Really Glock 19 or Glock 23 please vote

[Smith]

Dont cry if ya get the 19 and ya gotta shoot a bad guy 2-3 times to stop him.

Lol....

Btw, any choice is the right choice when your choosing a Glock!!!

At least he'd have the round to do it with!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Glock 23 vs Glock 19

13 rounds vs 15 rounds

proven stopping power vs proven to not stop someone

ability to convert to another caliber(357sig) vs stuck with 9mm

Ammo cost more vs Whats your freaking life really worth?

I have carried the Glock 23 for more then 15 years on and off duty. IMHO... Its by far the best of the two.

[Guest 10mm4me]

Glock 23 vs Glock 19

13 rounds vs 15 rounds

proven stopping power vs proven to not stop someone

ability to convert to another caliber(357sig) vs stuck with 9mm

Ammo cost more vs Whats your freaking life really worth?

I have carried the Glock 23 for more then 15 years on and off duty. IMHO... Its by far the best of the two.

I do not wanna start controversy, but when was it proven that 9mm won't stop someone, a quality 9mm 124gr JHP,center mass, head, or groin area will kill you dead quick. The only time it is even remotely not completely effective is when using FMJ. But even then, center mass you are probably gonna die. If you still don't feel good use a +P rd, BUT 9MM IS NOT AN INEFFECTIVE ROUND. IT WILL KILL YOU VERY QUICKLY!!!!!

[blahX3]

Both. You'll end up with both eventually

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I do not wanna start controversy, but when was it proven that 9mm won't stop someone, a quality 9mm 124gr JHP,center mass, head, or groin area will kill you dead quick. The only time it is even remotely not completely effective is when using FMJ. But even then, center mass you are probably gonna die. If you still don't feel good use a +P rd, BUT 9MM IS NOT AN INEFFECTIVE ROUND. IT WILL KILL YOU VERY QUICKLY!!!!!

If 9 was better all the law enforcement agencies and special forces would be useing it, fact is they are not. Why, because it has virtually no knockdown power compared to 40 and 45. A 22 can kill.... if your shot placement is sniperistically perfect... in a very stressfull situation. Wanna really train to see if you can make the kind of shot it would take for ... "lights out" with a 9mm? Go run a few miles and then give me a 4in group at 20 yards. That will tell the tale.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Btw... a groin area shot isnt nowhere near..."dead quick". All it does os shatter the pelvic plates which makes the attacker immobile, but isnt lights out by any means. It will stop the attack from an edged or impact weapon but if they have a gun then they will still be able to squeeze a trigger.

[Guest 10mm4me]

If 9 was better all the law enforcement agencies and special forces would be useing it, fact is they are not. Why, because it has virtually no knockdown power compared to 40 and 45. A 22 can kill.... if your shot placement is sniperistically perfect... in a very stressfull situation. Wanna really train to see if you can make the kind of shot it would take for ... "lights out" with a 9mm? Go run a few miles and then give me a 4in group at 20 yards. That will tell the tale.

I am not gonna argue w/ignorance. To the OP, either will be a fine choice, but if you are gonna get a .40 over a 9mm, you might as well get a .45 or a 10mm. The minor differences between a .40 and 9mm don't warrant the costs. .45 or 10mm or .357 SIG does.

[Smith]

If 9 was better all the law enforcement agencies and special forces would be useing it, fact is they are not. Why, because it has virtually no knockdown power compared to 40 and 45. A 22 can kill.... if your shot placement is sniperistically perfect... in a very stressfull situation. Wanna really train to see if you can make the kind of shot it would take for ... "lights out" with a 9mm? Go run a few miles and then give me a 4in group at 20 yards. That will tell the tale.

Kinda like militaries and LE agencies world wide. Including our own military and many LE agencies? If .40 was all that why do some departments use 357 Sig (9mm BTW), .45, 9mm, etc.?

Your comments, on this subject, have been about as informed and helpful as a third nipple.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I am not gonna argue w/ignorance. To the OP, either will be a fine choice, but if you are gonna get a .40 over a 9mm, you might as well get a .45 or a 10mm. The minor differences between a .40 and 9mm don't warrant the costs. .45 or 10mm or .357 SIG does.

So you cant articulate any better response then to call someone else "ignorant" when you called me out and I totally oblitorate your theory. Real mature, I think I made my point at least to anyone with any kind of firearms knowledge.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Kinda like militaries and LE agencies world wide. Including our own military and many LE agencies? If .40 was all that why do some departments use 357 Sig (9mm BTW), .45, 9mm, etc.?

