Give me your thoughts..

[SHARPPOINT]

Just looked at the M&P CT 9mm sub. Anyone with any thoughts on them??

Thanks

[Smith]

I really like the M&P, but I prefer the fullsize. The CT is a not worth anything to me. The ones I've seen and used are more of a distraction than a benefit. The thing jumps all over the place. My thinking is that the training that it would take to master a laser would much be better translated to regular training of pistol technique. There are those that have them and use them, but it's just not my cup of tea.

[DavidD]

I also am not a CT kind of guy but hey, that's just me. I do like the ergonomics of the M&P series though.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't expect to use sights at all if I have to Really Shoot my carry gun.

- OS

[TGO David]

I don't expect to use sights at all if I have to Really Shoot my carry gun.

- OS

Another "self defense" myth rears its ugly head.

[Oh Shoot]

Another "self defense" myth rears its ugly head.

Don't believe in point shooting, eh?

I practice it some, first shot from first clearing leather (where you couldn't see your sights if you wanted to).

Two more shots before gun is in position even close to eye level.

Gee...maybe a laser WOULD work.

- OS

[TGO David]

I believe in a soft-sight picture and practice it. The only "point shooting" I do involves a sight picture of some sort the vast majority of the time.

[Oh Shoot]

I believe in a soft-sight picture and practice it. The only "point shooting" I do involves a sight picture of some sort the vast majority of the time.

Well, in short, I believe in using sights when you have the extra second or two to do it.

I just don't count on having those seconds.

But then, I haven't won or lost a gunfight to lend credence to the approach.

- OS

[Guest Republican]

Crimson trace grips do work, but you must admit they are also kind of a fad. I know alot of guys that have them but dont use'm.

Anyways, the M&P line are all great. You cant really go wrong with them. The ct version is pricey though.

[lowbud]

I tried the laser thing. I can never see the damn red dot in the daytime. the only laser I have is on the night stand gun.

not to mention it adds to the bulkiness of the weapon which defeats the purpose for my needs.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Larry Vickers

Pat Rogers

Paul Howe

Scott Reitz

Travis Haley

Tom Givens

Kyle Lamb

The list could go on of real world gunfighters that advocate the use of sights (in some form) in all but contact/near contact engagements.

Is there a place for unsighted fire? Sure, but not that much outside the above statement.

Lasers? Great training aid and some tactical application (think home defender, behind cover/concealment with laser trained on bedroom door).

Then again, the same could be said about your sights...

Alot of top shooters will tell you that they feel laser usage slows them down. I agree. But hey, personal preferrence.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Todd@CIS]

CIS terms and what we teach (very nutshell).

Contact/Near Contact...no sights.

Soft Sight Picture...threat focused, but sights are visible and used in peripheral vision, at eye level.

Hard Sight Picture...traditional front sight focused shooting.

We put heavy emphasis on being able to use and move within the above as the situation (accuracy vs speed) dictates.

[BigPoppa]

IMHO, lasers and laser accessories look tacticool, and have some limited practicality in certain circumstances.

Having said that, I believe for most defensive minded shooters and HCP carriers, the money used for lasers would be better spent on quality training, a top shelf holster, or, and probably more importantly, ammunition for frequent marksmanship practice.

[Oh Shoot]

...of real world gunfighters that advocate the use of sights (in some form) in all but contact/near contact engagements.

Is there a place for unsighted fire? Sure, but not that much outside the above statement....

CIS terms and what we teach (very nutshell).

Contact/Near Contact...no sights...

Perhaps I have delusional perception of the "what ifs", but I pretty much assume that any gun play I'll see (short of EOTWAWKI) will be 10 feet or less, which I do consider "contact/near contact". Even if they start a rush from the proverbial "21 feet", at best I won't be able to react until they're within that shorter distance.

If someone wants to pop me from farther out, I've been targeted for some reason beyond the normal ones of robbery and the like; I admit that I'm not prepared against assassination.

- OS

edit: looking back, belated apologies for the thread derailment. Out of this one.

Edited February 17, 2010 by OhShoot

[Smith]

Larry Vickers

Pat Rogers

Paul Howe

Scott Reitz

Travis Haley

Tom Givens

Kyle Lamb

The list could go on of real world gunfighters that advocate the use of sights (in some form) in all but contact/near contact engagements.

Is there a place for unsighted fire? Sure, but not that much outside the above statement.

Lasers? Great training aid and some tactical application (think home defender, behind cover/concealment with laser trained on bedroom door).

Then again, the same could be said about your sights...

Alot of top shooters will tell you that they feel laser usage slows them down. I agree. But hey, personal preferrence.

How about:

Fairbain

Sykes

Applegate

IDF

The US Military through 2 world wars ........

Fairbain and Sykes alone had far more LE combat than any on the above list and I think the IDF speaks for itself.

Just Sayin!

[Guest CK1]

Think I'm in the middle between OhShoot and TGODavid or leaning more towards TGODavid's point of view on this... While I don't buy that in an SD situation anybody would be really lining up their sights "just so", I think if looking for that front sight is ingrained as muscle memory you're only better off and may be more likely to do it if the time came..

Now, one thing I DO believe in that is all too often overlooked is forcing one's self to learn to shoot with both eyes open... It's amazing to me how many guys I see who can't/won't/don't learn it. It's pretty much a given that under stress you're going to have both of 'em wide open whether you want to or not, so if it's totally alien when the time comes, the sights or no sights argument becomes kind of mute...

As for the M&P's, I've seen lots of them run perfectly through thousands of rounds in other guys hands but I had a broken striker in one and found that it's actually pretty common, also I personally watched 2 jam up at an IDPA match this past weekend (1 became non-functional, most likely a broken striker or trigger spring), but by most accounts they're one of the most reliable guns out there next to a Glock. They're a nice feeling gun in the hand and have excellent ergos, and I find them very easy to shoot well... Their triggers can be made really exceptional with an easy trigger job, however their trigger reset is pretty weak and vague (when compared to a Glock's, which is probably the strongest out there to be fair) and on the longish side, a trigger job can make the reset shorter, but won't really make it any more positive (some guys send them to S&W for a MA trigger bar and heavier MA trigger spring to improve the reset but the one's I've felt, while better, weren't exactly "snappy")... (An LEO in my group who was shooting one to try one out at this past weekend's match short-stroked the trigger on one 2 or 3 times coming from a Metro issued G22 if that matters to you).

Edited February 16, 2010 by CK1

[Magiccarpetrides]

To answer the OP's original question I have an M&P9c...I love the gun but for whatever reason with the factory sights couldnt hit the broad side of a barn. I got some CT's from a fellow tgo'r and havent looked back...the gun is still very compact but now I have confidence that I can quickly hit where I aim. Im a fan of them for this model of gun.

[SHARPPOINT]

Thanks Magic, that's really what I was wanting to hear, did not mean to ask about CT's products. The M&P that I was looking at had the laser grips with it, thought it had a good feel. I have a Kimber with CT but it's not my carry gun, just wanted to know if anybody has or had carried that model and what they thought about it for a carry pistol..