batons?

[Joseg]

Hmm, I might be interested as well, but then again. how about one of the small mallets used on fish? I'm sure I can throw in a rod and reel and some fishing lures..

[Marswolf]

Never bring a baton to a gun fight.

[bteague2]

Just to be sure, you might want to throw a glove in there with it. you know..to dispel suspicions.

Do I smell a TGO softball team forming? We never know when we'll all be together to practice so we have to keep our bats on us at all times.

[Marswolf]

I don't play softball, although I have been known to coach a women's softball team. But I do play baseball.

Can we play in Kingsport?

[SkWaShDeM]

Hockey sticks make better weapons than softball bats. (=

[Fallguy]

But who around here plays hockey?

[SkWaShDeM]

http://web.utk.edu/~icehocky/

The Ice Vols do. But only for the last forty years or so...

There's also the Knoxville Ice Bears, professional hockey, but not NHL.

[Fallguy]

Yes, Yes and the Nashville Predators and the Memphis RiverKings

But have defiently seen much more neighborhood Baseball/Softball games than hockey games.

See the ----> again.

[BimmerFreak]

can I ask on here what you do?i.e. dealer,hcp instructor?

Who is this directed at?

[strickj]

Cruel Hand Luke

[Guest 2HOW]

His signature says what he does, Firearm instructor.

[John Wall]

As one who is credentialed by Tn Dept of Commerce and Insurance to instruct Tactical Baton, I will only train one who has an unarmed or armed guard license.

As I read the laws of the State of Tn, it is illegal for anyone to carry a club or baton with several exceptions.

Under part 13 of Chapter 39, this is a partial list of prohibited weapons, "(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:

39-17-1301. Part definitions. —

(1) “Club” means any instrument that is specially designed, made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument;"

Under Tn Title 39, a person may carry a baton IF,,,,

"39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(1) Was incident to the performance of official duty and pursuant to military regulations in the army, navy, air force, coast guard or marine service of the United States or the Tennessee national guard, or was incident to the performance of official duty in a governmental law enforcement agency or a penal institution;

(8) By a person possessing a club or baton who holds a valid state security guard/officer registration card as a private security guard/officer, issued by the commissioner, AND WHO ALSO has certification that the officer has had training in the use of club or baton that is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons;"

It seems to me that only a person with a guard license from the Tn Dept of Commerce and Insurance AND in possession of a valid certificate issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons may carry a baton.

This is a cut and paste from Tn code, Title 39, under Criminal Offenses. I know of several folks who will train a civilian in the use of a baton. I am not one of them.

Tn has a program available for civilians to carry a handgun. I think a Moderator said "Don't bring a Baton to a gunfight (or knifefight)!

[Fallguy]

Mr. Wall...you stopped reading the code one paragraph too soon. See T.C.A. 39-17-1308(a)(9)

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws

[John Wall]

Dear Fallguy

Paragraph 9 does indeed give the right to carry a club or baton to anyone who has been certified by one authorized to give training. However, the manufacturer of the ASP baton will train you only if you are law or security enforcement. Following the manufacturer's recommendations goes a long way in making your training DEFENSIBLE IN COURT. NOT following the manufacturer's recommendations makes you fair game in court. The following cut and paste is from the ASP training website.

"Each officer completing ASP training will endure the most rigorous curriculum of its type in the world.* This is a program for the street officer. Easy to learn. Effective when used. Defensible in court. ASP techniques are designed to work for all officers, not just those with a high level of physical skill. These are honest techniques. Over a decade of experience has proven that they work on the street, not just in the ideal environment of a classroom or gymnasium. "

Asp will only train Instructors in the Law and Security Enforcement Community.

I will NOT train when the training may not be defensible in court!!!!

There are Bold pilots and Old pilots. There are not many, BOLD, OLD pilots!

[Guest 270win]

There are many other options besides the ASP batons. Maglites can be bought anywhere and can be used for other purposes besides an impact weapon. As others have noted, there's always a baseball game somewhere. I think if you are non law enforcement, it is best to keep it simple, keep a good handgun concealed, and use it only as a last resort. A baton is just something else to have to fool with and be looked at as a weapon at your disposal when a prosecutor reviews your case and decides to go to court or not.

