wheelgun snobs here to make fun of it.

[The Rabbi]

Post a pic of the gun here, no wheelgun snobs here to make fun of it.

Make fun of it???? Heaven forbid! The ugliest Model 19 outshines the nicest semi.

[Mike.357]

Revolvers are works of art.

Just imagine how great they would be if JMB had invented them.

[The Rabbi]

Revolvers are works of art.

Just imagine how great they would be if JMB had invented them.

They'd shoot 5 rounds instead of 6. They would feed any FMJ you could throw at them reliably. They would regularly group all 5 shots in 6 inches at 25 yards. Later companies would modify them to be accurate and reliable, but would charge $2,000 to do it.

And their fans would swear it was the greatest design ever.

[Guest Jamesmb]

Actually it sounds like the blast pushed the rest of the gun back and the cylinder was impinged on the forcing cone. This happens. You can take a little off the barrel end. Or my advice: Don't shoot 125gr bullets in the gun! I see no advantage to the load anyway.

Hi,

And thanks for the advice. Gander Mountain gunsmith still have the gun, hope its nothing major. How about 158gr? When I shot those blazers they would stick in the cylinder, wonder if brass shells in 158 would do better for not getting stuck. I have 61 rounds of this 125 gr to use up, hate to waste them, but if they are going to tear up the gun, no sense in gambling I guess.

[The Rabbi]

In competition I shoot 158gr Blazer 38 +Ps through mine. For carry I am using the 145gr Speer Gold Dot .357. I never have a problem with sticking. Clean the charge holes thoroughly and dont oil them. Check and make sure there isn't anything funny going on inside, like pitting and the like.

Cases will stick slightly with the shorter extractor rod anyway. The procedure , according to Ed Lovette in The Snubby (a great great book) is to turn the gun barrel facing upwards, spank the extractor rod to eject, turn the gun over and reload.

[Mike.357]

Rabbi I knew you would have a great comeback to my JMB/revolver comment, you did not disappoint! :lol:

My .357mag only has a five round capacity. Maybe JMB got a hold of it!

[The Rabbi]

My .357mag only has a five round capacity. Maybe JMB got a hold of it!

Only if it looks like this:

Note the half-moon front sight, invented by Browning. Also the grips, invented by Browning. Prior to that people held handguns in their teeth. Really!

[Guest Jamesmb]

Thanks

That might be a few of my problems. I leave a light coat of oil, but will keep dried out when I get my gun back. Also this was a used gun and on the outside in places there is some pretty pronounced pitting on the outside of the barrel, some of the handle and trigger guard and the outside of the cylinder. Was told that might be why was dura coated it to help stop further decay. One hole in particular seems to be the worst for getting the shells out and putting fresh ones in if I had not cleaned it well after last use. Been running a next size larger wire brush through them for like a 45 cal gun, bristles wear out in no time and using some oiled patches on patch loops to clean.

For what its worth, here some pics.

So far invested in this revolver is ($249 + nics check at gunshow + sales tax = $282) + (cylinder faced off + cylinde latch fixed + spring where end of ejector rod rests = $49.28) + (rear sight put on = $75) = total of $406.28. If only knew what I was getting into.

[Mike.357]

I do not think I would put any more money into it. For what you have spent you could have gotten something else that looks nicer. I do not know about value of that S&W revolver.

For comparison I bought a used Ruger SP 101 in .357mag for a lot less than what you have into yours.

One of these other guys will be able to tell you if your S&W was worth it.

You going to come to the shoot in December?

[The Rabbi]

I do not think I would put any more money into it. For what you have spent you could have gotten something else that looks nicer. I do not know about value of that S&W revolver.

For comparison I bought a used Ruger SP 101 in .357mag for a lot less than what you have into yours.

One of these other guys will be able to tell you if your S&W was worth it.

You going to come to the shoot in December?

Excuse me, you are speaking about a pinned and recessed Smith Model 19. From the factory it was about as perfect as guns get. A used Ruger SP101 in no way can compare with this Smith. Yes, this one has had a rough life from the look of it. It has been misunderstood. It has been misused.

Given enough love it can again regain it's initial glory and stand tall. What do people spend to recondition an old beater of a mil spec 1911? And at the end of all that they still have second rate. There is nothing second rate about this gun.