Your comments, on this subject, have been about as informed and helpful as a third nipple.

really, then name an agency that still uses 9mm... no one around here in Tn does, that I recall. And i said special forces, not regular military units that bow to nato.

Dude can you read? i never said 40 was better then 357 or 45, just that it outperforms 9mm with stopping power.

And your saying 357 is the same as 9mm... wow! Same bullet diameter but no where near the same in any other aspect. Kinda like 38 special and .380, same bullet diameter as 9mm but totally different. Although .38 +p gets really close to 9mm. After the Miami massacre law enforcement nationwide decided .38 and 9mm wasnt enough. Im amazed how quick some here with no real knowledge are so quick to attack. I just hope someone else thats educated in these matters gets in here to set yall straight before the lock.

Edited March 3, 2010 by GLOCKMEISTER
too harsh, didnt want to do a eyeroller or call someone ignorant so I toned it down. Dont wanna hurt any sensative feelings!

[PackinMama]

I'm a 20+ year Glock owner and I don't understand why anyone would want a G19, unless 9mm is the only caliber you'll ever want to shoot. If you're fine with just 9mm, then get the G19.

The G23 and G32 are the exact same size as the G19, and with different barrels and mags, you can have a 9mm, .40 s&w, and a .357 sig all in one package. The G23/G32 (and G27/G33 in sub-compact) are the most versatile Glocks made, period. If you'd appreciate the ability to have three different calibers in one package, get the G23 or G32.

Whatever you decide, you really can't go wrong with any Glock......well, except for one chambered in .45 GAP!

[Guest cheez]

If its going to be more of a range gun than a carry piece then I would go with the 19. But if its going to be your EDC then I would go with the 23.

+1 for the simple reason that although the 9mm can get the job done the .40 can do it so much easier.

[Smith]

really, then name an agency that still uses 9mm... no one around here in Tn does, that I recall. And i said special forces, not regular military units that bow to nato.

Dude can you read? i never said 40 was better then 357 or 45, just that it outperforms 9mm with stopping power.

And your saying 357 is the same as 9mm... wow! Same bullet diameter but no where near the same in any other aspect. Kinda like 38 special and .380, same bullet diameter as 9mm but totally different. Although .38 +p gets really close to 9mm. After the Miami massacre law enforcement nationwide decided .38 and 9mm wasnt enough. Im amazed how quick some here with no real knowledge are so quick to attack. I just hope someone else thats educated in these matters gets in here to set yall straight before the lock.

There are plenty of caliber debate threads so no need to dump in the OP's thread when it has nothing to do with his question. There is a reson your beloved Glock sells more G17's and G19's than any other models. There is no wonder bullet or caliber. They all have pluses and minuses. Many a man has been stopped and not stopped by 9mm ......... as well as .40, 357 Sig, .45, etc.

BTW the some +p and +p+ 9mm loads are equal and in some cases have higher velocity than the .357 Sig.

[Hotshot]

I'd recommend a revolver for your 1st handgun. Glock style guns are not for beginners.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

There are plenty of caliber debate threads so no need to dump in the OP's thread when it has nothing to do with his question. There is a reson your beloved Glock sells more G17's and G19's than any other models. There is no wonder bullet or caliber. They all have pluses and minuses. Many a man has been stopped and not stopped by 9mm ......... as well as .40, 357 Sig, .45, etc.

BTW the some +p and +p+ 9mm loads are equal and in some cases have higher velocity than the .357 Sig.

Really, I thought the only main difference in the two guns was... caliber? Thus I dont think im dumping. The op's intention was to get a poll of opinions, I only explained like others in the thread the difference in the two, and why my opinion is what it is. Besides its pretty clear by the poll results quite a few more people like the 19, but it doesnt mean its better.

Besides I didnt start this debate, I was giving my opinion given my credentials and vast experience on the subject. Someone else decided to rudely call me out on my information using words like "ignorant" and comparing my info to .. "a third nipple". These persons obviously wasnt prepared to debate civilized.