[John Wall]

Dear Razorback

You are a wise man.

Carry your legal sidearm discreetly, practice regularly, practice situational awareness, and take a few courses that teach evasion and escape.

My ongoing personal trainer is Levi Montgomery. This well balanced, pleasant fellow will train you to easily get away from grabs and holds, and to give the offender a most unpleasant surprise if needed. He will take you as far as you care to go. Knowing you can quickly respond to a grab or attack without having "contact panic" is one of the best confidence builders.

The weapon is between your ears. The sidearm is merely a defensive tool, one of several that should be in your toolbox.

[Fallguy]

I agree one probably doesn’t want to carry several defensive weapons on them at the same time. But there may be people that don’t want to carry a lethal weapon (handgun) for defense and may would prefer a LTL weapon such as an expandable baton. Maglites, baseball bats and hockey sticks would be hard to fit into a purse or pocket and a person can not be certifed in there use to legally carry them as a weapon. Also I think there may be HCP holders who might like to be able to carry a baton in to places where a handgun is off limits, but would still like to have something besides their empty hands to help defend themselves.

I also agree situational awareness is a very good thing to practice at all times, armed or not; that your brain is the best weapon you have and that nothing can replace good and constant training.

Mr. Wall as an instructor you have ever right to train or not train whomever you choose, I don’t disagree with that at all. According to Ms. Kathy Bruns at ASP “It is up to the instructor if he/she wants to certify a civilian.” I see nothing on there website that says it is the “manufactures recommendation” that only law enforcement personnel be certified. So I am sure there are other ASP instructors out there and there are also other brands of expandable batons besides ASP if someone is truly interested in legally carrying a baton or club in the state of Tennessee.

[strickj]

i agree with Fallguy

Also I think there may be HCP holders who might like to be able to carry a baton in to places where a handgun is off limits,

I would not mind to have this for myself

[saintsfanbrian]

I was watching a program this weekend on gangs. One of the biggest, "The Hell's Angels" often carried Ball Peen Hammers on their persons. Why? Because there are no laws against carrying one even concealed. Now, TN may be different, but why not just drop one in the car. There is always a valid reason for having one. Should your car become stuck some where you can't get the door open, you need a way to break the glass in order to get out.

[Guest 2HOW]

Hello, John Wall, The baton is a question I posed on another forum. I like your response. It seems after all the dust settled and everyones opinion that the baton, is neither a defensive nor offensive weapon, but the reality is its an instrument to change behavior, as I have witnessed in Germany by the Politzi in dealing with drunk GIs. I deal with lethal force and not having to use lethal force. Not hitting someone with a stick, not carrying a beater to hit someone with because I cant legally shoot them. I know there is a place for this weapon, but not in my life, perhaps a woman or man who will not carry a firearm. That is all well and good, but to sport 1 of these alongside your side arm is a poor choice waiting to happen.

[Guest jcoyle6]

Is that a baton in you pocket or are you just happy to see me?

I suppose I'll just find someone willing to train a civvie and go from there. . . . . Just how much hassle is LEO going to give me for keeping something hard and expandable in my pants?

[molonlabetn]

. . . . . Just how much hassle is LEO going to give me for keeping something hard and expandable in my pants?

That depends on whether or not you pull it out and slap him with it...

[creeky]

Is that a baton in you pocket or are you just happy to see me?

I suppose I'll just find someone willing to train a civvie and go from there. . . . . Just how much hassle is LEO going to give me for keeping something hard and expandable in my pants?

That depends on whether or not you pull it out and slap him with it...

... and if you are both consenting adults.

[BimmerFreak]

Is that a baton in you pocket or are you just happy to see me?

I suppose I'll just find someone willing to train a civvie and go from there. . . . . Just how much hassle is LEO going to give me for keeping something hard and expandable in my pants?

Being the area's ASP Distributor and Training Facility, we are happy to conduct certification for military, civilians, corrections, and LE.

If someone (*paging Eddie) wants to start a feeler thread with poll, we can nail down a few possible training dates.

Disclaimer;

Our training and subsequent certification of TGO members in no way suggests that we advocate or recommend the carry or use of an expandable baton in place of a firearm, common sense, and good situational awareness.

No warranties expressed or implied.

[molonlabetn]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3280