Btw, to accurately answer your original question of "Why"... well it goes all the way back to the Vietnam war when the 1st Navy Seal units used an modified and silenced S&W 39/Mark 22 Mod.0 called a "Hush Puppy" to take out attack dogs. The seals quickly realized, like their older British SAS cousins the 9mm round didnt really have the stopping power to take down a man with one shot, so they nicknamed them "Poodle poppers". All this really goes back to WW2 when the Brits and Canadians had their Browning Hi Powers and the GI's were carrying 1911's. The Brits SAS, LRDG's and Special Boat units made the determination they were going to have to shoot the enemy twice in order to stop them, so they decided to initiate what the termed the "double tap" at the begining of a shooting encounter. The GI's didnt have this same problem so many of the Brits decided to carry the 1911 instead.

On the other point velocity doesnt equal stopping power. And no matter how hot you load a 9mm case it will never equal the velocity of a 357 sig loaded to its max with the same bullet.

Also while the Glock 9mm's have sold more then the 40cal's in Glock, it isnt because its a better caliber, its because the 9mm's had a 10 year jump between 1980-1990 on the 40cal. Now the best selling glocks, especially for law enforcement, are by far the 40's... specifically the Glock 22.

Fact is the Glock 22,23,24,27 were considered improved models over the Glock 17,19,26 and 17L. If they werent then why build them?

Heres a link with articles, including local references, proving its not only my theory but Law Enforcement in general.

The Glock 22: America's best-selling police pistol | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

If you still cant see the light, well hell contact the source...

GLOCK INC.

600 HIGHLANDS PARKWAY, SMYRNA, GA 30082

(770) 432-1202, WWW.GLOCK.COM

;-)

Edited March 3, 2010 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Hgunner]

The caliber debates rage on, this storm has been going on as long

as I can remember and still going strong for atleast 25 years.

I'll tell you a few things I've learned over the years.

1. There is no magic gun

2. There is no magic caliber

3. There is no magic bullet

4. The best gun to have when you need one is the one you have with you.

To the OP if your heart is set on a Glock, get the one you want, your

paying for it.

[Guest LieutenantDan67]

Easy guys, let's keep this informative and friendly.

My highest recommendation is to go to a range and shoot both of these FIRST. Then buy whichever one you can shoot better.

Shooting a .40 badly is not better than shooting a 9mm more accurately, or vice versa.

The extra stopping power of the .40 doesn't help if you're not on target.

Having said all that, I didn't notice a big difference in .40 and 9mm. I own a 19 and love it, but I'd probably get a 23 if I were to do over. I can shoot both about the same.

[Guest 10mm4me]

Just get both. But seriously, if you want stopping power, get a .45 or 10mm, If not just get a 9mm. It is way cheaper to shoot and will get the job done if you ever need it. Which, statistically speaking, you prob never will.

[molonlabetn]

Not sure how this became a caliber war... but just to set the record straight, 9mm, .40, .357sig, 10mm, and .45acp ALL achieve mid-90% one-shot-stop stats, using modern hollowpoint loads, and ALL of them are capable of pushing an expanded JHP to 12-16" of penetration in gelatin, with the proper choice of bullet. There isn't even close to enough difference in power between the weakest 9mm load and a hot 10mm or .45 load which can make up for bad shot placement.

With that said, let's all try to not direct insults at one another, whether or not we disagree... unless one has actually used and compared each of these calibers 'for real', then we're equally ignorant... but never accuse someone of ignorance, whose experience you know nothing about.

Edited March 3, 2010 by molonlabetn

[Guest RangeMstr]

There is an old axiom that dictates "never go to a gunfight with any handgun whose caliber does not start with a 4".

My input would be that although you lose a couple of rounds in the mag, the .40 has a proven track record. The 9mm, while it's been around forever, does have some ballistic challenges. If you are a good, practiced combat shooter it really doesn't matter what you carry. Even then, I would still suggest the heavier .40 caliber.

Did I mention another old axiom...."The purpose of a handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have set down in the first place".

[RWF]

I'd recommend a revolver for your 1st handgun. Glock style guns are not for beginners.

we agree. they are easy to shoot and maintain, but will stove pipe easy with a new shooter. the wife could not shoot one or my youngest for about a year. the xd would never stove pipe. but she hates it.

just be sure to keep your finger out of the trigger guard. have fun.

[Guest Orionsic]

Buy what feels comfortable to you in discretion of what you'll use it for, not based apon other people's opinons.

[JReedEsq]

I'm no ballistics expert so I'm not going to argue about whether the very slightly hole of a .40 is worth carring two less rounds. As a new shooter cheaper practice ammo is more important to me. What difference does a slightly larger hole make if I'm not hitting the target well enough?

[Shima]

Looks like the OP went against the majority opinion and bought the 23. Congrats. Hope you enjoy it.